4th Gen Stuck In The Sand
- Thread starter lmlenzen
- Start date
Just a nice reminder of how bad ass the 4th gen's are.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai--
Still doesn't make any sense. Here's the problem:
Regardless of how deep the guy was stuck in the sand the ATRAC still should have provided some power to the left front and right rear wheels. Think about it.....he was stuck in sand. Sand isn't exactly a high friction surface, so the wheels should have been turning at least a little bit.
I still think there was something wrong and his ATRAC wasn't working at all.
Still doesn't make any sense. Here's the problem:
Regardless of how deep the guy was stuck in the sand the ATRAC still should have provided some power to the left front and right rear wheels. Think about it.....he was stuck in sand. Sand isn't exactly a high friction surface, so the wheels should have been turning at least a little bit.
I still think there was something wrong and his ATRAC wasn't working at all.
Even Steven said:
I agree and have never encountered that happening when stuck.
I don't think the Atrac has low limitations at all. The more nasty situations I get in the better I like it over a limited slip ( which it compares closely too IMO ) there are lots of trucks on here that perform some serious off road stuff with Atrac .
What ever the problem there , I think was a lot of driver error also , you don't just keep digging your self a bigger hole , there comes a point where you must realize that , but apparently they did not.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Falls said:
Yes, the driver was pretty much clueless, but that still doesn't explain his 4Runner's total lack of power to the other two wheels. The only thing I can think of is that his ATRAC stopped working because it was overheated and shut off to protect the system. Who knows how long he was trying to get unstuck before they decided to get out and shoot the video?
Thai
Elite Member
What would you guys do differently in his situation?? Granted, he could have tried reversing out sooner. It's not hard to dig yourself in sand, esp. deep sand. So, once he is deep to frame height (aka high center), there is not much that you can do. Yeah, you can find wood panels and so on to put under the tires, but that's it.
It is always easy to criticize someone's driving skills if you're not there and if you looking back (hindsight is always 20/20). You guys make it sound like you've never been stuck in sand before!
The fact that he could reverse out with only two wheels having traction proves that ATRAC was working.
It is always easy to criticize someone's driving skills if you're not there and if you looking back (hindsight is always 20/20). You guys make it sound like you've never been stuck in sand before!
The fact that he could reverse out with only two wheels having traction proves that ATRAC was working.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:
You are totally missing the point. I don't care if the driver was a monkey...and I don't care that he was stuck. I'm simply saying that the other two wheels should have been turning in that situation..... HE WAS ON SAND!!! You can't tell me that ATRAC wouldn't have sent enough power to the two wheels NOT turning when they were only on sand. There's no way the ATRAC was working throughout most of that video. Perhaps he let the system cool down and it started working again as he backed out of the hole. We have no way of knowing the time lapse on the video.
Thai
Elite Member
Even Steven said:
What language are they talking in the video?? Maybe someone can shed some light??
As for missing the point...weren't you guys ragging on this driver's skills??
The passenger rear tire was on a high friction surface...maybe the edge of the road covered in sand? It was a hard surface for sure because it was hard enough to support that wheel, resulting in the other side being suspended in air (until the fat guy jumped on the rear bumper).
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:What language are they talking in the video?? Maybe someone can shed some light??
As for missing the point...weren't you guys ragging on this driver's skills??
The passenger rear tire was on a high friction surface...maybe the edge of the road covered in sand? It was a hard surface for sure because it was hard enough to support that wheel, resulting in the other side being suspended in air (until the fat guy jumped on the rear bumper).
Yes, I said the driver was cluess...if that's what you consider "ragging" on his skills. But still, the point was that two of the wheels were completely dead. That never should be the case if his ATRAC was working. In the video, it appeared as if he was driving a vehicle with open diffs front and rear without any type of limited slip/locker/ATRAC...nothing! I just don't expect to see that from ANY 4th gen 4Runner with 4wd.
As for your theory that the driver's side rear was on a hard surface under the sand....how do you know that his frame wasn't high centered on the sand? Maybe most of the weight was on the frame and not on that wheel at all...
jacal
New member
I believe this is an example of why you need to learn the system before you need it.
I *think* the diff was locked, because of the wheel spin. I do not think the driver was giving enough time or rpm for the system (ATRAC) to kick in and do the work. In each example that I see the wheels start spinning and go wild immediately. It is possible that the driver just kept flooring it each time he "tried". EXCEPT on vid 2 at about 30 seconds in reverse gear. At that time, I think the rpms were in the right band, and he kept on it for the 3ish seconds required for atrac to start it's job.
What he should have done? Given the very limited information, I will still give an opinion: I would suggest that he put it in a gear 1, locked diff, 4Low, then pressed on the gas to get to that 2000-2500rpm sweet spot. Then just keep it steady on the pedal for ATRAC to kick in. If still no success, start moving the wheel side to side to see if they can find any more traction.
I really think that with proper pedal work, he would have been out chop chop. But sand is a different challenge for sure, so who knows.
I have been in many situations where I approach an obstacle, then I need to sit on the pedal just right and wait for the system to get to work, then some wheel(s) find traction and I kind of "lurch". I hate that aspect of the system, because it is hard to then jump on the brake if required (say you are now perched on a rock or similar and wanted to ease down). I find the FJ atrac more refined in the same situations...it kicks in more seamlessly in my opinion.
J
I *think* the diff was locked, because of the wheel spin. I do not think the driver was giving enough time or rpm for the system (ATRAC) to kick in and do the work. In each example that I see the wheels start spinning and go wild immediately. It is possible that the driver just kept flooring it each time he "tried". EXCEPT on vid 2 at about 30 seconds in reverse gear. At that time, I think the rpms were in the right band, and he kept on it for the 3ish seconds required for atrac to start it's job.
What he should have done? Given the very limited information, I will still give an opinion: I would suggest that he put it in a gear 1, locked diff, 4Low, then pressed on the gas to get to that 2000-2500rpm sweet spot. Then just keep it steady on the pedal for ATRAC to kick in. If still no success, start moving the wheel side to side to see if they can find any more traction.
I really think that with proper pedal work, he would have been out chop chop. But sand is a different challenge for sure, so who knows.
I have been in many situations where I approach an obstacle, then I need to sit on the pedal just right and wait for the system to get to work, then some wheel(s) find traction and I kind of "lurch". I hate that aspect of the system, because it is hard to then jump on the brake if required (say you are now perched on a rock or similar and wanted to ease down). I find the FJ atrac more refined in the same situations...it kicks in more seamlessly in my opinion.
J
Thai
Elite Member
Even Steven said:
Read my post(s) again. Even if ATRAC malfunctioned (thus, totally open diff), there should be some wheelspin on the rear passenger tire since, as you theorized, both rear tires are on slippery ground (frame being high centered). From the video, the rear axle seemed to have reached max articulation...this is why the driver's rear tire is hanging in the air because the other side is STUFFED!
Thai
Elite Member
jacal said:
Jacal, good post. You're right that he should give some time for ATRAC/TRAC to work. I am not so sure that it would have helped much because he dug himself pretty bad.
And from past experience with sand, it is easy to get stuck if you lose momentum...trust me, i know...my brother (LR Discovery) and my '02 4runner got stuck once in sand...and i am pretty well-versed in how ATRAC/TRAC works!
How do you know that the driver was not already in 4-LO, diff locked, and in gear 1?? I do not think that being in gear 1 is that important in this type of situation.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:
I disagree. If the ATRAC malfunctioned, both axles would act as open differentials. That said, if ANY difference in traction exists between left and right side tires, the tire with the LEAST amount of traction will get the torque while the other wheel gets none. Have you ever held one of the rear tires on a vehicle with an open rear diff that is on a lift? VERY little pressure is needed to hold one wheel still while the torque is transferred to the other wheel.
It's too bad we'll never know for sure, but I still stand by my theory that the driver was busy overheating his ATRAC before his passengers realized that he was really stuck and got out to shoot the video. I also theorize that he never let the system cool down during the video, virtually rendering his ATRAC completely inoperable. I also think that when he did manage to back out, he must have let the vehicle cool off and his ATRAC become operable, thus allowing his to back out without drama. I just don't see any other explanation.
All the other thoughts are all good and well, but nothing else explains why on earth the right front and left rear tires have zero torque applied. In just about any other situation, we would have seen at least a little movement out of at least one of them!!!
Thai
Elite Member
So, according to your theory, ATRAC/TRAC did in fact work at some point. If so, then how did he get stuck in the first place?? And if it did work initially (before the system went into failsafe mode), then why was he STILL stuck when they shot the video??
You're right though...we may never find out the "real" reason.
You're right though...we may never find out the "real" reason.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:
I can't answer how he got stuck in the first place because the video only shows him already stuck. For all we know, he might have been trying to get stuck to test the limitations of his new 4Runner. Personally, I've tried to get stuck several times in snow, just to see what it would take for that to actually happen. Or maybe he was just screwing around and got unlucky. As you said, it is not difficult to get stuck in sand in the first place. Maybe he had the diff locked, from the beginning, maybe not.
Either way, it seems clear to me that his ATRAC started working just because of the fact that he suddenly put it in reverse and back out of the deep hole that he dug himself into without any drama whatsoever. To me, that seems to almost prove that his ATRAC was working at that point. Do you agree? If so, then how in the world did he manage to sit there for so long spinning two tires without moving at all, unless his ATRAC was completely inoperable in the first video? See my point? It seems that when the ATRAC was functioning, he had no problem getting unstuck.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:
You need to watch the video again. He attempted to reverse many times without success.
E
Even Steven
Guest
BTW, do you really think he dug himself in like that without even attempting to reverse out of the situation? Even a complete fool would try reverse if he couldn't move forward. I'm surprised that you would even suggest such nonsense, Thai.
Thai
Elite Member
Even Steven said:
Yes, he did try initially, but again, i am not sure if he tried long enough. And IF you theory is right, then once ATRAC/TRAC was active again, he should have easily gotten out by moving forward instead of having to reverse himself out like he did, right??!!
In other words, he finally got unstuck by reversing...by chance?? Or is it that his front was sunkened so much that moving forward (even with an active ATRAC/TRAC) was not possible?? His only choice (lesser of two evils) is to back himself out?? And with his rear end (esp. passenger rear tire) on higher (solid?) ground, reversing was the better choice IMHO.I am surprised that you did not read my posts more carefully. BTW, your attitude is getting old, Even Steven. Don't take this discussion personally. If you think that ATRAC/TRAC will get you out of everything, then that is good for you, but from MY off-roading experience, there are limitations to ATRAC/TRAC off-road.
E
Even Steven
Guest
Thai said:
I did answer your question.... I'll reiterate for you:
There's no way to know how he got stuck in the first place because the video starts with him already stuck. Maybe he was trying to test the limitations of his 4Runner and purposely drove into the deep sand. Maybe he drove in without even being in 4wd. Who knows? Who cares. The fact of the matter is that he got himself stuck and his ATRAC seemed to be doing nothing at all to get him out. Now, how could that happen? The only way I see it is that his ATRAC was inoperable (probably from overheating), rendering it useless. When the system cooled off, he was able to get right out without a problem.
Now my question for you:
Explain how he could dig himself in so deeply and then just back right out without a problem if it wasn't related to his ATRAC being inoperable and then operable again.
