4th Gen Warped Rotors

Got the car back on Tuesday and it drives as good as new. Invoice shows they turned all four rotors and replaced the front pads. The rotors weren't far out of spec, so replacement wasn't required. Tires were showing uneven wear, so they also did a four wheel thrust alignment -- about $75. I'm wondering how long it's been out of spec!
 
bryancos said:
Got the car back on Tuesday and it drives as good as new. Invoice shows they turned all four rotors and replaced the front pads. The rotors weren't far out of spec, so replacement wasn't required. Tires were showing uneven wear, so they also did a four wheel thrust alignment -- about $75. I'm wondering how long it's been out of spec!

This seems weird that at 19K miles you would have warped rotors front and rear (I've never had warped rear rotors on any vehicle) and the fact you needed the alignment. Had you rotated your tires in the past? How often? Do you drive your 4runner off road? Do you do a lot of mountain driving where you need to use your brakes a lot going down steep inclines? Do you tow/how heavy? Just trying to understand why you are having these problems?
 
If anything, the PADS are the single most important thing to preventing warped rotors. Coming from a racing background, there are a TREMENDOUS number of different pad compounds out there that have different heat ranges and coefficients of friction. Purchasing cheap 'lifetime' pads is not a good idea because they tend to be hard and eat rotors, thereby making them thinner and leaving a ridge on them. Better quality pads (as far as stopping characteristics go, which is all I care about when it comes to brakes) tend to dust a lot. A byproduct of this is that the heat transfer tends to be less from the pad to the rotor, as the heated pad material is discarded.

Now, as for the term 'warped rotors'.... It is **VERY** uncommon for a rotor to be warped in the sense that it is not truly straight. Most of the time the sensation of 'pulsating' or 'surging' that is felt when applying the brakes is due to pad deposits on the rotor that have been literally baked onto the rotor's surface. Driving style is the single largest cause of this. If you come off of a highway at 70mph, coast for a little bit, then stand on the brakes from 60 to a dead stop for that stoplight at the end of the exit ramp, then stay in that one spot with the EXTREMELY hot pad sitting in one spot on the rotor, you are going to end up depositing pad material on the rotor, which in turn is going to get baked to that one spot. This changes the friction characteristics of that one spot on the rotor, which leads to an uneven amount of friction around the entire surface of that rotor where the pads are pressed against it.

I use the brakes hard, and am cogniscent of the fact that after a hard run or utilizing the brakes from high speed, there will be a tremendous amount of heat built up in the rotors. The simplest solution to this problem is to stop short of where you need to be. I'm not talking about leaving 3 carlengths by any means, but if you stop about 10 feet short of where you need to be, you can VERY slowly creep forward (easy in an automatic) a little bit at a time to keep the hot pads moving around to a different spot on the rotor. This prevents that depositing and 'baking' I explained above. The other option is that if you are not on an incline, shift into neutral and just completely take your foot off of the brake pedal so that the pads once again aren't pressed hard against the rotor surface. If you are lucky, the vehicle will roll slightly forward or backward slowly and will accomplish the same thing as above when I said to creep forward.

By following these guidelines, I have not had a warped rotor in SEVERAL years in any of my vehicles, despite my hard braking tendencies. I've even braked quite hard and come to abrupt stops while towing in my Blazer and have had no problems with rotors warping on that vehicle. Like I said, a lot has to do with knowing your vehicle and being in touch with every aspect of it. I think having more of an engineering based background, I can understand these concepts a bit easier than the average driver on the road, but I stay very in touch with what my vehicles communicate back to me and adjust according so as to make the situation a little 'easier' on the vehicle as much as possible.

Just some things to think about.

Ricky



greasefingers said:
My rotors are just starting to warp. I can feel them shudder, only under hard braking. Otherwise they feel fine. I am going to have them cut at the local auto store and throw on front pads. I never use new pads without having the rotors cut or replacing all together. There is nothing special about brake pads so I will find anyone other than the dealer for these.

I will be very interested to see if the rotors are solid cast iron. This is the cause of many warped rotors. I have a jeep and the rotors have to be replaced every 20 to 30k miles. They use a composite rotor. Cast iron as a core and some other steel on either side. Solid rotors are the same thickness throughout. Composites are stepped and have two different thickness
 
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Exactly... Being hard on brakes doesn't necessarily mean pressing the pedal hard... It can be just the fact that they sit there with their foot on the brake pedal after stopping from highway speeds (even when they slowed down at a 'sane' rate of speed).

Ricky




Bluto said:
I agree/follow 100%. Problem is most people don't think they are hard on brakes.
 
My brakes began warping at about 10k, at 12k I had Toyota replace the front rotors and and pads.

They said that it's because of my larger rims. I told them that since toyota puts out these rims, then it should be covered under warranty. They agreed.

They will start to warp again soon, but when they do, I am going to drilled and slottled rotors, ceramic pad and more than likely stainless stell brake lines.

All of these should decipate heat better.
 
I heard this from my mechanic, if you just finish using the car, you don't want to shot cold water directly on the rotor when you wash the rim/tire. You should let it cool down.
 
Pitbull said:
This seems weird that at 19K miles you would have warped rotors front and rear (I've never had warped rear rotors on any vehicle) and the fact you needed the alignment.
It's not really weird.....you can warp a set of rotors in an afternoon if you want.

I agree/follow 100%. Problem is most people don't think they are hard on brakes.
Exactly
 
Just how do you think stainless steel brake lines will help dissipate heat?? They won't do a single thing except possibly make your pedal feel more firm and require less travel in the brake pedal.

Larger rims might actually help cooling if they are a more open design.

As for slotted/drilled rotors, how do you think those will help? They do ABSOLUTELY nothing to help a car stop better or prevent warping. You end up with less surface area and less material mass in the rotor, which in and of itself leads to problems. The only reason to have drilled/slotted rotors is to help shed water, which is why motorcycles have them, since the rotors are exposed.

For my track car, I still use solid stock rotors that I can pick up at any AutoZone. They work the best out of anything else out there. If they 'warp' or start pulsating, at $18 a piece, they are disposable as far as I'm concerned. After one track event where I've destroyed a whole set of pads, I pretty much replace all expendable brake components (pads and rotors) before the next event.

Ricky




2K34R said:
My brakes began warping at about 10k, at 12k I had Toyota replace the front rotors and and pads.

They said that it's because of my larger rims. I told them that since toyota puts out these rims, then it should be covered under warranty. They agreed.

They will start to warp again soon, but when they do, I am going to drilled and slottled rotors, ceramic pad and more than likely stainless stell brake lines.

All of these should decipate heat better.
 
You know guys this is a non-issue with the 4th generation 4runner. I did a search and this is the only thread that anyone that owned a 4th gen even mentioned having a problem with their rotors. So this is the biggest site on the 4runner and the 4th gen has been out now 3 years and we have one thread with one guy reporting that his rotors are warped and the dealer had to replace all 4 under warranty. Like I stated "NOT AN ISSUE". If it was we would have long threads talking about members having problems. Like on the seats, and moon roof.
 
Pitbull said:
You know guys this is a non-issue with the 4th generation 4runner. I did a search and this is the only thread that anyone that owned a 4th gen even mentioned having a problem with their rotors. So this is the biggest site on the 4runner and the 4th gen has been out now 3 years and we have one thread with one guy reporting that his rotors are warped and the dealer had to replace all 4 under warranty. Like I stated "NOT AN ISSUE". If it was we would have long threads talking about members having problems. Like on the seats, and moon roof.
That's what I was thinking. The 4rth gen 4Runner does not have a rotor warping problem. If you're warping the rotors on your truck, chances are 99% that your driving/braking habits are at fault, not the 4R's braking system.
 
greasefingers said:
Is this not a discussion thread? It is to early to determine if “warped rotors” is an issue or not.

2003, 2004, 2005 = 1 member that had front/rear rotors warp = non-issue. JMHO

Example, I own a 2003 350Z, on the 350Z site we have a thread that is almost 1700 posts long with owners complaining about their front tires feathering prematurely. The thread started in 2003 within 3 months after the new Z hit the street. That's an issue.

This is a one off weird happening that could be caused because the owner lives in the mountains and burns up his brakes or drives like a NASCAR driver. I think it is great to discuss this happening but you can't say that it is a 4th generation 4runner "problem" or even a concern at this point. JMHO
 
I agree that it is not a serious issue. However, you obviously have a choice to read the posts or not. It would be a cheap and fix as well. Personally I am more interested in the sunroof issue. It is more serious, especially for those of us who are past the 30k miles mark. Not exactly a DIY project and can cost $$$$ to have fixed by the dealer.
 
RickyCRX said:
If anything, the PADS are the single most important thing to preventing warped rotors. Coming from a racing background, there are a TREMENDOUS number of different pad compounds out there that have different heat ranges and coefficients of friction. Purchasing cheap 'lifetime' pads is not a good idea because they tend to be hard and eat rotors, thereby making them thinner and leaving a ridge on them. Better quality pads (as far as stopping characteristics go, which is all I care about when it comes to brakes) tend to dust a lot. A byproduct of this is that the heat transfer tends to be less from the pad to the rotor, as the heated pad material is discarded.

RickyCRX,
So what pad do you use/recommend: hard, soft, metallic, dusty? Do you have a preferred brand/style/part#? Not for racing, just the DD.
 
Kmvreter said:
RickyCRX,
So what pad do you use/recommend: hard, soft, metallic, dusty? Do you have a preferred brand/style/part#? Not for racing, just the DD.


Just my 2 cents here,


I spent alot of money on a nice brake set up on my VW and I learned this. Basically unless your racing the car, you really dont NEED cross drilled rotors , racing compound pads etc..... I spend almost a grand on brakes for the car and I think I got 25k before the pads were worn down and the rotors were not turnable because they were cross drilled. Now, some would say that is because of my driving habits... whatever, .... But my point is, if its a race car, buy race brakes, if its daily driver, put on OEM brakes and you will have less headaches. THe gain in braking I got from the set up was soooooooo minimal. I even had super blue racing fluid and stainless steel braided lines. The pedal feel was firmer for the first 10k. The pad wore quickly and I was not impressed with the rotors short life span.

I know a few auto cross guys in the VW crowd, the swear by OEM rotors and a cheap pad like MINTEX for racing. IMHO cross drilled/slotted rotors are more of a "bling Bling" addition to a car. I admit, they look nice, but add to the braking abiltys like a K And N filter adds to the racing ability of a 4 Runner. If there is a gain, its minimal.


Just my past exp. Take it for what its worth...
 
With imports, I have always used OEM pads and rotors. This includes a 78 280Z. The pad and rotors were a small fortune from the dealer for a 20 year old car. But I had zero problems or noise. Only exception was my Acura, OEM pads, Rotora rotors.

Domestics, the local auto parts store has better quality then OEM.


BTW, quality (ie porsche) drilled/slotted rotors are cast 100%. Not blanks drilled/cut on a machine. Anything else is just blang-blang. :nerd:
 
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Toyota 4-Runners have had rotor problems for a long time. I am on my third set of rotors. I changed the original rotors at about 30 - 36k. Then I have replaced the rotors every two years after that. I just include the rotors as normal brake maintenence. From everywhere I have read, the rotors are the weak link. I personally think the rotors are undersized.
 
Koz, Rossmon1, RickyCRX and other contributing members, thanx for sharing your knowledge with other 4R members. I think the tips will help others avoid having warped rotors. Here's a question I have though, last week I inspected my brakes and I noticed that the front rotors appeared to be normal with the smooth grooves. However, the rear rotors appeared perfectly smooth with no grooves whatsoever. Is this normal? I've never seen rotors this smooth. It looks the same from day 1. I have a 13 month old '04 Ltd 4wd w/29k miles (85% hwy, 15% city). Also, the rear brakes squeal alittle in the morning when cold. Are the rear rotors glazed or something? Can someone explain/describe what "glazed" rotors are? Thx n adv!

BTW: I'm an aggressive driver, but I do follow the guidelines you guys have mentioned in earlier posts. I always allow my vehicle to cool down before washing her. I avoid spraying anything on the wheels that might get onto the rotors. After heavy braking, I usually edge the car forward a few inches at a time or put her in neutral and take my foot off the brakes as to not have the pads stay pressed against the same spot on the rotors. I have taken several pics of the front and rear rotors, I'll post them later if I have time.
 
Hank said:
Koz, Rossmon1, RickyCRX and other contributing members, thanx for sharing your knowledge with other 4R members. I think the tips will help others avoid having warped rotors. Here's a question I have though, last week I inspected my brakes and I noticed that the front rotors appeared to be normal with the smooth grooves. However, the rear rotors appeared perfectly smooth with no grooves whatsoever. Is this normal? I've never seen rotors this smooth. It looks the same from day 1. I have a 13 month old '04 Ltd 4wd w/29k miles (85% hwy, 15% city). Also, the rear brakes squeal alittle in the morning when cold. Are the rear rotors glazed or something? Can someone explain/describe what "glazed" rotors are? Thx n adv!

BTW: I'm an aggressive driver, but I do follow the guidelines you guys have mentioned in earlier posts. I always allow my vehicle to cool down before washing her. I avoid spraying anything on the wheels that might get onto the rotors. After heavy braking, I usually edge the car forward a few inches at a time or put her in neutral and take my foot off the brakes as to not have the pads stay pressed against the same spot on the rotors. I have taken several pics of the front and rear rotors, I'll post them later if I have time.
Funny you mention this...I saw the same on mine this last weekend. Was planning to add brakes to the list for the next service trip (should be in a week or two).

I tend to have a light foot for the brakes, so your aggressive driving should bot be an impact on it if we are seeing the same symptoms.
.
 

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