4wd on 4runner & FJC

[SKINUM]

4wd on 4runner & FJC

With the recent snow storm I was able to draw a comparison of a few different vehicles in similar conditions. We got off easy with only around 14 inches of snow.

I had a FJC in the past & now a 4runner trail. Just to offer a comparison the tires & lift was basically identical on both rides. The FJC would go anywhere I wanted and where I took it was a lot worse than most.

While visiting my parents who live around 2 miles off the beaten path on a winding dirt road that leads to the top of a mountain the 4runner had a hell of a time making it. I was fighting the steering wheel the whole way with the rear end sliding from side to side.

I helped my father change a transfer case out on my mothers Grand Cherokee which he later took off the same mountain and came back up without slipping a wheel. The dash on the 4runner indicated that I was in 4wheel & I even attempted lo & hi to see if there may have been an issue with one over the other. Both however left me chasing my tail & overdriving.

Given that the 4runner has less then 10,000 miles I didn't think to verify that all 4 wheels were actually spinning. Has anyone ran into an issue where the 4wd isn't kicking in although the dash indicates that it is on these newer 5th generations? I'm pretty disappointed with its snow performance compared to some of my past & present rides. Hopefully, it's just a malfunctioning 4wd system!

I also own a JEEP LJ Rubicon & came up my snow covered driveway with relative ease but my wife struggled mightily in the 4runner. Seems, strange as I feel as though the FJC would've made it up with ease as well. This isn't a 4runner bash thread but wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience?

 

[marshal]

Did your FJ have a manual transmission? Because if it did, it had full time 4wd like a Limited 4Runner.

That said, the entire drive line is identical comparatively, with the only difference being the 4Runner has a longer rear driveshaft.

So the only other variable is added weight and longer wheel base.

 

[SKINUM]

4wd on 4runner & FJC

Nope, it was an auto. I did all the comparisons & the trail seemed to match the FJC closely. I feel like something is failing in 4wd mode. The way the rear end was chasing the front it made me think the front tires weren't engaging upon looking back at the situation.

The FJC did have some extra weight but in the end probably the same weight as the 4runner. The Grand Cherokee was all stock. I'll have to test it and see if perhaps the 4wd indicator is working but isn't actually providing power to the front wheels.

 

[marshal]

If the axle disconnect thingy in the front isn't working, you wouldn't be able to get 4wd. The power follows the path of least resistance and it wouldn't even touch the other wheel.

Your HUD would still display 4wd too, since the transfer is engaged. Best thing you could do would be to lift it off get ground and see if in 4wd it will drive the front passenger

 

[1engineer]

Your experience is absolutely opposite than what I have experienced in the past five yers driving on snowy mountain roads. I think this is my 17th 4wd of all makes models and years and the 4runner (3rd one of this generation) does as well as any of them in the past.

Really sounds like you have some type of problem. Get it to the shop unlrss you had some weird combination of buttons pushed. Simple 4HI with nothing else works great in the snow because VSC is still operating and keeps you going in the right direction.

 

[Diesel_Dog]

When you say the tires were basically the same, what do you mean? I could see tires being a major part of the difference in your scenario.

 

[SKINUM]

When you say the tires were basically the same, what do you mean? I could see tires being a major part of the difference in your scenario.

285/75/16 duratracs vs. 285/70/17 duratracs

 

[SKINUM]

If the axle disconnect thingy in the front isn't working, you wouldn't be able to get 4wd. The power follows the path of least resistance and it wouldn't even touch the other wheel.

Your HUD would still display 4wd too, since the transfer is engaged. Best thing you could do would be to lift it off get ground and see if in 4wd it will drive the front passenger

I'm gonna have to try this because it isn't performing any where near my expectations. I could've been fighting to get to the top of the mountain in 2wd basically which if so would impress me that I made it, lol.

Your experience is absolutely opposite than what I have experienced in the past five yers driving on snowy mountain roads. I think this is my 17th 4wd of all makes models and years and the 4runner (3rd one of this generation) does as well as any of them in the past.

Really sounds like you have some type of problem. Get it to the shop unlrss you had some weird combination of buttons pushed. Simple 4HI with nothing else works great in the snow because VSC is still operating and keeps you going in the right direction.

Good to know. I feel like something isn't functioning properly.

 

[Jeremy556]

Most likely answer is your test conditions were different, even if they "looked" the same. Both vehicles have exactly the same drive train and an AAD failure at that mileage is pretty much unheard of, especially without some visual indication like the 4WD light flashing non stop.

 

[SKINUM]

4wd on 4runner & FJC

Most likely answer is your test conditions were different, even if they "looked" the same. Both vehicles have exactly the same drive train and an AAD failure at that mileage is pretty much unheard of, especially without some visual indication like the 4WD light flashing non stop.

The Cherokee & 4runner test conditions were the same. The only separation was the couple of hours & a few degrees in temp increase that took place while installing the transfer case on the Grand Cherokee. No flashing lights for the 4wd on the 4runner though.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

-What pressure are you running in the Duratracs?

-Are they LTs?

-Where the FJ's LTs as well?

-Was VSC/TRAC engaging? They are programmed slightly different from FJ & 4Runner I believe, possibly more sensitive in the 4Runner (thus it might not do well in snowy/icy roads)

-How aggressive on the throttle were you in the 4Runner?

 

[SKINUM]

4wd on 4runner & FJC

Both were LT's, VSC was engaging at times and at one point I was pretty aggressive to get myself rolling again as I was having to go back a few feet and move forward again in an attempt to get a bit of forward movement on one particular spot. After this one spot I felt more like a rally car driver the whole way up.

Tire pressure is around 38 at the front & 35 in the rear. Very similar pressures were ran on the FJC 2-3psi difference

One thing I didn't take in to account was the Trac off button. I clicked it off as I didn't like the power kill it was providing. The FJC didn't have this push button feature. I assumed it automatically killed the breaking mechanism that limits wheel spin but I'm reading you have to hold this for three seconds to fully disengage it? This could explain the rally car part but if engaged the breaking mechanism killed any momentum I had and would stall the 4runner out. I could also be misusing this feature.....

 

[Dalko43]

I've had the rear of my 4runner slip and slide while going up an icey/slushy driveway. I was wearing mild A/T tires (don't even know if they were snow-rated) so the performance wasn't totally unexpected.

The FJ and 4runner were tested in different areas, though they had the same tires.

Were the Cherokee and 4runner wearing the same tires? Tires really make a huge difference, and unless you're testing two different vehicles, with the same tires, on the same terrain, it's really hard to make an accurate assessment of their relative performance.

That said, you should be able to go find some undulating terrain to test the 4runner's 4wd system. I would think you'd want to see if the front and rear drive shafts are rotating at the same speed, but I'm sure someone else could chime in on what indicators you should be looking for.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

There are so many variables to factor as many others have indicated.
I would doubt a 10,000 mile 4runner would be having a 4wd malfunction.
Keep us posted as to what you find out.

 

[wfo9]

Like someone else mentioned the 4Runner and FJc have pretty much the exact same system.

Easy to test the 4wd system if you have some jack stands.... For the ADD. Put it in 4h and verify the lights come on the dash... then put the vehicle up in the air on jackstands... Rotate one front wheel by hand. The other should spin in the opposite direction. Next step would be to verify Transfer case is working.. Start the truck and put it in drive and verify the front drive shaft and at least one wheel is moving.

If all that is working... then your problem is either driver, tires, or conditions. The 4r should perform better or at least as good as the vehicles mentioned. The slightly longer wheelbase compared to the FJc should keep it going straighter in slick road conditions.

If all else fails... try 4Lo+atrac. That is generally your best traction mode. If the stuff is so deep that wheel spin is required... Then the rear locker is you best bet. 4Lo will turn off all the other traction aids... But 4hi in std mode should be fine for typical slick road conditions.

 

[1engineer]

Both were LT's, VSC was engaging at times and at one point I was pretty aggressive to get myself rolling again as I was having to go back a few feet and move forward again in an attempt to get a bit of forward movement on one particular spot. After this one spot I felt more like a rally car driver the whole way up.

Tire pressure is around 38 at the front & 35 in the rear. Very similar pressures were ran on the FJC 2-3psi difference

One thing I didn't take in to account was the Trac off button. I clicked it off as I didn't like the power kill it was providing. The FJC didn't have this push button feature. I assumed it automatically killed the breaking mechanism that limits wheel spin but I'm reading you have to hold this for three seconds to fully disengage it? This could explain the rally car part but if engaged the breaking mechanism killed any momentum I had and would stall the 4runner out. I could also be misusing this feature.....

Please don't take this the wrong way but what were you doing man? As I said in another thread, I broke trail down our road for 1/2 mile this past weekend in 24" of snow. My "setting?" 4HI. That's all. I had to back up and hit it several times but that was because of floating up on the snow and high centering.

In normal snow or packed snow (driving like I am a responsible adult) I use 4HI with no other controls activated or de-activated. I have no problems because VSC will keep me going in the right direction and keep me from spinning much. Now, if I am on hard pack and I am stopped (like having to stop going up a hill) then I will hold the VSC button down for a few seconds until I see the skidding vehicle light on my dash. This will allow me to spin to my heart's content and keep the throttle on so I can maintain any forward momentum I might achieve. Personally I never use 4LO and very seldom (maybe twice in five years) use ATRAC because frankly, snow driving is not that difficult. Both times I used ATRAC in the snow I was off road and pretty much stuck.

If I were you I would try it again in a simple 4HI setting and see what happens.

 

[mnofpeace]

i have no opinion on your test one way or another...

but when we had about 10 inches down, and full blizzard conditions, i have my rig in 4Lo, as constant throttle as i could keep it, and it climbed a 40 degree hill, unplowed, for the qtr mile distance, up and out of my neighborhood...no fishtailing out of the rear, just a smooth climb as if it were bored. and i was on stock tires with 40K on them already.


i am not smart enough to know if somethign is wrong with your 4WD system, but i'd be curious to know what systems were on to cause this to happen to you. Could weight distribution also play a part in this?

 

[JohnJerk]

OP. Put in 4hi on dry pavement and see if you get drive train binding. If so 4wd is working and you can chalk this up to snow conditions. If no binding then no 4wd and you have a vehicle issue.

 

[SKINUM]

I've had the rear of my 4runner slip and slide while going up an icey/slushy driveway. I was wearing mild A/T tires (don't even know if they were snow-rated) so the performance wasn't totally unexpected.



The FJ and 4runner were tested in different areas, though they had the same tires.



Were the Cherokee and 4runner wearing the same tires? Tires really make a huge difference, and unless you're testing two different vehicles, with the same tires, on the same terrain, it's really hard to make an accurate assessment of their relative performance.



That said, you should be able to go find some undulating terrain to test the 4runner's 4wd system. I would think you'd want to see if the front and rear drive shafts are rotating at the same speed, but I'm sure someone else could chime in on what indicators you should be looking for.

The Cherokee had a less aggressive tire but also my track width was wider in the 4runner. So, I was hitting a different patch of the road. I could've been simply just being jerked in and out of the track pattern that was already established.

Plus, it was in the teens the night before so I probably hit the road while there was some ice accumulation. The Cherokee although hitting the same road also came up after 4 hours so the temp had risen a good amount which can change the conditions dramatically if ice was involved.

Like someone else mentioned the 4Runner and FJc have pretty much the exact same system.

Easy to test the 4wd system if you have some jack stands.... For the ADD. Put it in 4h and verify the lights come on the dash... then put the vehicle up in the air on jackstands... Rotate one front wheel by hand. The other should spin in the opposite direction. Next step would be to verify Transfer case is working.. Start the truck and put it in drive and verify the front drive shaft and at least one wheel is moving.

If all that is working... then your problem is either driver, tires, or conditions. The 4r should perform better or at least as good as the vehicles mentioned. The slightly longer wheelbase compared to the FJc should keep it going straighter in slick road conditions.

If all else fails... try 4Lo+atrac. That is generally your best traction mode. If the stuff is so deep that wheel spin is required... Then the rear locker is you best bet. 4Lo will turn off all the other traction aids... But 4hi in std mode should be fine for typical slick road conditions.

I used 4wd tonight and although I didn't physically lift the 4runner and verify the 4wd seemed to be working. I'm beginning to think the conditions at the time I was out was just very poor.

Please don't take this the wrong way but what were you doing man? As I said in another thread, I broke trail down our road for 1/2 mile this past weekend in 24" of snow. My "setting?" 4HI. That's all. I had to back up and hit it several times but that was because of floating up on the snow and high centering.



In normal snow or packed snow (driving like I am a responsible adult) I use 4HI with no other controls activated or de-activated. I have no problems because VSC will keep me going in the right direction and keep me from spinning much. Now, if I am on hard pack and I am stopped (like having to stop going up a hill) then I will hold the VSC button down for a few seconds until I see the skidding vehicle light on my dash. This will allow me to spin to my heart's content and keep the throttle on so I can maintain any forward momentum I might achieve. Personally I never use 4LO and very seldom (maybe twice in five years) use ATRAC because frankly, snow driving is not that difficult. Both times I used ATRAC in the snow I was off road and pretty much stuck.



If I were you I would try it again in a simple 4HI setting and see what happens.

No, offense taken. The road I was on was unpaved and off camber in spots. I'd estimate the hill I had the most trouble on to be 20 degrees or so and somewhere between 150-200 yards.

I initially started off in 4hi and a steady pace but the traction control brought me to a dead stop. After this I attempted 4lo just to see if I could get a bit of forward movement.

Eventually, I had to back up a few feet and keep the momentum of wheel spin to get me past the first "stuck" point. I believe if I had fully disabled the Trac option I would've faired better. Hindsight is 20/20 but given the situation I believe and length of the slope I think 4hi and some momentum would've been my best bet.

i have no opinion on your test one way or another...



but when we had about 10 inches down, and full blizzard conditions, i have my rig in 4Lo, as constant throttle as i could keep it, and it climbed a 40 degree hill, unplowed, for the qtr mile distance, up and out of my neighborhood...no fishtailing out of the rear, just a smooth climb as if it were bored. and i was on stock tires with 40K on them already.





i am not smart enough to know if somethign is wrong with your 4WD system, but i'd be curious to know what systems were on to cause this to happen to you. Could weight distribution also play a part in this?

I'm beginning to think it was strictly poor conditions. A combination of packed & unpacked snow that was exposed to temperatures in the teens. I guess we'll see in the future with more snow falls.

OP. Put in 4hi on dry pavement and see if you get drive train binding. If so 4wd is working and you can chalk this up to snow conditions. If no binding then no 4wd and you have a vehicle issue.

I'll have to steal it from my wife at some point. I used 4wd tonight on my rutted out driveway and only had a bit of slippage. As mentioned in the post above I think I probably just hit some pretty poor conditions at the perfect time.

 

[Bourbonator]

Just curious... Is there any possibility that a bad wheel alignment might make keeping the truck pointed where you want to go more difficult in rough conditions/terrain?

The only time I've had traction nannies engage while driving in snow is when I intentionally give too much gas from a stop and making a sharp turn.

I surprised all my passengers the other week by swerving a lane over in several inches of snow to avoid an ice brick flying off the car ahead. Drove like it was on rails.

Hope you can resolve your issues!