5th gen JBL stereo upgrade build Diary

[mugenrios2k]

Documenting the long term project and looking for input from others that have preceded me in upgrading the Limited trim JBL system w sub to a full custom setup.
Having hip surgery coming up so this would be an install starting in 2 to 3 months from now.

Intent is to keep factory head unit to maintain the OEM look but have a full custom setup.
I have previous "installer experience" so doing this is nothing new to me and I am fully aware of the snags/problems I may run into and custom modification I may need to do to accomplish this install


Questions to the community;
On the JBL system with sub can one extract signal at the head unit ( F-L/R R-L/R); this would be a cut/NO signal to factory amp/DSP.
Want to grab signal pre any OEM signal processing and feed to the DA DSP which has hi level inputs/or RCA inputs as options.
as well grab a Remote turn on switched +12 V with radio power


From the information I have gathered I will need to rewire and actually prefer to rewire to each speaker location to maximize ability to tune the system with the DA DSP

DRIVERS
Dash speakers
TX35
Skar Audio - TX35 | 3.5" 120 Watt Elite Coaxial Car Speakers - Pair

Front doors
TX69
Skar Audio - TX69 | 6" x 9" 240 Watt Elite Coaxial Car Speakers - Pair
Only the 6x9 woofer would be driven by signal due to low pass filter on DSP
Due to mounting depth of the TX69 at 3.46" use of TacoTunes spacers+ and additional 0.25" and trimming of the speaker should on the back of the door panel and potently space out the bottom of the door panel.

Rear Doors and Hatch
Skar Audio - TX65 | 6.5" 200 Watt Elite Coaxial Car Speakers - Pair

Subwoofer
Four VD-8 4ohm DVC
Skar Audio - VD-8 | 8" 600 Watt Max Power Subwoofer (Shallow Mount)
Wired series/parallel for 2 ohm load
Box will be designed to allow securing to cargo hold down rings.
This will allow secure box and will also allow removal of box when cargo space is needed

SIGNAL PATH
Factory OEM head unit

DSP speaker amp
Audio Control D-6.1200
has line level converters ( factory amp output to D-6/1200 inputs) and DSP driving ch 1-4 for Dash and doors L/R independently and 5,6ch driving rear door and hatch in parallel L/R
D-6.1200 | AudioControl


Amps
6 ch Front stage and rear fill
Audio Control D-6.1200

sub
SK-M5001D
https://www.skaraudio.com/collectio...o-amplifiers/products/sk-m9005d-car-amplifier

($120 SK-M5001D; $0.43/ watt for 380 RMS at 2 ohm) ; unfortunately audio control does not have a mini amp that fits right in that power/$ range. ($279 ACM-1.300; 0.93/watt for only 300rms at 2ohm) is the closest

 

[trey99ek]

Just a question, but why 4 subs?

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[mugenrios2k]

Just a question, but why 4 subs?

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Looks and uniform pressure wave across the entire width between the wheel wells.
Also wavelength comes into play with constructive and destructive interference depending on driver spacing dimension between the two outer most drivers.

I have used multiple drivers in the past vs say two larger drivers and found the transient response to be better in most case....but that depends a lot on moving mass Mms, spider compliance/surround compliance, motor field strength.

just depends on driver selection and the listening environment
EG 6x 6.5" Tang bang subwoofers 13mm xmax!!!! in the convertable space of a Honda S2000

 

[4Rums]

Unless things have changed with the latest head units, the signal from the JBL Head Unit is a balanced signal, so tapping it pre-processing will be difficult. The volume, fader, and eq are all done at the amp. For a full signal, you will need to tap the rear doors. The dash and front doors are band-passed/crossed-over at the amplifier. Quite frankly, it may not be worth the hassle trying to integrate with the OEM head unit. I tried and gave up. I would get an aftermarket one and work from there.

Since you mentioned Dayton, I'm assuming you are looking at parts express.
I'm running FaitalPro 6FE100 on the doors and FaitalPro 3FE25 on the dash. The 3FE25 are probably the most efficient 3" speakers, are super detailed, and can get ear piercing loud. They run hot up top in the frequency range (9khz and above), so you will need the dsp to tame it down. Also, a DSP without a measuring microphone is of no great benefit, so budget for a decent one ($100) that you can use to measure and identify the offending frequencies. You will need the DSP to control the cabin gain and windshield reflections.

 

[mugenrios2k]

Unless things have changed with the latest head units, the signal from the JBL Head Unit is a balanced signal, so tapping it pre-processing will be difficult. The volume, fader, and eq are all done at the amp. For a full signal, you will need to tap the rear doors. The dash and front doors are band-passed/crossed-over at the amplifier. Quite frankly, it may not be worth the hassle trying to integrate with the OEM head unit. I tried and gave up. I would get an aftermarket one and work from there.

.

well damn,....

Tapping a the amp rear door output I would loose fade ability on the OEM head unit ( which I never adjust anyways... and if I did need to I could do it in the DSP....)

Search is such a pain in the A@@ some times ; what is the output wattage on the OEM amp. Know its a 4ohm load ( rear doors and hatch wired in series as 2 ohm drivers) need to back calculate the voltage to see if it is to much power for the DSP hi level inputs.... and will need to verify that they are infact full signal outputs

ya got a good RTA to work with
Behringer DEQ2496 Ultracurve Pro Digital EQ/RTA

 

[mugenrios2k]

Just talked to Tacotunes;

They have developed a PnP harness for the tacoma with the JBL systems
and the 4runner PnP for JBL+sub to full aftermarket setup is coming....


Just not expected to be out until the end of the year :crybaby:

 

[4Rums]

well damn,....

Tapping a the amp rear door output I would loose fade ability on the OEM head unit ( which I never adjust anyways... and if I did need to I could do it in the DSP....)

Search is such a pain in the A@@ some times ; what is the output wattage on the OEM amp. Know its a 4ohm load ( rear doors and hatch wired in series as 2 ohm drivers) need to back calculate the voltage to see if it is to much power for the DSP hi level inputs.... and will need to verify that they are infact full signal outputs

ya got a good RTA to work with
Behringer DEQ2496 Ultracurve Pro Digital EQ/RTA

Most of the stuff that will come up searching is for the non-JBL stuff. The JBL is all 4 Ohms if I recall. All speakers have a direct line from the amp, nothing in parallel or series. All the wiring (except the rear passenger door) passes by the passenger kick panel, so you can tap from there.

Attached is the audio wiring diagram for the earlier 5th gens with JBL (don't think it has changed much) and the location of the connectors in the vehicle.

 

[llDemonll]

coaxials in the front doors and 3.5" in the dash is going to be weird.

why not tweeters in the dash and woofers in the front doors?

 

[mugenrios2k]

coaxials in the front doors and 3.5" in the dash is going to be weird.

why not tweeters in the dash and woofers in the front doors?

trying to say same manufacture through out if possible.
Trying to find a 6x9 that is not a coaxial and is not part of a component set is rather difficult.

The 6x9 in the doors would be X-over that the tweeter in that location would never receive signal and I will most likely cut the leads going to that tweeter as well...

every speaker location is independently driven by its own channel. 4 channel amp running the dash and front doors; 4+1 channel amp running rear doors and hatch and sub

 

[mugenrios2k]

Unless things have changed with the latest head units, the signal from the JBL Head Unit is a balanced signal,.....For a full signal, you will need to tap the rear doors. .

you are correct on this point.
Head unit does sent Left and Right signals to amp with balance as recording/music/source material is recorded/ intended.

User adjustable fader and balance is then done in/at the amp.

OEM wiring
Front door and dash are in parallel with dash having a capacitor to act as hi pass filter. at least that what Tacotunes has told me going to pull the 2019 wiring diagram tomorrow and see if I can confirm that.
even if they are separate signals to the dash /door I only need a single L/R and can pull that form the rear channels.
UPDATE pulls the dash out it s a 2 way coaxial driver and has independent signal going to it and does not appear to be in parallel with the door ( at least the parallel electrical tag is not occurring at the tweeter plug).

Rear door and hatch are in series

or run one of these... LC6i | AudioControl

All signals out to each location in the rear are ( except sub)IN FACT ARE FULL RANGE.:dancin::dancin::dancin:
Dash and door signal appear to be independently driven from amp with low pass on the 6x9 and a hi pass on the dash 2way coaxial.

any variance in output at each relative location is limited by physical limits of a driver ( EG a 6x9 is just not going to product hi frequencies very well) and tapering off of the low Fq for the 6x9 and 6.5" is just a function of there size power being applied and the fact they are in a door enclosure (" leaky" big box/ free air)

You can physically still feel and see the driver moving aka full signal all the way down to 10Hz ya 10Hz!!!

Acoustic profiles of each location ( near field measurements. RED LINE ONLY ignore the yellow.)
RED line is peak value with sine wave sweep; yellow is real time background noise at the time the data was freeze framed
this Qualitative and not quantitative data

Volume at 30
low/mid/hi all set to center value.
Data recorded at each location in with the fader/balance set to only drive that speaker

On the first graph JBL actually did a decent job of tuning for a relatively flat system response with a bump in the 6k-10k range... measurement taken at clock location.

all other measurements taken right at the speaker/driver.

note on the 6x9 I terminated the test at just over 450hz as the dash driver start to mesh with the recorded level I was recording right at the 6x9 ( despite covering the dash driver as best as I could. . Tells me the cap and or x-over for the dash driver is probably sized/set to be a 550HZ or 600Hz Hi pass at 12db/octave.

 

[mugenrios2k]

solution found .....

and just took the dash speaker out....it s a 2way was not expecting that...





AC DM-610
DM-608 | AudioControl

Tag OEM amp out puts to dash and front door +sub to ensure true full range signal
only retain OEM HU balance



use
AC DM-810.
DM-810 | AudioControl

to retain balance / fade with OEM HU

 

[kenreau]

Pay dirt, at last. Subscribed to this thread.

I'm in same boat with a 2020 TRD with Nav and JBL with sub. Looking to keep head unit and focus on upgrading front stage (doors and dash) plus sub with a {insert something tbd} to feed a dsp processor/amp.

Just noodling around searching and keep seeing PAC AmpPRo and Maestro idatalinks mentioned, but not found the holy grail yet. Hopefully Taco Tunes, or someone will have a good solution soon.

Fwiw, I have been really disappointed with how much road noise comes through to the cabin, so I have a few boxes of second skin, mlv and spectrum to hopefully drop the noise floor over the next few weekends and tackle the stereo system later.

Thx
Kenreau

 

[kenreau]

solution found .....

and just took the dash speaker out....it s a 2way was not expecting that...

This dash speaker / coax matches my 2020 4Runner. If I understand correctly, there are 4 wires in the molex; a pair for the dash coax and a pair jumpered goes on to the front door 6x9(?)

My notion is to continue on with a ~3" to 4" coax, or full range upgraded replacement speaker on the dash rather than just a tweeter from a component set. It is my understanding that it is better to have the dash speakers go as low in frequency as reasonable (150hz ~ 300hz range) to keep the sound stage up & across in front. A tweeter only (say >3Khz) may be too big of a physical spread to the door speakers (6x9 or 6.5" component speaker). This also drives the need to have two separate channels and dsp/time alignment for the dash and front door speakers to really tune things in. Is this on track?

Thx
Kenreau

 

[Mudballz]

If anyone wants to sell me there JBL system I am a willing buyer
Lmk Mike :music:

 

[Superjet]

An easier, cleaner solution to integrate with the JBL system without needing to sum channels or restore bass roll off.
2014 - 2019 5th gen
Just plug it in:
Amplifier Integration Interface for Select 2014+ Toyota and Lexus vehicles with Premium Amplified Sound Systems - PAC

 

[shdw03]

An easier, cleaner solution to integrate with the JBL system without needing to sum channels or restore bass roll off.
2014 - 2019 5th gen
Just plug it in:
Amplifier Integration Interface for Select 2014+ Toyota and Lexus vehicles with Premium Amplified Sound Systems - PAC

Yup. Something like this a better solution. Or even a DSR1 from rockford. They take preamp inputs and bypass the factory amp all together

 

[-DOZER-]

Has anyone tried using the PAC APH-TY04 Speaker Harness to bypass at the JBL amp? Below is the product link to PAC’s site. I have an after market HU with RCA’s out. I’m just looking for a way to bypass the OEM amp and tap into the OEM speaker wires without splicing. If I understand this correctly, I won’t have to run new output speaker wires from an aftermarket amp to my speaks if I use this harness, right?

Speaker Connection Harness - PAC

 

[4Rums]

Has anyone tried using the PAC APH-TY04 Speaker Harness to bypass at the JBL amp? Below is the product link to PAC’s site. I have an after market HU with RCA’s out. I’m just looking for a way to bypass the OEM amp and tap into the OEM speaker wires without splicing. If I understand this correctly, I won’t have to run new output speaker wires from an aftermarket amp to my speaks if I use this harness, right?

Speaker Connection Harness - PAC

What are you trying to do? Add your own amp? While I don't know if that harness will work, I can try to point you in the right direction. If you look at the post I made previously in this thread (post #7) there are a couple of wiring diagrams. Those are for for the 2010-2013 5th gens. You'd need to find the ones for your model year. Using the ones posted as an example, the first document (AS-SEP.pdf) has the wiring diagram for the JBL. As you can see in the diagram, the amp uses the connectors N11, N12, N13, N14. So whatever harness you find, it should plug in into those connectors as those are what feed the speakers. The pin layout for those connectors are in that document as well if you scroll down. So check if the connectors of the harness you mentioned above matches the layout. The other option is to get to the amp and check it out visually. You'd need to remove the third row if you have it.

 

[-DOZER-]

What are you trying to do? Add your own amp? While I don't know if that harness will work, I can try to point you in the right direction. If you look at the post I made previously in this thread (post #7) there are a couple of wiring diagrams. Those are for for the 2010-2013 5th gens. You'd need to find the ones for your model year. Using the ones posted as an example, the first document (AS-SEP.pdf) has the wiring diagram for the JBL. As you can see in the diagram, the amp uses the connectors N11, N12, N13, N14. So whatever harness you find, it should plug in into those connectors as those are what feed the speakers. The pin layout for those connectors are in that document as well if you scroll down. So check if the connectors of the harness you mentioned above matches the layout. The other option is to get to the amp and check it out visually. You'd need to remove the third row if you have it.

Yes, looking at the 8 channel JBL amp with DSP. Also adding a mono amp and shallow mount 8” aftermarket sub in OEM enclosure. Can you confirm if N12 & N13 are all the speaker outputs from the OEM amp?

 

[-DOZER-]

So the PAC website states "Speaker Connection Harness for select 2006-2018 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with amplified systems"

And their compatibility chart show this:

Here is a side by side of the pin connectors:

Both look good to me. What do you think? Just need to confirm the N12 and N13 are the OEMs amp's speaker outputs. But so far it looks promising.