jam23r1
New member
air comes from the inner fender. here on this forum we don't argue with [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
5th Gen Snorkel Pre-Install
- Thread starter TOY2G
- Start date
air comes from the inner fender. here on this forum we don't argue with [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
1engineer
Moderator
Oh, there are a lot of people here who argue with me and rightly so. I have been wrong more times than I can count in the past and I will probably be wrong about something today. Just ask my wife...or children...or my team...or my neighbor...or [MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION], [MENTION=96409]Canazes9[/MENTION] [MENTION=51186]philsey[/MENTION], [MENTION=68685]Ducmonsta[/MENTION] (I was definitely wrong about something and he corrected me the other day lol) [MENTION=55815]Okki[/MENTION], definitely [MENTION=63951]homeyclaus[/MENTION] and the list goes on. Yes, I am wrong quite often. Not about CAI's though.
*Off Topic*
Have you guys heard about Toyota's new Hydrogen powered cars they will be selling next year? Cool huh?
I am worried though that, if two of those cars would happen to hit a normal car, someone will drown... Wait for it...
Rubberdown
New member
You sir, are a giant nerd. But I kinda I sorta snorted when I read that. Almost a laugh.
Very excited about this... well the Hydrogen car... too bad it's going to be focused on the greater LA test market because they have some hydrogen refueling stations there already. About time they came out with these and killed off those stupid gas-electric hybrids...
Sorry about the hijack!
Okki
Some say adding a snorkel forces air into the intake providing some extra power. The theory is, the wind (from driving) gets forced down the snorkel and into your intake with much more volume than your fender inlet.
this would be very hard to dyno.......unless you put a dyno in an wind tunnel and simulated 30mph head on winds.....
dunno.... I will get this think on here at some point and get it sealed up (if it can be seal 100%). and perhaps i can get test it out when e run "El Camino Del Diablo" in the spring.
I have had water over the hood of my Black 4th gen twice, I had wished i had a snorkel at the time, but in the end I was fortunate to not have needed it.
this would be very hard to dyno.......unless you put a dyno in an wind tunnel and simulated 30mph head on winds.....
dunno.... I will get this think on here at some point and get it sealed up (if it can be seal 100%). and perhaps i can get test it out when e run "El Camino Del Diablo" in the spring.
I have had water over the hood of my Black 4th gen twice, I had wished i had a snorkel at the time, but in the end I was fortunate to not have needed it.
philsey
New member
I see what you did there. Nerd.
1engineer
Moderator
I totally agree on the function of a snorkel in deep water. In the case of a CAI, ANY CAI on a 5th gen 4Runner, EVEN IF the intake provided a higher volume of air at any temperature, the ECM will just adjust the mixture according to it's preset parameters which are based on the OEM CAI.
Canazes9
New member
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] is right about the cold air effect, but there is an aspect of engine breathing that has been over looked in this discussion and that's the ram air effect. This is an old hot rodders technique of getting a minor super charger like effect from putting a forward facing scoop in clean air outside the engine compartment. As speed comes up, air is forced into the ram air scoop slightly pressurizing the manifold.
There are several problems with making ram air work properly. 1st you have to be in clean air - the little scoops on the hoods of our TE 4Runners, other Toyotas and numerous other factory cars (some functional/some non-functional) don't stick up far enough to get into clean air and consequently don't get much ram air effect. The 2nd problem is that you need to be moving at significant speed in order to see much benefit. At 80 mph you may get an additional 20-30 hp in a motor like our stock 5th Gen 4Runners - that's enough hp to feel w/ your butt meter, but not enough to make a whole lot of difference in performance. Hot Rodder's finishing the 1/4 mile at speeds in xs of 150mph effect obviously can make better use of this effect and it may gain them that little extra fraction of a second that helps them win.
I only mention this because people I've known that put some of the aggressive forward scooped snorkels on their Tacomas have noticed this effect - at high highway speeds there is a slight increase in power. More of a side note than a performance benefit, but there it is.
About the hydrogen powered cars - how are they making the fuel? What will it cost? Anybody have any miles vs dollars comparisons to a conventional gasoline engine?
David
This may need to be moved to it's own thread, but here you go with some data:
- http://heshydrogen.com/hydrogen-fuel-cost-vs-gasoline/
- http://www.carsdirect.com/green-cars/how-expensive-is-hydrogen-fuel-for-cars-price-and-costs-involved
- http://cafcp.org/stationmap
- http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hydrogen.shtml
- http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_benefits.html
Last edited:
homeyclaus
New member
I hate the word "green" with anything environmentally related in marketing documents. I know Greenpeace started it, but it's getting stupid now.
One of my issues with hydrogen as a fuel is containment and density. As a gas, one needs about 10,000 psi to get a still low energy density. That means a very heavy tank. As a liquid, the vapor pressures and boil-off are hard to manage.
Then there are the inefficiencies of internal combustion. A modern cylinder internal combustion engine is about 12% efficient. At that energy density, (I exaggerate but ...) you're better off with a Nissan Leaf and a trunk full of NiMH AA batteries. Really.
So now you're adding fuel cells. My sister tore her hair out for years at Ballard Power Systems doing surface catalyst math trying to shrink these things down for passenger cars. Not saying it's not possible, but there isn't enough engineering (well, okay, management) will to overcome some of the challenges.
LNG or LPG via fuel cell is where it's at. Much, much higher energy density, lower pressures (lower weight, containment, delivery, handling), the fuel can be synthesized easily, and if we have to we can burn it in combustion engines without re-engineering everything. Hydrogen power exists only because the politicians think it makes good sound bites.
One of my issues with hydrogen as a fuel is containment and density. As a gas, one needs about 10,000 psi to get a still low energy density. That means a very heavy tank. As a liquid, the vapor pressures and boil-off are hard to manage.
Then there are the inefficiencies of internal combustion. A modern cylinder internal combustion engine is about 12% efficient. At that energy density, (I exaggerate but ...) you're better off with a Nissan Leaf and a trunk full of NiMH AA batteries. Really.
So now you're adding fuel cells. My sister tore her hair out for years at Ballard Power Systems doing surface catalyst math trying to shrink these things down for passenger cars. Not saying it's not possible, but there isn't enough engineering (well, okay, management) will to overcome some of the challenges.
LNG or LPG via fuel cell is where it's at. Much, much higher energy density, lower pressures (lower weight, containment, delivery, handling), the fuel can be synthesized easily, and if we have to we can burn it in combustion engines without re-engineering everything. Hydrogen power exists only because the politicians think it makes good sound bites.
ahahahhahaaha just like Hybrids, all electric and E85 ... now give me a damn dinosaur to burn! :hurt:
Considering that a Mr Fusion is still further off.... out of all the alternatives to fossil fuels (lets not throw algae based diesel production in there).. I'll take Hydrogen as the least impactful and most sensible from an "electric" car standpoint. Sure LPG is nice, but it's still a limited resource.
Seriously though.. can a moderator please move these last posts to a new thread. We've now seriously hijacked Toy2G's snorkel thread.
Okki
