96 T4r SAS full size axles question

V

Vally Boy209

New member
I'm looking to add a sfa to my 1996 3.4 5 speed T4r and had a few questions.
-My buddys have sas's their chevys, how much different is the Toyota?
-Could you put the axles off and older chevy or ford under and use their brackets? (I have access to some)
-I know the cheaper way to go is a waggy Dana 44 with leafs, what are my steering and braking options?
-I'm looking for only a 4-6 in lift and 33s
- any links to a good guide and parts list it would save me some time.
 
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If you're only running 33's you could go with a wagoneer D44 or a mini-truck axle with wheel spacers (mini axle will require running an older style passenger-drop transfer case as well, but that could be a good thing if you eventually want 4.7 t-case gears or dual transfer cases).

The process is about the same as any other truck. chop off everything you don't need and weld on some spring hangers and hang the axle under the truck.

Steering is typically done with a tie rod and drag link mounted to a traditional steering box like the one used in older toyotas.

I don't know about D44 brakes, but I'm sure there are options out there for upgrades.

Tons of people just use mini-truck rear leaf springs under the front (with a few extra leafs to hold up the weight)... they cost next to nothing from the junkyard and move the front axle an inch or two forward, which is good for approach angle.

This whole thing kind of begs the question though... seems like a lot of work for such a mild tire choice. 33's will practically fit on a stock 4runner and will look puny with 6 inches of lift. Just my opinion. But if you're going much bigger, the D44 is not widely regarded as a strong axle, and the mini axle will require longfields if you're going with a larger tire.
 
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white_n_slow said:
This whole thing kind of begs the question though... seems like a lot of work for such a mild tire choice. 33's will practically fit on a stock 4runner and will look puny with 6 inches of lift. Just my opinion. But if you're going much bigger, the D44 is not widely regarded as a strong axle, and the mini axle will require longfields if you're going with a larger tire.
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I agree. If you only want to run 33's, why bother with an SAS?
[MENTION=8883]LINY4Runner[/MENTION], i'm asking you the same question
 
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white_n_slow said:
If you're only running 33's you could go with a wagoneer D44 or a mini-truck axle with wheel spacers (mini axle will require running an older style passenger-drop transfer case as well, but that could be a good thing if you eventually want 4.7 t-case gears or dual transfer cases).

The process is about the same as any other truck. chop off everything you don't need and weld on some spring hangers and hang the axle under the truck.

Steering is typically done with a tie rod and drag link mounted to a traditional steering box like the one used in older toyotas.

I don't know about D44 brakes, but I'm sure there are options out there for upgrades.

Tons of people just use mini-truck rear leaf springs under the front (with a few extra leafs to hold up the weight)... they cost next to nothing from the junkyard and move the front axle an inch or two forward, which is good for approach angle.

This whole thing kind of begs the question though... seems like a lot of work for such a mild tire choice. 33's will practically fit on a stock 4runner and will look puny with 6 inches of lift. Just my opinion. But if you're going much bigger, the D44 is not widely regarded as a strong axle, and the mini axle will require longfields if you're going with a larger tire.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the responce, I wanted to stick with 33s for gearing reasons (4.88 is a common gear in both the d44 and toy8) and I would like to keep the lowest lift possible, but I know that can be difficult with an sas, so Im going for around 4 in. I would not want to run the toy front axle because this will see street also and wheel spacers effect your steering.
 
steezemcqueen said:
I agree. If you only want to run 33's, why bother with an SAS?

[MENTION=8883]LINY4Runner[/MENTION], i'm asking you the same question
Click to expand...

My front end is shot, like really bad.. Ive already had to put in 3 cv axles, a wheel bearing, plus my steering racks going out all my ball joints and tie rods need replaced. Oh and my brakes are gonezo, and all my shocks and coils are shot.

I know IFS can be very capable but I really love the simple rugged sfa vs ifs with all those moving parts.
 
Vally Boy209 said:
My front end is shot, like really bad.. Ive already had to put in 3 cv axles, a wheel bearing, plus my steering racks going out all my ball joints and tie rods need replaced. Oh and my brakes are gonezo, and all my shocks and coils are shot.

I know IFS can be very capable but I really love the simple rugged sfa vs ifs with all those moving parts.
Click to expand...

understandable but you're going to spend 5x the amount to sas it vs redoing the IFS
 
steezemcqueen said:
understandable but you're going to spend 5x the amount to sas it vs redoing the IFS
Click to expand...

I was hoping I could use the fords dana 44, its a drivers side diff i believe. Save some money on brackets, leafs, axle, brakes, ect.. I was talking to my buddy and he seemed pretty confident it would work.
 
Vally Boy209 said:
I was hoping I could use the fords dana 44, its a drivers side diff i believe. Save some money on brackets, leafs, axle, brakes, ect.. I was talking to my buddy and he seemed pretty confident it would work.
Click to expand...

Yes you could probably do a cheap sas but its not going to be any better than a IFS setup. Probably worse. Keep in mind you need to do a 2wd T100 oil pan swap, figure out steering, make sure the gearing in the front matches your stock rear, etc etc etc. Not to mention 3rd gens and Tacos on leafs usually end up pretty tall.
 
steezemcqueen said:
I agree. If you only want to run 33's, why bother with an SAS?

[MENTION=8883]LINY4Runner[/MENTION], i'm asking you the same question
Click to expand...

I'm gonna be running either 35's or 37's. My 3-link and triple rates will flex 1000% better than my stiff IFS. My truck sh!ts CVs constantly with the front locker so I'm obviously pushing it further than it's limits in IFS configuration. I want to get rid of the electronic front diff and transfer case. I also need to replace my transfer case actuator, upper control arms and steering rack. So my reasoning is not only to increase my offroad prowess, but to simplify my 4WD power transfer and build my front end to be more solid and reliable.

To the OP: You will meet tons of resistance posting a thread saying "my friends all have SAS'd Chevys is it the same on my Toyota?" because it's apparent you haven't done your homework or any research whatsoever. I researched and played with different ideas for a year or two before actually jumping into it, and I feel I'm going the best route for me. Do some research; on here (check out Addicted Offroad) and Yotatech (check out All-Pro). If you go on Pirate I would silently browse rather than post up what you've posted here, you'll get reamed. Spend some time pushing your IFS to it's ACTUAL limits while researching and when the truck is ready and more importantly YOU are ready, then move forward. It takes a little more than welding in leaf spring brackets to make a truck wheel well. It takes engineering. Are you ready for that?
 
Vally Boy209 said:
I was hoping I could use the fords dana 44, its a drivers side diff i believe. Save some money on brackets, leafs, axle, brakes, ect.. I was talking to my buddy and he seemed pretty confident it would work.
Click to expand...

Running 33's on a SAS truck will kill your ground clearance. 35s is the smallest tire I would say for a SAS'd truck and even those are sometimes too small. I'm running 33's on stock suspension, 0" lift. and you're going to be running it on 4-6"? and like someone mentioned, Leafs on these rigs make them super tall.

If you actually wheel it, you'll hate being SAS'd with 33's because you will be getting hung up on rocks constantly. Not worth it in my opinion.
 
Vally Boy209 said:
I know IFS can be very capable but I really love the simple rugged sfa vs ifs with all those moving parts.
Click to expand...

Where does this trope come from? IFS is bone simple - hub, CV axle, steering spindle and balljoints, and the CV is almost always the first to break so that's all you've got to carry for spares. A solid axle has many more parts and is much more difficult to take apart and repair, and when something breaks you never have any idea what's it's going to be so you have to carry a full set of shafts and an entire spare knuckle.

I don't understand the cult of the solid axle, and I have one for hecks sake.
 
KidVermicious said:
Where does this trope come from? IFS is bone simple - hub, CV axle, steering spindle and balljoints, and the CV is almost always the first to break so that's all you've got to carry for spares. A solid axle has many more parts and is much more difficult to take apart and repair, and when something breaks you never have any idea what's it's going to be so you have to carry a full set of shafts and an entire spare knuckle.

I don't understand the cult of the solid axle, and I have one for hecks sake.
Click to expand...

Not sure what year the OP drives but I have an 01 with MultiMode; actuators and gizmos everywhere going from 2 to 4 and AWD to 4WD and the front A.D.D. and the rear e-locker. I HATE it.
 
I suppose that's a fair point, I'm more used to the first gen IFS. The '99 is my wife's, if it's ever mine I'm likely to get rid of all the electronic whizbangery I can :).

My point stands though - you're going into an SAS having done your research, knowing exactly what you're going to gain and what you're going to lose and what's is going to take and you're ok with all of that. That's how it should be. The OP on the other hand is suffering from the cult of the solid axle, he's got no idea WHY he doesn't like his IFS, he's just heard that it's "weak" and knows solid axles are macho and his friends have one so he wants one.
 
KidVermicious said:
I suppose that's a fair point, I'm more used to the first gen IFS. The '99 is my wife's, if it's ever mine I'm likely to get rid of all the electronic whizbangery I can :).

My point stands though - you're going into an SAS having done your research, knowing exactly what you're going to gain and what you're going to lose and what's is going to take and you're ok with all of that. That's how it should be. The OP on the other hand is suffering from the cult of the solid axle, he's got no idea WHY he doesn't like his IFS, he's just heard that it's "weak" and knows solid axles are macho and his friends have one so he wants one.
Click to expand...

I concur.
 
If ground clearance on 33's is a primary objective, chances are sticking with the ifs will net you more than a 44 on 33's. The LCA's on the 4runners, even stock, sit so the diff is above the centerline of the axle.

I'm sure if you asked one of the many members who are currently running 33s what their clearance is they'd be happy to go out and measure. I am currently running stock suspension on a 31 inch tire so I cannot help (though I may throw up the number if I remember). Maybe you could get under one of your buddy's trucks to measure the ground clearance there for a comparison.

In short, sitck with the IFS. You'd be surprised how capable it is and your buddies will be impressed when you keep up with them.
 
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