99 5 Speed Clutch Replacement Advice Needed

gannonrt

gannonrt

New member
My '99 5 Speed has a slipping clutch. I'm planning on doing the work myself with the help of my neighbor down the street. Luckily, he also has a '99 5 speed (same color too!) and will be replacing the clutch on his T4R. I'm purchasing the tranny jack from HF today and we should rip into his this weekend and mine the weekend after that. Our plan is to get the clutch replacement kit from Wabfab or Marlin and a replacement flywheel from Napa. He is going with a OEM style replacement but I am considering a HD 1200# clutch from Marlin instead of the 900# rated OEM since I off road my vehicle more then he does.

I've read a number of threads (best one is here: 5VZ Clutch Job - TTORA Forum on the replacement and feel confident that we'll be able to do this in about 10 hours for the first one and 6-8 for the second. However, I'm a bit confused on the consequences/advantages of using the 1200# clutch from Marlin. Can someone help with the following questions:

1) Will the 1200# clutch decrease my ability to "feather" into gear?

2) I assume that I'll have to push harder to disengage the clutch and it will be about 30% more effort for my leg. Is this correct?

3) Will the 1200# clutch increase wear on my transmission, drive train, master cylinder or pedal bracket at all?

4) Will the 1200# clutch assist me in low range 4x4 operation while off-roading? If so, how? (I typically wheel in somewhat muddy Ohio forest trails that have camber / inclines to them. There is not much rock climbing at all in Ohio. I do plan on heading to Colorado for a week trip in 2014 with this vehicle.)

5) Has anyone used the 1200# and wished they had stuck with 900#?


I apologize for the basic questions for someone who should know better.
 
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Good luck with the replacement. I don't have experience with the 1200# but I just replaced mine about 6 months ago with a OEM NAPA clutch. Once we got the tranny off it was fairly simply (the pilot valve was froze to the shaft). I couldn't imagine the 1200# clutch be harder on your drivetrain. I can only see it being harder on your leg!!
 
I don't have any experience with a higher pressure clutch but here are my thoughts anyway.

The only thing that I can see a higher pressure clutch being useful for is higher horsepower applications. Basically all the higher pressure clutch will do will clamp the clutch disk to the flywheel with more force. This will allow the clutch disk to not slip and thus last longer when using more torque and power at the crank (so gearing doesn't apply). So basically I don't see any advantage of getting a higher rated clutch with a stock motor. I'd just grab the 900lb rated one. Just grab a good one like you were suggesting. My buddy and I replaced his worn out clutch with a Napa one. We had to replace it again because the throw-out bearing started squeaking in a week. We replaced it with another Napa clutch and the same thing happened. So... Don't get a Napa clutch.

Also, I'd just machine your flywheel. I highly doubt it needs to be replaced. It's just a big chunk of steel used to add momentum to the engine system to smooth the engine out. Kind of like an electrical capacitor in a circuit.

1) Will the 1200# clutch decrease my ability to "feather" into gear?

I think you will be able to feather but you're going to have to strain more to do it.

2) I assume that I'll have to push harder to disengage the clutch and it will be about 30% more effort for my leg. Is this correct?

This makes sense to me. Unless you are adding different master cylinder or increasing the distance between the pedal and the pedal pivot you are going to have to push harder.

3) Will the 1200# clutch increase wear on my transmission, drive train, master cylinder or pedal bracket at all?

It may wear on your master cylinder and clutch pedal. I'd be more concerned about the master cylinder.

4) Will the 1200# clutch assist me in low range 4x4 operation while off-roading? If so, how? (I typically wheel in somewhat muddy Ohio forest trails that have camber / inclines to them. There is not much rock climbing at all in Ohio. I do plan on heading to Colorado for a week trip in 2014 with this vehicle.)

I honestly don't think it'll help. I think it'll be more of a pain because as you're trying to slip the clutch as you try to crawl up something, you're going to be straining your leg more to maintain control.

5) Has anyone used the 1200# and wished they had stuck with 900#?

No experience.
 
I spoke to WabFab about the 1200# and or ceramic clutch earlier today. He recommended the standard OEM one so that's what I'll be going with. I'll take some pictures along the way and post for all to see the joy of replacing a clutch.
 
2nd. Don't milk clutch offloading. Keep that foot away from it unless you like replacing clutches more frequently
 
Hi,

Curious why the guy from wayfab recommended OEM instead of the 1200. I've read good reviews on the 1200 from the tacoma site. One of these days I'll need to replace my clutch as well and I'll be debating if I should stay with stock or upgrade.
 
I would go with marlins clutch. It is the best clutch available for wheeling because it brings full clamping force right away. it will not overly stress the master cylinder or the slave cylinder. You will feel no difference in the feel. Ive run a bunch of marlins clutches in different rigs and they are great.
 
Rockdawg84 - I had ordered from WabFab just before reading this... However, I'm planning on just replacing the flywheel instead of taking it off and resurfacing. I'm getting that from Marlin unless it is an extended lead time. If it is then I guess I'll go to NAPA.

Tucson Mike - Wabfab only offers the 1200 pd clutch with its ceramic pressure plate. I asked him if it was possible to get the 1200 pd clutch with the standard pressure plate. He said no. We discussed my driving habits and wheeling habits and decided to go with the OEM one. It is also Aisin / Seco, just like Marlin so I assume that they would have comparable quality. Wabfab had this in stock and I wanted to do the work this weekend so that played into the decision too.
 
cordrayj1 said:
2nd. Don't milk clutch offloading. Keep that foot away from it unless you like replacing clutches more frequently
Click to expand...

I was fairly rough on the clutch as I got into off roading and was learning how to pick lines and go through obstacles. There was one specific trip where I think I pretty much killed the clutch. It was back in this February and I broke my front half shaft on the passenger side about 5 minutes into a 3 hour ride. Didn't have 4WD or low range after that and this was not the trail ride for a 2WD vehicle. I didn't have my Aussie at that point either. The video here shows the hardest and final obstacle. However, there were probably about 20 other obstacles that were 80% as hard. It was a long trip that I can't wait to repeat with my Aussie and some sliders.

4Runner recovered from ditch at end of off-roading trip - YouTube
 
Clutch replacement Round II

Well I'm back to replacing the clutch again 4 years later. I moved this past fall and towed a far too heavy trailer with lots of maneuvering that had me feathering the clutch. End result is that is on the way out and I'm going to use an heavier duty one than stock this time. I'm also paying a friend who owns a shop to do the work since I know have 2 kids and another on the way.

A few questions for the hive mind:
1) Looking for some feedback from folks on whether or not I need to replace the flywheel and rear main seal like I did in 2012 or if I can just leave them as is. My gut would tell me that I can leave them without a problem since the first ones were stock and lasted 13 years.

2) Trying to decide between the Marlin Crawler HD clutch for $309 or the Wab Fab HD ceramic clutch for $303. Since Marlin is out of stock then it may be an easy decision. Anyone else have a reputable source for HD clutches?

3) Marlin offers some heavy duty clutch plate bolts for just a few bucks. Not sure that they are necessary but wondering if it's worth it while I'm already in there.

That's the only questions at the moment. Thanks again in advance for weighing in.
 
Wow, that was four years ago already? Seems like we just had that thing apart on your garage floor.

You could just go with a stock clutch again to maintain the same drivability, and rent a uhaul pickup when it's time to yank a heavy trailer around again :)

I'm not saying a HD clutch is a bad idea, just that there is a potential for it to feel quite different.
 
scottyb said:
I don't have any experience with a higher pressure clutch but here are my thoughts anyway.

The only thing that I can see a higher pressure clutch being useful for is higher horsepower applications. Basically all the higher pressure clutch will do will clamp the clutch disk to the flywheel with more force. This will allow the clutch disk to not slip and thus last longer when using more torque and power at the crank (so gearing doesn't apply). So basically I don't see any advantage of getting a higher rated clutch with a stock motor. I'd just grab the 900lb rated one. Just grab a good one like you were suggesting. My buddy and I replaced his worn out clutch with a Napa one. We had to replace it again because the throw-out bearing started squeaking in a week. We replaced it with another Napa clutch and the same thing happened. So... Don't get a Napa clutch.

Also, I'd just machine your flywheel. I highly doubt it needs to be replaced. It's just a big chunk of steel used to add momentum to the engine system to smooth the engine out. Kind of like an electrical capacitor in a circuit.

1) Will the 1200# clutch decrease my ability to "feather" into gear?

I think you will be able to feather but you're going to have to strain more to do it.

2) I assume that I'll have to push harder to disengage the clutch and it will be about 30% more effort for my leg. Is this correct?

This makes sense to me. Unless you are adding different master cylinder or increasing the distance between the pedal and the pedal pivot you are going to have to push harder.

3) Will the 1200# clutch increase wear on my transmission, drive train, master cylinder or pedal bracket at all?

It may wear on your master cylinder and clutch pedal. I'd be more concerned about the master cylinder.

4) Will the 1200# clutch assist me in low range 4x4 operation while off-roading? If so, how? (I typically wheel in somewhat muddy Ohio forest trails that have camber / inclines to them. There is not much rock climbing at all in Ohio. I do plan on heading to Colorado for a week trip in 2014 with this vehicle.)

I honestly don't think it'll help. I think it'll be more of a pain because as you're trying to slip the clutch as you try to crawl up something, you're going to be straining your leg more to maintain control.

5) Has anyone used the 1200# and wished they had stuck with 900#?

No experience.
Click to expand...

Dont anyone listen to this post. It's a hydraulic clutch & feels & travels the same as stock except it grabs a little better. It's great for towing not just higher HP.
Thank You,
 
gannonrt said:
Well I'm back to replacing the clutch again 4 years later. I moved this past fall and towed a far too heavy trailer with lots of maneuvering that had me feathering the clutch. End result is that is on the way out and I'm going to use an heavier duty one than stock this time. I'm also paying a friend who owns a shop to do the work since I know have 2 kids and another on the way.

A few questions for the hive mind:
1) Looking for some feedback from folks on whether or not I need to replace the flywheel and rear main seal like I did in 2012 or if I can just leave them as is. My gut would tell me that I can leave them without a problem since the first ones were stock and lasted 13 years.

2) Trying to decide between the Marlin Crawler HD clutch for $309 or the Wab Fab HD ceramic clutch for $303. Since Marlin is out of stock then it may be an easy decision. Anyone else have a reputable source for HD clutches?

3) Marlin offers some heavy duty clutch plate bolts for just a few bucks. Not sure that they are necessary but wondering if it's worth it while I'm already in there.

That's the only questions at the moment. Thanks again in advance for weighing in.
Click to expand...

Marlin Crawler all the way. I love mine. Better & cheaper than stock. I would never buy anything from the Wabbit, horrible reviews online & the BBB.
 
Scramble said:
Dont anyone listen to this post. It's a hydraulic clutch & feels & travels the same as stock except it grabs a little better. It's great for towing not just higher HP.
Thank You,
Click to expand...

I agree with Scramble. I was thinking of those really grabby clutches. I have the MC 1200lb unit in my rig, it's perfect. I've driven cars with super heavy duty and overly grabby clutches and they were annoying to me.
 
I first read this and I thought, like others, that higher clamping force would require a commensurate increase in pedal pressure. After all, a hydraulic system, absent power assist, is a mechanical advantage system like any other, such as lever, screw, pulley, etc. More force out means more force in.

So I did some research. Here is an excellent article how they can design the pressure plate to provide more clamping force without modifications to the hydraulic system and without changing pedal feel. Clever engineers.

Clutch Tech Part One: The Pressure Plate, Get a Grip!
 
I'm running a MC HD clutch kit with a new OEM fly, It feels fantastic, if anything it feels lighter, but that may be because everything is well lubed and freely moving due to being new. I also used the MC HD bolts, but as I recall they seemed a little short especially with the thick split lock washers that came with them, they may have been the same length as OEM but I think the pressure plate is a little thicker. I didn't like how little threads engaged or how the washers separated when torqued down so I used thin standard washers and blue locktite on them instead.

That was 20k miles ago and everythings been dandy since.
 
While 2 years ago I recommended marlin's clutch and still think they are the best behind a 22r I am in the process of doing a clutch right now. I went with LC's clutch with the dual friction disk, ceramic on one side and organic on the other. Combined it with a lightened flywheel, and Dual Transfer cases. I'm hoping that this combination will be good. Should be finished by the end of next week. and I will update you all.


 
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