RunninInGA
New member
Ran across this today. I've never heard the story, but thought it was worth sharing.
The Battle of Athens: Restoring the Rule of Law - YouTube
The Battle of Athens: Restoring the Rule of Law - YouTube
A lesson in how to handle a DUI checkpoint
- Thread starter RunninInGA
- Start date
alaskaman
Senior Member
Here's the deal.
Life is a series of choices. Many times those choices are made by which is the worst out of several poor ones. This video is a case in point.
Drunk driving is one of the most serious issues all of us face. As an ER/ICU RN I call it The Carnage. Millions of innocent people killed, maimed and left lifeless, breathing delivered by machines until they die. Children, adults and whole families.
So in this case which is less dangerous. Answering the cop's question or making your point that you don't have to answer?
In my mind it's an easy choice. We all have a job to do in any community of laws. By refusing to participate we increase the chances that our spot will be filled by someone less worthy.
This, IMHO is a childish assertion in a world of dangerous choices.
Step up. I am not impressed.
Life is a series of choices. Many times those choices are made by which is the worst out of several poor ones. This video is a case in point.
Drunk driving is one of the most serious issues all of us face. As an ER/ICU RN I call it The Carnage. Millions of innocent people killed, maimed and left lifeless, breathing delivered by machines until they die. Children, adults and whole families.
So in this case which is less dangerous. Answering the cop's question or making your point that you don't have to answer?
In my mind it's an easy choice. We all have a job to do in any community of laws. By refusing to participate we increase the chances that our spot will be filled by someone less worthy.
This, IMHO is a childish assertion in a world of dangerous choices.
Step up. I am not impressed.
theizzardking
New member
i'd care to argue we got alot of bigger problems then DUI's 12000 deaths a year out of 300,000,000 is nothing, when compared to cancer and other problems, ALL TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS COMBINED don't even make the top 15 causes of death in the untied states.
break down
1. Diseases of the heart 28.5
2. Malignant tumors 22.8
3. Cerebrovascular diseases 6.7
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.1
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 4.4
6. Diabetes mellitus 3.0
7. Influenza and pneumonia 2.7
8. Alzheimer's disease 2.4
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis 1.7
10. Septicemia (blood poisoning) 1.4
11. Suicide 1.3
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis 1.1
13. Primary hypertension and hypertensive renal disease 0.8
14. Parkinson's disease (tied) 0.7
15. Homicide (tied) 0.7
____________________________________
i'm sorry but your knee jerk reaction to things you see in your line of work, shouldn't impede on our nations rights to move about it unencumbered.
i'm willing to bet you also see motorcycles as organ donor machines among all of the other stereotypes your profession seems to want to make about things like this, i was once a EMT for bit and know all about people in hospitals whining about DUI's and motorcycle accidents and the myriad of other stupid stuff people seem to do to themselves.
But hey that's life, you can do everything right and still get taken out in the blink of an eye, even in a perfect world were no one ever drank and drove you'd still have a very high chance of being killed by another persons poor judgments in one way or another
"5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 4.4%"
where as DUI's as far as i can tell only make up .00004 of the national death average .....basically quit being such a big girl and accept life has the possibility of death from someone eles bad choices and move on with it, you have a better chance of being murdered.
"15. Homicide (tied) 0.7 "
again, this just how i feel about it and what i think of people willing to be fearful over being free. I think the "public safety" has been blown way out of proportion, like i've said before, i'm willing to take the risk and not have my liberties impeded upon, if you're the type to think your going to get murdered in your sleep at any moment and a drunk driver is going to appear out of nowhere then i get your position, weak though it maybe, i get it, some people are just scared. fair enough, i just tend to think you're part of the problem and not part of the solution with what's wrong with out country, instead of logically looking at things, people just want to jump on band wagons and play into their own fears instead what's good for our country and what's going to be good for the future of our country. military style check points to ask you if your breaking the law are not my ideas of where our country needs to be heading.
everything is interrelated, giving up a piece of liberty over here will forever **** you somewhere else, sure it seems harmless enough for DUI's but that circumvention of the constitution for dui's in interest of public safety will be used across the board now for other things the government see's fit,at what point do they come for our guns in the interest of public saftey? i'm willing to bet more people die a year in us from gun related crime then DUI's....
just some interesting side reading,
Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist
Atta boy, johnny law & johnny military are in a big.pi55ing contest over the small numbers, the war on drugs/ alcohol will never ever be won... it will ALWAYS be available... even.if the govt subsidized it,.the black (foreign)market will always have better _______ and a lot more
$ bc of it
$ bc of it
alaskaman
Senior Member
I am always stunned, less so now, that the defense of drunk driving (and the ability to consume alcohol) prompts this kind a vehement defense.
Thanks for summing up why it's so hard to stop drunk driving. "12000 deaths are nothing"
.....good clear thinking there. Insulting as was the rest of your not so eloquent post. Each person love and cherished and killed by someone who believed just as you do.
Unbelievable.
IanB
New member
Stop trying to NERF the world and start holding people accountable for the consequences of their actions. Don't punish everyone because of the actions of a few. It's heads up hockey out there, be careful!
Nobody is defending drunk driving, if you can't see that then you aren't worth arguing with.
theizzardking
New member
this is my 1st story (among more then a few) of some of my very close friends dying in a DUI related case, i have been the DD for everybody i know since then, i only drink 4-5 times a year, maybe because of this i never really got into drinking that much.
Entertainment & the Arts | Flowers And Memories -- Inseparable Couple's Big Dreams For Future Die In Mukilteo Crash | Seattle Times Newspaper
that said.....
What's unbelievable is you're inability to accept the consequences of freedom, and you're further inability to grasp the concept that you cannot be both free and totally safe at the same time, with freedom comes risk, the risk that someone may abuse that freedom and potentially hurt or even kill you or someone you love.
You're never going to stop 100% of dui deaths and check points are just random luck, whose to say someone isn't going to crash their car drunkenly into the check point itself and kill a bunch of people, or crash 100 yards before the check point or even take another road all together and kill some on that road.
So, What? You're trading the rights of future generations for something that is literally grasping at straws? 1,200 people over the rights of millions, upon millions and generations of Americans to come? yeah, good on you buddy, you do that and feel good about yourself. keep building that prison for all of us because you feel safer, after all if they just kept us like animals in zoo's there would be no rape, murder,obesity or any of the other problems a free society faces. Think of all of the people we could save then!!!!! wweeeeeee!!!
it seems to me as if you're the one who cannot deal with reality...
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alaskaman
Senior Member
You make your choice that things are the way they are. I make the choice to improve on it. Both are correct. It's just a choice.
Be safe and well.
KidVermicious
New member
Turning the US into a police state so that you don't have to see any more accident victims is not an improvement. You make the same mistake most ER and OR nurses I've known have made, namely that you let your job fill your entire perception and it skews your priorities.
I get that you're an empathic guy, and I appreciate you for doing a nasty job I probably couldn't handle. All folks are asking is that you remember that your slice of life is a tiny one in the grand scheme of things.
theizzardking
New member
you're concept of improvement is severely flawed and limited then, improve upon 1,200 out of 2,437,163 deaths a year? 2.4 million a year go, only 1,200 from DUI's ,
yet we spend ourselves into deficits and legislate ourselves into misery because of this?
how much time and resources that could be better used elsewhere like health care or homeless programs wasted on DUI check points? i'm against this on all levels, more government spending that is just a waste and screwing with my liberty of mobility , the core principle of american liberty is the freedom of mobility....
"As early as the Articles of Confederation the Congress recognized freedom of movement (Article 4), Though the right was thought to be so fundamental during the drafting of the Constitution as not needing explicit enumeration.[4]."
guess the founding father didn't account for the stupidity that was about to come a few hundred years later, they should have mentioned it more then once for the re****s who have no basis on what freedom or liberty actually is...............
Shawn5800
New member
IMO. Many professionals have to adhere to the ethics instilled in them from day one just as law enforcement has to adhere to the law. I would expect the officers to abide by the law and know when to stop questioning me, just as im sure they would expect me to inform them of a critical design flaw in a vehicle they may be driving.
Sometimes law enforcement gets way out of hand with abuse of power, but i can damn well appreciate them getting drunks off the road.
Just my .02
Sometimes law enforcement gets way out of hand with abuse of power, but i can damn well appreciate them getting drunks off the road.
Just my .02
alaskaman
Senior Member
Trust. Such a simple thing to talk about and such a hard thing to have.
Drink all you want, be prepared to be arrested if you do it behind a wheel of your 4Runner. I have the feeling that if you nothing to hide this would not be a defensible issue for you. fyi police arrest numerous drunk drivers at the checkpoints, put them in jail and impound their vehicles.
Before they go there they see me. I attempt to talk with them about the reality of being in a trauma bay with a cop at the bedside while they stick a needle in their arm. Sometimes against their will they are forcefully restrained intubated breathing for them as their disease is so powerful that they cannot protect their own airway.
It takes about 2 weeks in total to keep them alive, and we lose some as alcohol is potent stuff for the brain. After that they go to jail, court and then home with no car, out $20K and a lawyer instead of a paycheck. Frequently they lose their families, and their homes and die on the street.
We watch a professional person go from a life working to a homeless vulture dying on the street or in our ER several years later. So when you say DUI checkpoints are a poor use of resources I simply cannot see it. I hope that your passion here is mirrored if your efforts to save a few people before they have to see someone (doctors and nurses).
America stands for the right to choose. If not answering a police officers question is where you draw the line, so be it. The fact that you continue to attempt to throw insults (truly childish) tells me that you are not being truthful. At least that is what I would assume.
Suggestions that my viewpoint is skewed miss the point. I am a leader, I support finding drunk drivers and eliminating them from society.
Alcohol is processed in the body as a sugar. So people who drink to excess do not feel it's effects so driving is just another task.
Most look at me as an example to live up to and to follow........and thank goodness for it. The reason I participated in this thread was to challenge the OP message that somehow not answering the question was a manly right American anti Nazi thing to do. And of course to educate fellow 4Runner owners.
As I have stated not stepping up and taking pride that you have not drunk and driven is a childish fit. There are much better ways to exercise your angst. If it a thrill in standing up to the unequal demands of a police officer go for it.
As I said we can have our own opinions. Yours may place you in jail...which is less fun than the ER. Many police officers will create a situation to arrest you irregardless of how you appear, what you have done or how you have had to drink. That IS the real world. Better mind your manners around those guys. Trust me, it is a far harsher place.
They have a set of rules for people who refuse to engage as a citizen. Right or wrong those rules exist. Now you can say that is a fascist state and you might be right. But to err on the side of caution to take a person to jail if they are drunk is a proper decision and sometimes the right things happen for the wrong reason.
Either way, the goal is to get drivers who are impaired off the streets. By confronting a cop you may get a rush and I hope that you will dedicate as much energy to helping others as you would. The thing is in other circumstances I would stand with you. Not on drunk driving. It is a crime. It should be punished. Why you would run the risk of entering that world by refusing to answer a cops question is one of the most foolish thing I have seen.
Choose well your battles.
theizzardking
New member
Obviously I'm choosing them well for here i am with you, my angst is either from your lack of reading comprehension, my inability to reiterate the same fact in such away you can see this is wrong or you just being a lazy bugger all together and not reading the whole thread, never did i say i would be disrespectful to a cop just doing his job, never did i say i wouldn't answer the questions, those guys don't write the policies, so why ruin their nights and cost everyone time and money ? That's just as re****ed as the the check points in the first place .
Obviously you don't want try to see the danger in allowing these checkpoints and the further implications it could have on future law and legislation that's fine , but i have lived in countries with no need for probable cause and trust me that's not freedom, we got it good here , don't screw it up for all of us .
alaskaman
Senior Member
Fortunately I don't have that kind of power. My argument is with the OP not with you. Strong opinions frame relationships.
RunninInGA
New member
What's your argument with me? My opinion on this is nearly identical to izzardking. Had you read through this thread instead of skipping to the last page, you'd read where I stated I would (and have) answered the cops questions at these stops. I'm not disputing at all the fact that impaired driving (including texting, applying makeup, reading the newspaper, etc.) is a very large issue and creates unsafe conditions needlessly. My trouble with it is that there are far better (and documented) options of combatting the problem of drunk driving than the occurrence of DUI checkpoints (which are more often used to spot other offenses otherwise not seen, ie a fishing hole), but these talking points have been beat to death in this thread.
Bahnstoermer
New member
Hilarious. Doubt that it would end so easily all the time though.
RunninInGA
New member
Any of you guys see that Independence Day DUI checkpoint video?
