A lesson in how to handle a DUI checkpoint
- Thread starter RunninInGA
- Start date
KidVermicious
New member
Wow, that's ugly. [MENTION=67598]RandyDaytona[/MENTION] (or any other officers on the board), if you don't mind me putting you on the spot, how are you fellows taught to deal with a situation like that? Leaving aside the issue of whether the kid is correct that his rights were violated, what sort of guidance do you get from your department? Would your boss say those officers handled that correctly?
If you can't answer that, that's cool. I'm not planning on staging any protests myself, I'm just curious.
If you can't answer that, that's cool. I'm not planning on staging any protests myself, I'm just curious.
Nervo19
Member
If the dog alerted on the vehicle they could have towed it to a secure lot and dismantled the vehicle down to the tiniest compartment that could hold an illegal substance or residue of an illegal substance. It generally would take waiting for the crime scene folks to come in for their regular shift to process it and they are not going to call them out in the middle of the night and pay overtime. There is implied consent in my state and if he is driving he has to produce his O.L. as well as registration to the vehicle so it's wise not to be a douche. The general objective is to get scummy assed murdering drunk drivers off the road, having lost a young family member to one, I support their mission.
The dog has to pass lots of certification tests with the court so good luck throwing his "testimony" out. Is it worth the $175 + an hour a lawyer will charge you if the used car you're driving has "residue" from a former owner?
I find it better not to learn my rights from a boy with no other hobbies on Youtube.
The dog has to pass lots of certification tests with the court so good luck throwing his "testimony" out. Is it worth the $175 + an hour a lawyer will charge you if the used car you're driving has "residue" from a former owner?
I find it better not to learn my rights from a boy with no other hobbies on Youtube.
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zstampe
New member
People need to remember that driving is a privilege not a right. Checkpoints are perfectly legal. That being said if I was that officer I would've waived him on through. Not worth my time dealing with people like that and the driver wasnt slurring his speech or i didnt detect any impairment. You need to be smarter than the suspect. If I pull someone over and I'm going to have them get out of the car (and i think i'll get resistance) to field test them or arrest them I'll tap on they back of the car and say "hey come here for a sec I need to show you something. 9 times out of 10 stuff like that works.
blue dog
New member
You get what you give. Sure the cop was a bit of a douche, but the kid brought on the treatment that he got. It would take less time to roll down the window and be on your way. It is the same with the a$$hats that push the open carry and taunt the cops in a way that they are stopped and questioned. Ever been on cal guns ? those fanatic morons do more harm then good to there own cause.
Now, i lost a great friend to a drunk driver, and i have no problem with random checkpoints. Think Random checkpoints are against your constitutional rights, then stay off the road. This same mentality is displayed form the dillholes that do not want to answer any questions when crossing the border, it is all a waste of time and effort and only makes these guys { like the kid in the video above } look like bigger idiots.
You will be treated as you treat others, very simple.
zstampe
New member
:beer:
I wish more people I encountered had this attitude. And these are words that I live by regarding respect.
alaskaman
Senior Member
Given the video tape if it survived, you may have a right to sue. The fact that it happened at a DUI checkpoint further complicates this but that is only a side issue. The dog did not alert, yet the police searched the vehicle clearly without any probable cause.
Be bold. Take your attorney or friend with you and show it to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney a couple days after you send it to the AG of the State. See if they come up with an answer.
DUI checkpoints save lives. The conduct shown in this video by the police needs to be checked.
Does anyone think we got our freedoms by saying "yes sir I'll do what you say">?
Be bold. Take your attorney or friend with you and show it to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney a couple days after you send it to the AG of the State. See if they come up with an answer.
DUI checkpoints save lives. The conduct shown in this video by the police needs to be checked.
Does anyone think we got our freedoms by saying "yes sir I'll do what you say">?
RandyDaytona
New member
I'm on a slow connection, so the video isn't working very well. I had no audio, and all I got to see before it locked up was the subtitling "it was perfectly legal for me to have my window down this much and we could see and hear each other clearly..."
That being about the only specific thing I can address, I'll say this much: the officer is not asking you to roll your window down just to facilitate communication. It's also so that he can see your hands, i.e. for his own personal safety and - ultimately - yours as well. When you refuse to do something as simple as rolling down your window, you think you're simply exercising a right, while he thinks you're doing something he doesn't want you to see. Something which could ultimately harm him or someone else. I bring this up because the perceptions of the individual are usually not the same as those of the officer, which may be why people assume some things to be "perfectly" OK, while an officer does not, leading to confrontation on some level.
Here's a common term which isn't actually used in any of the reports I've ever written, but which could probably be used to effectively sum up many interactions with people who feel the need to display their "rights" while simultaneously filming it for youtube fame: "a$$hole."
This goes not only for this guy, but the "don't tase me bro" guy, some of the open gun carriers, and everyone who loves to see how far they can push it, with the primary interest being fame - not making a case for a legally-given right (which is done in a courtroom - not on the street).
Regardless whether one believes this is a violation of the 4th Amendment, it's obviously legal in the location where this is going on. So this officer is doing a job that obviously has the force of law behind it in that jurisdiction. If you disagree, don't drive there. And again, if you think it should be changed, take it to court - i.e. the place where unjust laws get changed. Don't grandstand or try to put on a show, potentially putting yourself or others at risk.
As far as what I would do or what my agency expects... My job is not to perform traffic stops. I've done them in my career, but it's not my mission, nor am I anywhere near as good at them as the guys and gals who do it all the time.
That said, I have dealt with people like this in the field and my reaction has always been to be professional and polite, record everything (not for youtube, but to protect myself), and make a note of their identifying information for future reference. And to share with my colleagues. If they're clearly doing something illegal, any chance at discretion is gone by virtue of behaving like an a$$hole, and they're getting a ticket, a la the "get what you give" rationale, which almost always holds true.
Now, what the officer CAN do in a case like this is refuse to allow the person to continue with whatever legal privilege they're currently exercising. For this guy: "OK, you're not going to be driving anywhere unless you submit to this checkpoint...".
But as the officer, you have to decide if it's worth it, based on your limited interaction with the guy. Is he just a moron, or is he a drunk, using the argument of exercising his legal rights in order to get out of the checkpoint? If it's the latter, he needs to stop, period, because you're talking about putting lives at risk. If he's just a tool, it may not be worth the hassle. The officer could always let him go, jot down his tag number, and mail him a summons for refusing to submit (or whatever the violation is in that state).
But that's a decision to be made at the time, by the officer on the scene - not by me, looking at an internet video several days later. I have no idea how long this officer may have been out there or what kind of night he was having, and despite the goal of being professional, he's human, just like the rest of us.
Tough issue, because DUI is most definitely a serious problem. And as much as I hate to admit it, it's not taken as seriously as it should, especially here in the midwest.
That being about the only specific thing I can address, I'll say this much: the officer is not asking you to roll your window down just to facilitate communication. It's also so that he can see your hands, i.e. for his own personal safety and - ultimately - yours as well. When you refuse to do something as simple as rolling down your window, you think you're simply exercising a right, while he thinks you're doing something he doesn't want you to see. Something which could ultimately harm him or someone else. I bring this up because the perceptions of the individual are usually not the same as those of the officer, which may be why people assume some things to be "perfectly" OK, while an officer does not, leading to confrontation on some level.
Here's a common term which isn't actually used in any of the reports I've ever written, but which could probably be used to effectively sum up many interactions with people who feel the need to display their "rights" while simultaneously filming it for youtube fame: "a$$hole."
This goes not only for this guy, but the "don't tase me bro" guy, some of the open gun carriers, and everyone who loves to see how far they can push it, with the primary interest being fame - not making a case for a legally-given right (which is done in a courtroom - not on the street).
Regardless whether one believes this is a violation of the 4th Amendment, it's obviously legal in the location where this is going on. So this officer is doing a job that obviously has the force of law behind it in that jurisdiction. If you disagree, don't drive there. And again, if you think it should be changed, take it to court - i.e. the place where unjust laws get changed. Don't grandstand or try to put on a show, potentially putting yourself or others at risk.
As far as what I would do or what my agency expects... My job is not to perform traffic stops. I've done them in my career, but it's not my mission, nor am I anywhere near as good at them as the guys and gals who do it all the time.
That said, I have dealt with people like this in the field and my reaction has always been to be professional and polite, record everything (not for youtube, but to protect myself), and make a note of their identifying information for future reference. And to share with my colleagues. If they're clearly doing something illegal, any chance at discretion is gone by virtue of behaving like an a$$hole, and they're getting a ticket, a la the "get what you give" rationale, which almost always holds true.
Now, what the officer CAN do in a case like this is refuse to allow the person to continue with whatever legal privilege they're currently exercising. For this guy: "OK, you're not going to be driving anywhere unless you submit to this checkpoint...".
But as the officer, you have to decide if it's worth it, based on your limited interaction with the guy. Is he just a moron, or is he a drunk, using the argument of exercising his legal rights in order to get out of the checkpoint? If it's the latter, he needs to stop, period, because you're talking about putting lives at risk. If he's just a tool, it may not be worth the hassle. The officer could always let him go, jot down his tag number, and mail him a summons for refusing to submit (or whatever the violation is in that state).
But that's a decision to be made at the time, by the officer on the scene - not by me, looking at an internet video several days later. I have no idea how long this officer may have been out there or what kind of night he was having, and despite the goal of being professional, he's human, just like the rest of us.
Tough issue, because DUI is most definitely a serious problem. And as much as I hate to admit it, it's not taken as seriously as it should, especially here in the midwest.
RandyDaytona
New member
While I still can't view it, given the comments I've seen on how it went down (dog alerted, car searched) I don't see where the law was violated by the officer. Even if a dog alerts and there turns out to be nothing, the officer won't be held liable because - at the time - he thought there was a valid reason to search.
"Protect and serve" at a DUI checkpoint is more about protecting and serving OTHERS than it is about the guy who doesn't feel like he wants to be detained for an extra 30 seconds.
Personally, if it could save someone's life by taking a drunk off the road, I'll stop and cooperate, to include the interminable hassle of rolling my window all the way down...
alaskaman
Senior Member
I agree with you in concept. The description of the video shows the dog did not alert but was used as a tool to fake an alert to search the car. In addition when the officer points out the video camera and audibly says "it's on" the camera is pushed aside. In this instance they clearly violated his rights. That said I completely agree with you that it's a minor thing to inform the officer that you have not been drinking. To assert your rights at a time when these people are trying to enforce safety and keep people alive is childish IMHO. Drunks kill people on the road. In this instance the cops were violating the law. To use it as a hammer against reasonable questions is not being such a good citizen IMHO. We live in the same world. Let's play fair on both sides.
alaskaman
Senior Member
They faked the alert of the dog to search his car.
It does not matter if I believe him and your last question is silly.
Thai
Elite Member
I am a conservative...but one with half a brain (or more, i hope!)...and all i will say is...STFU and get over yourself! Just answer the damn question and drive on! Don't freaking create a dumbass scene to slow everyone else down behind you! I could give a rat's ass what your personal beliefs are...i just want to be home after a hard day at work to see my family and to spend time with them. If you're such a badass, then go down to city hall and run for office to make a difference! Doing it this way via Youtube style is dumb and fu*king annoying! And one day, you may get shot by some crazy guy in the back trying to get home for an emergency!
I care more for when cops go overboard for no apparent reason. If you fu*k with them, then yeah, you deserve being anal probed...many times!!
I care more for when cops go overboard for no apparent reason. If you fu*k with them, then yeah, you deserve being anal probed...many times!!
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RunninInGA
New member
How about this guy. I never intended for this thread to be a collection and I really don't go searching for these videos.
derekabraham
New member
Look at all the goddamn cameras in this ****er's car. These guys are obviously doing this to provoke these incidents. If you act suspicious, prepare for the consequences.
I've been through that same checkpoint at least 20 times, it takes maybe 10 seconds for you to roll down your window, tell the officer where you're going while they do a quick visual scan of your car, and you're on your way. Hell, most of the time they tell you to "drive safe" or "have a nice day".
I've been through that same checkpoint at least 20 times, it takes maybe 10 seconds for you to roll down your window, tell the officer where you're going while they do a quick visual scan of your car, and you're on your way. Hell, most of the time they tell you to "drive safe" or "have a nice day".
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BrianSD_42
New member
Dude I have been through that exact checkpoint plenty of times. ICE is just trying to keep America safe and enforce the law.
I just don't believe that a person driving on government highways has a guaranteed constitutional (state or federal) right to not be stopped and questioned by the police. The roads are public property and the government has a right to stop anyone they want, anytime, at the minimum just to talk.
The fact that the guy in the video appears to be Caucasian only helps to reinforce the fact that the police are not stereotyping based on race/ethnicity.
All the officers ask is for you to roll down the window and talk to them. They can then look around in the car, most Americans accept this. You still have a right to privacy of your belongings and the trunk as long as you don't give consent.
I am more offended by the police practice of cloning peoples cell phones during a traffic stop to fish for evidence of a crime. That is a common practice in many parts of America. For this reason you should always keep your Android phone encrypted and turn it off when pulled over or going through the airport. If a police officer takes your phone away and it is unlocked then he/she can look through all your emails and text messages. If you use GMAIL then they can search your entire mail account on the spot. Pretty sketchy to me.
Besides I feel like there is a strong counter to the DUI checkpoint and it is social media technology. Apps like WAZE allow average citizens to be alerted to DUI checkpoints and avoid them.
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blue dog
New member
Hah ! got his attention right quick then. So what did he think was going to happen ? CBP guys are the most underpaid agency of all. In my rational, by not answering questions, or rolling down your window for the LEO, or CBP, You have something to hide, and that is enough probable cause right there to detain and search you and your vehicle. So basically, these guys ask for this treatment.
Bottom line is that these guys are just doing there job. checkpoint, border, checking out a open carry etc etc.
Anyone been to NYC since 911. In Manhatten you are subject to search at any time for any reason the LEO's see fit, especially in the subway. Look suspect, maybe wearing a big jacket on a warm day etc etc . Don't like it, don't go there.
Bottom line is that these guys are just doing there job. checkpoint, border, checking out a open carry etc etc.
Anyone been to NYC since 911. In Manhatten you are subject to search at any time for any reason the LEO's see fit, especially in the subway. Look suspect, maybe wearing a big jacket on a warm day etc etc . Don't like it, don't go there.
