? about the invoice

S

SWEED

New member
Ok, I am new at this guys and need some help understanding the invoice. Is the dealer the only place you can find the invoice and how do you know that the invoice they show you is really legit? I know what invoice is, but not sure I can trust the dealers to show me the real thing. It could be some print out that they made up. Any help with this would be great.

Zoey, Sweed's wife
 
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nated05 said:
Try this website they have a pricing section with MSRP, Invoice, and TMV (True market value) for any new car. Seems to be accurate from what ive seen.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyota/4runner/index.html
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Edmunds is a good place to start, but they don't list all of the options that most 4runners come with. Let me give you an example of what the price difference is between MSRP and the Invoice. Example: a new 4runner Sport V8 AWD, well equiped had a MSRP of $35,641 the Invoice price is $32,001 and with a $1,000 rebate it would cost you $31,001. You can expect most dealers too add a processing fee of between $100-400 (what ever they can get away with). How when you look at the invoice you will know about what the difference should be. Expect to pay anywhere between invoice minus rebate to a few hundred over invoice minus rebate and count on them adding a processing fee of a couple of hundred $$. But the real area to watch is what they give you for your trade-in. You can count on them offering you $3000-$5000 less then what they know they can sell your trade-in for. Count on it if you have a trade-in your going to get screwed. :( A good guide for trade-in value is www.kbb.com
 
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If your really serious about finding out the invoice price, dealer incentives, and holdbacks, check out www.fightingchance.com.
I believe their service costs 34.95 and they give you all the info you could ever want on any kind of car purchase. They have a plan that will give you the lowest price you can get.
Consumers Report also has a service that will give you the info you are looking for. I think their price is 12.95 per car or something.
www.fightingchance just raises the bar higher. Well worth the cost, you'll save many times the cost of the service.
 
You guys have given me some good places to start doing my homework. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I could still be confused, but it seems like the MSRP varys when I go to the sites to "build" my 4runner. Does the MSRP stay constant or does it vary from region to region? The Edmunds price for a SE 4x4 with the moon roof being the only option is different than the exact same thing at the web site of a local dealer. It is off about 300.00. Is my dealership hiding something in there? Also, when building at the Toyota.com site, it has the moon roof as part of the sport package. I didn't think it was part of the package and am confused why they are doing this. Thanks, again. I have been lurking a while and learning a lot!!!!
 
SWEED said:
You guys have given me some good places to start doing my homework. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I could still be confused, but it seems like the MSRP varys when I go to the sites to "build" my 4runner. Does the MSRP stay constant or does it vary from region to region? The Edmunds price for a SE 4x4 with the moon roof being the only option is different than the exact same thing at the web site of a local dealer. It is off about 300.00. Is my dealership hiding something in there? Also, when building at the Toyota.com site, it has the moon roof as part of the sport package. I didn't think it was part of the package and am confused why they are doing this. Thanks, again. I have been lurking a while and learning a lot!!!!
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The dealers MSRP is higher because they have more equipment on it then you can put on one at the edmunds site. Example most dealers include the 115V AC adapter which adds $100, floor mats and cargo mats for $186, exhaust tip by valor for $69, double decker cargo system for $125, auto dimming rear view mirror with compass for $150. The dealer add these extra to increase the price plus most of them are things you would want on your 4runner. A good rule of thumb if you are looking at buying a Sport V8 AWD would be $3500 off MSRP plus another $1000 off for the rebate. So look at the MSRP and take $4500 off and you are at a great deal. If you end up at $4000 off MSRP including the rebate you got a good deal. If you end up at $3500 off MSRP you paid a little too much. This should make it easier to gauge how you are doing. Are you trading in a vehicle?
 
You need to keep in mind that only certain regions of the country only receive certain packages or options. In the Rocky Mtns all 4runners come with x-reas, in CA they can't find a 4runner with x-reas unless they go outside the region to purchase it.
Go to Toyota.com and put in your zip code and it will tell you how the 4runner is optioned for your region.
Pitbull is right, sometimes the dealer will add things that they think most people will want on the vehicle.
 
Ok, I don't know why I wasn't getting this before, but you guys have really helped! Thanks so much!

Pitbull, you say rule of thumb is 3500 off a v8. What would a v6 be? I don't have a trade in so this should make it a lot easier!!!

00328, you say it is hard to find one in Ca with x-reas. You were speaking of a v8, correct? All v6 comes with xreas no matter what region, right??

Zoey(who understands this so much better!)
 
I wanted to clarify thart I am looking for an SE 4x4 v6. I realized I hadn't said that I wanted an SE.
 
"ALWAYS CALL THE DEALERSHIP AND TALK TO THE INTERNET SALES MANAGER" that way you get the straight deal without having to deal on the numbers with a salesman and salesmanager. You then have your deal set before you go to the dealership and only need to confirm the numbers. The Internet sales manager will have you come to the dealership and may have a salesman assigned to you to help you with the test drive and vehicle selection but you won't have to go through the "sales game".

I don't know what the rule of thumb would be for a V6, but it would be close to the $3500 plus the rebate. But I think the rebate is only $500 for the V6 versus $1000 for the V8. I would just ask for a copy of the invoice and compare it to the MSRP to make sure you are talkin the same numbers. All SE's come with REAS, your right it is part of the SE package. I recommend the V8 because it only gets 1 mpg less then the V6 and it is one of the best engines on the market. Same engine that is used in the Lexus GX470 and with the rebate difference it only costs you about $700 more then the V6 model. Without a trade this should be simple. You tell the internet sales manager at the dealership that you want to buy for invoice. They will tell you they sell for $300 over invoice minus the rebate, plus a $129 processing fee and taxes. You make an appointment go drive the 4runner of your choice. Look at the MSRP, look at the invoice to confirm your getting close to $3500 off MSRP and it is the real invoice. Buy the vehicle. The only other thing they might throw at you is sometimes dealer try to write in advertising cost/fee on the invoice, don't let them do that. If a advertising fee is part of the invoice from Toyota then it is OK because they are getting charged that amount from Toyota but if they are "writing it on the invoice then it's BS and don't pay it. Good luck
 
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I am understanding everything you are telling me. You guys make this sound sooo easy!!! I am still wondering if because I called ahead and they know I will want to see the invoice, is there any way of making sure that the invoice they show me is legit and not a doctored up one to benifit them?

I am sure once I get going on this and see everything I will realize how dumb these questions must be, but I sure do appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.
 
SWEED said:
I am understanding everything you are telling me. You guys make this sound sooo easy!!! I am still wondering if because I called ahead and they know I will want to see the invoice, is there any way of making sure that the invoice they show me is legit and not a doctored up one to benifit them?

I am sure once I get going on this and see everything I will realize how dumb these questions must be, but I sure do appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.
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I think the best "free" way to check would be to price your vehicle out via edmunds. Yes it will not be able to price all of the options that might be on the vehicle you are looking at you will be close on price so they won't be able to totally fool you. Call the Internet manager. They can email the MSRP pricing sheet on the vehicle they have in stock that you will be looking at. You can then price it on edmunds to get your invoice price est. then when you go in to drive it and make the deal they can give you a copy of the invoice.
 
Thanks! You guys are the best for helping me out.

Pitbull, I appreciate the time you took to help me understand this. Wish me luck!! I will let you all know what happens.
 
All great advice, so be sure to follow all that listed here. I used cars.com & edmunds.com very heavily, lots of good reading on the forums.

One correction - the rebate for the V8, at least in CA, is $2000 which according to Toyota ends on July 31, 2005. Now this is also region dependent. Some regions it's $1750.

cars.com Toyota rebates

I'm picking up my new 2005 4Runner 4x4 Sport V8, gray (wanted the blue, but only choices with the goodies I wanted were white, black, gray). 6-Cd changer, sunroof, other usual toys. :D

Yes, not too many V8 4x4 Sport's in southern California this late in the model year, but found a nearby dealer that actually had 5 of them. Few other dealers had other option combo's, but no sunroof or no CD changer. Yeah, could go aftermarket cheaper, but less hassle factor right now.:awais:

After oodles of test drives, tons of research on cars.com and edmunds.com (and buying the vehicle reviews), I narrowed my choices down to the 4Runner, Pathfinder, Explorer. Was torn between the Pathfinder & 4Runner, since the PF fits my physically a little better and it's a bit bigger inside all around, but has a sketchy reliability/quality record. Plus it's the '05 PF is in it's 1st model year. Followed good advice to skip the 1st model year of anything new. So will just have to get used to the 4Runner :bouncy:

I went thru cars.com, built my 4Runner, then sent out for bids. Got calls/emails with 1/2 hour, wound up going to same dealer my buddy bought his Highlander from. Had also been there for 2 or 3 test drives. Went right to fleet/internet office, got the price which was not too far off of the invoice price from cars.com/edmunds.com, signed on the dotted line, plunked down the big $$ and will go pick it up this afternoon. Did get the $299 (fleet price so the guy claimed, $499 list :rolleye2: ) car alarm, maybe got a little screwed on that. I'm sure aftermarket is maybe 1/2 that, but I'd waste a day ($$) getting it installed somewhere else anyway. Avoided the 7 year warranty, blah blah blah, financed thru my credit union.

Was actually pretty painless once I made the choice. I dealt with waaaaaaaayyyyyyy too many clueless saleskids while out looking :jester: I knew more about the vehicle than they did. :D
 
You'll never ever really know.

Tehy can show you the invoice. But they won't show you what they get for hold backs, that is what the factory will pay them back at the end....normally about 2-3% with Toyota, or 3-4 for GM/Ford. When they say "invoice" that's just a piece of paper. You also won't know how much the yget back as rebates for hooking you up to Toyota financing. Financing can add $6,000 or more on top of the cost--and a cool $500-$1,000 can drift back to the dealer. You also don't know how much they get as rebates or help in their floor plan, or help for advertsing. Dealers get extra bonuses from factory for selling their quota for the month, etc. Then comes the insurance and extended warranty..they get a cut of the take as well.

I don't haggle over the last nickle and dime. They get to make a fair profit, and I get to get a fair discount. If it falls somewhere in the Edmunds TMV price, I say let's do it. Of course, it depends if the salesman has been fair nad courtesous or if he is a jerk. If he is a jerk, I walk and find another dealer or salesman. IF the salesman makes it a pleasant shopping expereince, I don't haggle that much. I hate buying a car that turns into an excercise in aggravation.
 
Re: You'll never ever really know.

olliebear said:
I don't haggle over the last nickle and dime. They get to make a fair profit, and I get to get a fair discount. If it falls somewhere in the Edmunds TMV price, I say let's do it. Of course, it depends if the salesman has been fair nad courtesous or if he is a jerk. If he is a jerk, I walk and find another dealer or salesman. IF the salesman makes it a pleasant shopping expereince, I don't haggle that much. I hate buying a car that turns into an excercise in aggravation.
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Yup, I agree ! Not worth haggling over a few $100. Fleet/internet sales folks were very accomodating & pleasant to deal with at Carson Toyota, in Carson, CA (SoCal).

Amusingly they had to walk out the previous guy that was looking at the same 4Runner I just bought. Apparently things turned rather unpleasant and they escorted him to the curb. :D
 
Does anybody understand what sales price they use to base the sales tax on and what would be a good deal to pay on tax if you worked a deal out for "on the road"? Say for a typical 05 4runner v8 sport msrp 35500.
 
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Scotty said:
Does anybody understand what sales price they use to base the sales tax on and what would be a good deal to pay on tax if you worked a deal out for "on the road"? Say for a typical 05 4runner v8 sport msrp 35500.
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In my state you pay the difference between the sales price of the 4runner and the value of the trade-in. example 4runner price $32K minus trade-in value of your car say $15K = taxes will be paid on $17K with a sales tax rate of 4% your taxes would be $680.00 Hope that helps. Could be different in your state. Just ask the salesmen how they figure the sales tax and when you pay it. In my state you don't pay the sales tax until you register your car and get your tags (you don't pay it at the dealership) I'm in Missouri.
 
Pitbull said:
In my state you pay the difference between the sales price of the 4runner and the value of the trade-in. example 4runner price $32K minus trade-in value of your car say $15K = taxes will be paid on $17K with a sales tax rate of 4% your taxes would be $680.00 Hope that helps. Could be different in your state. Just ask the salesmen how they figure the sales tax and when you pay it. In my state you don't pay the sales tax until you register your car and get your tags (you don't pay it at the dealership) I'm in Missouri.
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I didn't have a trade in but heres what they did for me. By the way they are real good at manipulating numbers. Basically they reduced the sales price down $2000 (1000 rebate +1000 coupon) and taxed that at 5.8%. However I payed somewhere in the 4000 to 4500 range below MSRP. The total cost on the road everything tax and liscence was $2000 under MSRP. I believe I got a good deal from what I read here? What do you think?
 
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