Advice needed: horn not working

[seatia]

I bought 2 clock springs for less than $30 from eBay or Amazon, don't remember which. Quick and easy install and everything works again

 

[mike5]

This problem just started for me as well. The steering wheel dead center = no horn. Turn the wheel and horn works. So that tells me wiring / fuse / relay is good.

I also researched a bunch of threads on this issue, bottom line is that it's the clock spring.

So the question becomes whether you want to pay up to $700 for the part, or risk buying one off ebay / Amazon which are third party. My biggest fear with going in this direction with aftermarket is that the airbag harness connects into the clock spring. I don't want to risk not having my airbag work when I need it.

There are some on eBay that appear OEM but $300, but then that makes me question it. Then there are some that don't include the steering angle sensor, so you have to transfer yours. Not a big deal I think. Only catch is that the sensor has to be dead center, which buying brand new guarantees but second hand requires you to figure out.

 

[ArthurKotb]

I'm telling you guys, before you spend hundreds of dollars on a clockspring, remove it then spray WD-40 down the steering shaft (something to catch the leaking oil on the floor). I had exactly this same problem on my 99 Sienna and it's the steering shaft bearing getting rusty and not making a good ground. I did this in 2019, 3 years ago, and no problems since then.

It's possible that it's the clockspring but the WD-40 is a cheap thing to check before you open your wallet. If that doesn't fix it then you can try replacing the clockspring. You haven't lost anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8g87FX1VBM

 

[jhmoore]

The hi-lo horns should each have a connector going to them. Usually that wire just pulls off from the horn. The horns are grounded to the car so you would just apply voltage from the positive post of the battery to where the connector was. That should blow the horn. Be careful with the jumper wire, don't touch any metal other than the connector tab on the horn

I found a video of testing a horn by directly connecting it to the battery, and the horn and connector looked very similar to mine... they connected where the wire comes into the horn to the negative of the battery and touched the positive from the battery to the hole in the middle of the side of the horn. I can't get the screw out of the hole in the middle of the side, but connected near that and it does not sound the horn.

Here's a video of the test. Valid test? Horn itself broken?

- YouTube

Edit: I also tried it your way on the other horn... nothing, no sound.

 

[jhmoore]

With the motor off, when you press the horn button you should hear a clicking noise. (you may need someone else to press the button. The relay could be under the dash or in the fuse box in the engine compartment.) That's the horn relay. If you don't hear that click then the relay isn't getting any power so it can't engage.

Finally had my daughter sit in the drivers seat and press the horn on the steering wheel while I listened near the fuse box. I'm still not sure where the relay is, but I could totally hear it. If I can hear the relay, then the clock spring is not broken, right?

Relay working. Fuse good. And see my test of directly powering one of the horns when removed from the vehicle ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2457roopxk&feature=youtu.be )... all of which I think lead me to believe that the problem is that both horns are dead. While not as cheap as a fuse, that'd also not be as expensive as a clock spring...

 

[ArthurKotb]

I found a video of testing a horn by directly connecting it to the battery, and the horn and connector looked very similar to mine... they connected where the wire comes into the horn to the negative of the battery and touched the positive from the battery to the hole in the middle of the side of the horn. I can't get the screw out of the hole in the middle of the side, but connected near that and it does not sound the horn.

Here's a video of the test. Valid test? Horn itself broken?

- YouTube

Edit: I also tried it your way on the other horn... nothing, no sound.

The entire metal body of your car is negative/ground. There is a wire that comes from the relay to the horn. It should be near the horn. (see photo) That wire is positive. You didn't have to remove the horn to test it, but it appears to me that your video shows it hooked up backwards; positive to the horn body and negative to the input voltage. I'm not sure that it makes a difference. The sound coming out was not normal. It should have been quite loud. Positive wire from the battery connects to the input tab on the horn (not the body). Hold the negative wire firmly to the metal part of the horn, but don't touch the positive and negative together; lots of sparks. You probably didn't make a good connection.

Finally had my daughter sit in the drivers seat and press the horn on the steering wheel while I listened near the fuse box. I'm still not sure where the relay is, but I could totally hear it. If I can hear the relay, then the clock spring is not broken, right?

Relay working. Fuse good. And see my test of directly powering one of the horns when removed from the vehicle ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2457roopxk&feature=youtu.be )... all of which I think lead me to believe that the problem is that both horns are dead. While not as cheap as a fuse, that'd also not be as expensive as a clock spring...

When you press the horn button you are closing contacts in the steering column that engage a relay. When the relay engages it closes a circuit that provides power to the horns. The relay could still click and have bad contacts, preventing power from going to the horns (but not likely). If you are measuring 12 volts at the wire that connects to the horn, when someone presses the horn button, then the relay is good and the horn is getting power. Some cars have a jumper wire from one horn to the other. Some have 2 separate wires. (The reason for the relay is because of wire thickness. The wire from the contact in the steering column is small, because all it has to do is close a circuit to the relay. The relay engages and closes the circuit on much thicker wires because the horns draw more amperage.)

If you have done the test on both horns and one doesn't work and the other one just makes that funny noise in your video, then I would say the horns are bad. You won't get shocked, you're working with only 12 volts DC, much too low to shock you. Get a good solid connection to the horn's body (negative) and the input contact (positive). The horn should be really loud if you have a good contact.

In my attached image you see the 2 horns on my 04 T4R. You can see the wire on the right one. The wire for the left horn is hidden by the horn. Something I've not noticed before is a set of wires on the left going to a small holder. This is probably a fuse to protect the wires from overloading. I'm not sure because I've not seen this on other cars.

You don't need to remove the horns to test them but it's looking like they're both bad. There is one more test you could do if so inclined and if you have a multimeter. Plug the wire to the horn to the red/positive lead of the multimeter. Clip the negative lead to the body or negative post on the battery. Set the multimeter to DC volts in the 20 volt range. Blow the horn. Meter should show 12 volts DC.

If you are satisfied with your tests, buy 2 new replacements; hi and low. (I'm a pack rat and I would keep the old horn that still works. Something to test with or give to someone else.)

 

[jhmoore]

There is one more test you could do if so inclined and if you have a multimeter. Plug the wire to the horn to the red/positive lead of the multimeter. Clip the negative lead to the body or negative post on the battery. Set the multimeter to DC volts in the 20 volt range. Blow the horn. Meter should show 12 volts DC.

Thanks for all the advice and good suggestion about the multimeter now that I can easily get at the horn & wiring. This photo shows the results of another daughter holding the horn down while the multimeter was connected -- positive to the connector going to one of horns, negative to the battery negative. Should have thought of this test myself, but clearly I'm new to this stuff and even more new to electrical.

Looks like I'm buying new horns.

Thank you!!!

 

[jhmoore]

This problem just started for me as well. The steering wheel dead center = no horn. Turn the wheel and horn works. So that tells me wiring / fuse / relay is good.

I also researched a bunch of threads on this issue, bottom line is that it's the clock spring.

So the question becomes whether you want to pay up to $700 for the part, or risk buying one off ebay / Amazon which are third party. My biggest fear with going in this direction with aftermarket is that the airbag harness connects into the clock spring. I don't want to risk not having my airbag work when I need it.

There are some on eBay that appear OEM but $300, but then that makes me question it. Then there are some that don't include the steering angle sensor, so you have to transfer yours. Not a big deal I think. Only catch is that the sensor has to be dead center, which buying brand new guarantees but second hand requires you to figure out.

At the moment, it seems like my issue is not the clock spring, but if it was I probably would just the dealer to fix it (and be really mad about the cost). I'm new to vehicle repairs & while I'm trying to do things myself and learn, messing with the drivers airbag seems like maybe a bridge too far right now.

 

[ArthurKotb]

Thanks for all the advice and good suggestion about the multimeter now that I can easily get at the horn & wiring. This photo shows the results of another daughter holding the horn down while the multimeter was connected -- positive to the connector going to one of horns, negative to the battery negative. Should have thought of this test myself, but clearly I'm new to this stuff and even more new to electrical.

Looks like I'm buying new horns.

Thank you!!!

Yes, if you're getting power at the wire then it's definitely the horns. I had the very same thing happen years ago on a '91 Camry. I bought a new horn relay and put it in; nothing. I never thought both horns would go out at the same time. I went to the JC Whitney site (remember their catalog?) and found some horns for about $20 or so. They lasted over 12 years, until I finally donated the car to Goodwill when it was 29 years old.

Glad it's working out for you. You can see if NAPA has the horns but you may need to buy from Toyota. Anyway, you've found the problem. Clean off any rust from the bolt on area and you're good to go.

 

[jhmoore]

Yes, if you're getting power at the wire then it's definitely the horns. ... Glad it's working out for you. You can see if NAPA has the horns but you may need to buy from Toyota. Anyway, you've found the problem. Clean off any rust from the bolt on area and you're good to go.

New horns arrived today & installed. Problem solved. Sucks that Toyota charges so much for the parts (about $150 total for both the high and low horns), but sure beat the heck out of a new clock spring!

Final result:

Horn not working, part 4 - YouTube

Thanks so much for everyone's help, especially [MENTION=701042]ArthurKotb[/MENTION] !

 

[RBLACAUSA]

The entire metal body of your car is negative/ground. There is a wire that comes from the relay to the horn. It should be near the horn. (see photo) That wire is positive. You didn't have to remove the horn to test it, but it appears to me that your video shows it hooked up backwards; positive to the horn body and negative to the input voltage. I'm not sure that it makes a difference. The sound coming out was not normal. It should have been quite loud. Positive wire from the battery connects to the input tab on the horn (not the body). Hold the negative wire firmly to the metal part of the horn, but don't touch the positive and negative together; lots of sparks. You probably didn't make a good connection.



When you press the horn button you are closing contacts in the steering column that engage a relay. When the relay engages it closes a circuit that provides power to the horns. The relay could still click and have bad contacts, preventing power from going to the horns (but not likely). If you are measuring 12 volts at the wire that connects to the horn, when someone presses the horn button, then the relay is good and the horn is getting power. Some cars have a jumper wire from one horn to the other. Some have 2 separate wires. (The reason for the relay is because of wire thickness. The wire from the contact in the steering column is small, because all it has to do is close a circuit to the relay. The relay engages and closes the circuit on much thicker wires because the horns draw more amperage.)

If you have done the test on both horns and one doesn't work and the other one just makes that funny noise in your video, then I would say the horns are bad. You won't get shocked, you're working with only 12 volts DC, much too low to shock you. Get a good solid connection to the horn's body (negative) and the input contact (positive). The horn should be really loud if you have a good contact.

In my attached image you see the 2 horns on my 04 T4R. You can see the wire on the right one. The wire for the left horn is hidden by the horn. Something I've not noticed before is a set of wires on the left going to a small holder. This is probably a fuse to protect the wires from overloading. I'm not sure because I've not seen this on other cars.

You don't need to remove the horns to test them but it's looking like they're both bad. There is one more test you could do if so inclined and if you have a multimeter. Plug the wire to the horn to the red/positive lead of the multimeter. Clip the negative lead to the body or negative post on the battery. Set the multimeter to DC volts in the 20 volt range. Blow the horn. Meter should show 12 volts DC.

If you are satisfied with your tests, buy 2 new replacements; hi and low. (I'm a pack rat and I would keep the old horn that still works. Something to test with or give to someone else.)

Currently experiencing Horn Hell with my '04 4Runner and my searching brought me to this thread among others on T4R. I'm not certain but I am pretty sure that the gizmo that you think is a fuse, is actually a sensor of some type, likely outside air temperature sensor.

 

[AuSeeker]

Currently experiencing Horn Hell with my '04 4Runner and my searching brought me to this thread among others on T4R. I'm not certain but I am pretty sure that the gizmo that you thing is a fuse, is actually a sensor of some type, likely outside air temperature sensor.

Without going out to my 4runner and looking, if that "gizmo" is the one on the center grill support, then yes it is indeed the "outside air temperature sensor" I have had to replace mine and that's where it is.

 

[ArthurKotb]

Currently experiencing Horn Hell with my '04 4Runner and my searching brought me to this thread among others on T4R. I'm not certain but I am pretty sure that the gizmo that you think is a fuse, is actually a sensor of some type, likely outside air temperature sensor.

Yeah, 3 years ago I didn't know what that was. Now I do; it's the outside temperature sensor.

 

[henley]

I’d consider the horn fuse/relay and the steering-wheel horn switch or clock spring, since the panic button still activates the horn.