Aftermarket front rotors

[jambo]

Are Brembo, Baer, Wilwood or another "premium" brand of front rotors available for a 5th Gen, 4x4 4R ? I was curious of the price and if they bolt right on without any modifications.

I got these
LUK SCHAFFER ? Sports Brake Rotors for every vehicle! » XD Brake Rotor
not worth the money I think. If I was to do it again I would stick with original equipment. The only difference is my abs does not come in every time I press the brake pedal quickly. I have to apply brakes really hard for abs to kick which is what I like.

 

[philsey]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

[MENTION=32290]gm350reratliff[/MENTION]

[MENTION=76550]cbielat[/MENTION]

[MENTION=69060]Renegad44[/MENTION]

[MENTION=84766]jambo[/MENTION]

I'm curious guys. Is there any objective data to support any sort of better performance or longevity for these aftermarket products? Any of these mfgrs actually test their products against stock? No one cited a thing.

I mean, this truck S.T.O.P.S. .... and no one is racing it, right? Inquiring minds ....

 

[Renegad44]

I'm running crossed-drilled/slotted on my Corvette because of the enhanced cooling of the rotors (drilled) and cleaning (slotted) that they provide. It's an opinion type thing but I have been running crossed drilled/slotted for probably 12 years now with no problems at all. So, maybe for my 4Runner and wife’s Lexus it’s more aesthetic, but for my Corvette, running “spirited twisties” at 130/140mph they sure haven’t hurt my stopping/slowing down power. You either like them, or you don't. :cheers::thumb3:

NASCAR supports slotted rotors as a way of cleaning the pads.

The link's below explains the aspects of drilled rotors/dimpled rotors (gassing out), and slotted rotors (cleaning).

Why Cross-Drilled/Slotted Rotors and Big Brake Kits are More Ineffectual than You Think

What Are Dimpled Rotors?

Slotted Brake Rotors vs. Plain Brake Rotors

 

[cbielat]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

[MENTION=32290]gm350reratliff[/MENTION]

[MENTION=76550]cbielat[/MENTION]

[MENTION=69060]Renegad44[/MENTION]

[MENTION=84766]jambo[/MENTION]

I'm curious guys. Is there any objective data to support any sort of better performance or longevity for these aftermarket products? Any of these mfgrs actually test their products against stock? No one cited a thing.

I mean, this truck S.T.O.P.S. .... and no one is racing it, right? Inquiring minds ....

Philsey, I didn't break out the measuring tape and all the scientific data to test when I opted for the aftermarket set up. I'll leave that to [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] lol. I went with the aftermarket rotors and pads just to try them out. I have never had any "performance upgrades" on any of my past vehicles so I figured why the hell not. I'm not a pro race car driver so I can't really tell the difference. It seems like it stops a little quicker from what I have been used to. I don't think going with an OEM set up again is inferior at all to the aftermarket.

 

[TOY2G]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

[MENTION=32290]gm350reratliff[/MENTION]

[MENTION=76550]cbielat[/MENTION]

[MENTION=69060]Renegad44[/MENTION]

[MENTION=84766]jambo[/MENTION]

I'm curious guys. Is there any objective data to support any sort of better performance or longevity for these aftermarket products? Any of these mfgrs actually test their products against stock? No one cited a thing.

I mean, this truck S.T.O.P.S. .... and no one is racing it, right? Inquiring minds ....

Finding objective data is hard to do for the simple fact most "data" on a performance rotors is gathered and published by the people trying to sell them.

Here is what i know to be true. on my 2003 limited i lost my brakes coming off of Imogene Pass into Ouray (the long down hill county road back into town) it was a bit of a white knuckle experience. I use my manual shift to engine brake but when the vehicles in front of you are slowing down constantly you have to use the brake. long story short, i was standing on the brake to get it stopped in a small turnout about 3/4 of the way down. So what i know is brake fade can come on very quickly if your rotors cannot dissipate the heat fast enough.

I have mixed feeling about drilled and slotted rotors, for one there is less surface area, and this could translate into less stopping power. this is covered somewhat subjectively HERE

But also covered in the above article is the dissipation of brake gas (over gassing pads is what causes the effect i experienced).

I have run Drilled and slotted rotors on my Limited and my SR5 and i do not feel much difference if any in stopping "power", what I do feel is the security that I am doing something to prevent brake fade and if I recreate the situation in which I lost my brakes before I hope to fair a little better.


Here is a fact:

Cheep Rotors, OEM or performance are NOT worth the few bucks you will save. Buy quality brake components, they may save your life.

 

[eddiebx]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

[MENTION=32290]gm350reratliff[/MENTION]

[MENTION=76550]cbielat[/MENTION]

[MENTION=69060]Renegad44[/MENTION]

[MENTION=84766]jambo[/MENTION]

I'm curious guys. Is there any objective data to support any sort of better performance or longevity for these aftermarket products? Any of these mfgrs actually test their products against stock? No one cited a thing.

I mean, this truck S.T.O.P.S. .... and no one is racing it, right? Inquiring minds ....

The most objective data you need to test and compare is very simple here. "Do the brakes engage ABS in a panic stop?" If the answer is yes, then nothing else you do will really help stop you any faster since you've exceeded the coefficient of friction between the ground and your tires. At least for me, my factory brakes can and will engage ABS in a panic situation so I know the factory brakes are not what's keeping me from stopping even faster. Factor of the matter is all the slots and drilled holes in the world won't stop you any faster if your factory brakes already engage ABS

All that stuff about initial bite, clamping friction between pads and rotors, yada yada are pretty much a moot point if your tires are sliding. The one factor that varies here is heat holding capacity before brake fade. I don't drive my truck hard enough to have experienced brake fade yet, so I really don't know how well this truck's brakes are in that department.

As far as longevity goes, how much longer do you want them to last? I've read here on numerous occasions of people getting 50-60k out of a set...that
's pretty darn good! You can certainly find a pad that will last longer than OEM. Pads are much like tires, if you get a taxi cab tire with rock hard rubber, those can easily out last a super soft summer tire, lol.

Just go check out a lot of grass root racers' brake setups...you'll notice that more often then not they run any good ol' "blank" rotors along with top dollar super aggressive brake pads that can handle the right amount of heat they plan to throw at it on that particular track. Pad selection for them is critical here depending on the track configuration because generally speaking a pad that is good for higher heat requires warming up vs. a pad that offers great cold stopping power but gives up a bit on the heat capacity. This is important for them because if a track is setup with low speed turns only you're never going to get the pads hot enough to perform at peak efficiency; and if a track has a lot of high speed turns, you're likely going to fade you pads if you select the wrong ones.

This exact concept is applicable to us daily drivers because if you mindlessly go and throw on the "best" pads that hold tons of heat and never fade, you might also inherently be throwing on a set of pads that perform like shiet when cold. This means terrible at emergency stopping situations because who plans ahead of time to warm up their brake pads for an emergency?

Usually, OEM pads are gear towards better cold performance and less heat holding capacity...so research aftermarket pads before selecting one. Don't do what I did in my college days and get all "race" products because obviously race cars stop faster right? They don't when it's for daily driving duty, ask me how I know :doh:

 

[jambo]

Finding objective data is hard to do for the simple fact most "data" on a performance rotors is gathered and published by the people trying to sell them.

Here is what i know to be true. on my 2003 limited i lost my brakes coming off of Imogene Pass into Ouray (the long down hill county road back into town) it was a bit of a white knuckle experience. I use my manual shift to engine brake but when the vehicles in front of you are slowing down constantly you have to use the brake. long story short, i was standing on the brake to get it stopped in a small turnout about 3/4 of the way down. So what i know is brake fade can come on very quickly if your rotors cannot dissipate the heat fast enough.

I have mixed feeling about drilled and slotted rotors, for one there is less surface area, and this could translate into less stopping power. this is covered somewhat subjectively HERE

But also covered in the above article is the dissipation of brake gas (over gassing pads is what causes the effect i experienced).

I have run Drilled and slotted rotors on my Limited and my SR5 and i do not feel much difference if any in stopping "power", what I do feel is the security that I am doing something to prevent brake fade and if I recreate the situation in which I lost my brakes before I hope to fair a little better.


Here is a fact:

Cheep Rotors, OEM or performance are NOT worth the few bucks you will save. Buy quality brake components, they may save your life.

I have been running cross drilled rotors on all my cars. I do a lot of driving on hilly regions where brake fade is a huge concern for me and cross drilled rotors help. Biggest disadvantage of cross drilled rotors comes when you go mudding as they are difficult to keep them clean. But then again I dont go mudding so not a problem for me. Initial braking on a cold day is poor but thats couple of stops and by the time I get to main road they are good to go. They last longer to my driving style I think. Having said all that I will agree with Antman and next time I change my rotors on 4runner I will go stock cause I did not find major difference between the two rotors. ( Cross drilled rotors cannot be refaced so two sets of pads and a complete change but that is pretty much what you get on stock rotors even if you machine them).

 

[mdogg]

Cheep Rotors, OEM or performance are NOT worth the few bucks you will save. Buy quality brake components, they may save your life.

+1.... I am not at all convinced that cross-drilling does anything positive (outside of appearance). Nearly all of the literature on the topic suggests that it might have improved braking performance 50+ years ago, but not now that pad compounds are essentially gas-less. Slotting is a little more tricky as it removes less mass from the rotor, so it's not quite as detrimental to the heatsink function.

My take is that I'll stick to what the F1 guys use (except in metal since I can't afford carbon). I'd say if you get blanks or slotted from a decent company you'll be fine for regular road use.

 

[TOY2G]

Cross drilled rotors cannot be refaced

This is not accurate, this belief stems from a couple common (old) ideas.
#1 Drilled rotors are high carbon composite steel and the brake lathes cannot cut them. This was the case when the only performance rotors were Brembo, and when they were new to the to the market Ammco (most common manufacture of brake lathes) said they could not be done. Fact is, now most lathes can do both high carbon steel and driller rotors

#2 if you cut a driller rotor it will crack at the holes. this is the case if you go past run-out. now for the record most (most) brake rotor manufacture have gone to rotors that are already at run-out, so you cannot turn them and you are forced to buy a new set. But run-out is the same for all rotors in the aspect that you do not want to machine a rotor past the run-out limit. So if you have a rotor that worn but is still 20 thousandths above run-out, you can cut 10 thousandths off of each side, and if the surface is defect free you can (in theory) run them until the next brake change. Over heating and cracking can and does happen to all rotors if they are "abused" in any way, over heated, rapidly cooled (driven through an icy creek in the mountains when they are hot), machined past run-out or any other form of abuse. there are alot of factors involved in making a rotor crack and simply blaming it on drilled rotors is just an old practice from a time when little was known about them in the US market.


For reference, my EBC rotors came 35 thousandths over run-out on my Tacoma, the same truck Wagner premium rotors came at 2 thousandths over run-out and could not be machined.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

Drilling and slotting are basically nothing more than brake bling and give your rotors more of a chance to fail in the long run (does look cool though lol). Buy quality (OEM, Brembo, EBC etc...) blank rotors, and if you need to control fade, then do so through your pads. Many aftermarket pads are designed to handle much higher temperatures than stock without fading. Keep in mind that this may sacrifice some cold performance, but there are many pads out there that offer a good compromise of the 2.

 

[philsey]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

Please explain "runout".

 

[Gstick]

Thanks for all of the input. I have a feeling that my local Toyota dealership did a crappy job when they cut my original rotors in January(2013), and I'll bet that they put on the "cheap" Toyota pads. I guess that I'll buy new OEM rotors and the premium Toyota pads, and do the swap myself. Thanks again !

 

[TOY2G]

[MENTION=64685]TOY2G[/MENTION]

Please explain "runout".

Runout is the difrence between the high and the low spot of a rotor surface. It's generally used to as the term to describe both the lateral runout ( the discription above) and the minimum thickness (at the thinnest part) of the rotor.

For example. If your rotor has grooves and warping that creat a 3 thousandths runout on each surface, you would have to remove a minimum of 6 thousandths to bring the rotors back to true.

According to Accuturn (major brand of brake service equipment) you should mic the rotors and turn them down to runout. Even if you only need to take off 10 thousandths, they recommend you take the rotors down to the limit.

I hope this helps, if not I'm sure there are plenty of more technical examples online.