Alignment issue help. Pulling to right but alignment OK

[jason2000SR5]

Just picked up a well maintained SR5 with 200+K miles. Was trying to address the car's pull toward the right, which leaves me driving with the wheel turned slightly to the left most of the time.

Took it in for an alignment, and afterwards, they said it still pulls a bit to the right and when you brake, I can see the steering wheel turn to the left even with no hands.

Here is a print out, not sure why there are still red numbers after the job.

Tires are pretty new, no skakes or bad vibrations up to 80+ MPH.

Brake pads all done and about 80%+

Thanks

 

[dustin3006]

My 3rd gen does the same. Curious to see answer

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[kolelt]

Basically they didn’t align the wheel properly. It’s hard but a good shop/mechanic should be able to dial it in. Could also be your steering rack is worn out. Has play. So when they though they had it straight. It actually was of.

 

[thezentree]

Here is a print out, not sure why there are still red numbers after the job.

Because it's still not properly aligned. I would take that back and ask them to finish aligning it, or at least explain why they can't.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Just picked up a well maintained SR5 with 200+K miles. Was trying to address the car's pull toward the right, which leaves me driving with the wheel turned slightly to the left most of the time.

Took it in for an alignment, and afterwards, they said it still pulls a bit to the right and when you brake, I can see the steering wheel turn to the left even with no hands.

Here is a print out, not sure why there are still red numbers after the job.

Tires are pretty new, no skakes or bad vibrations up to 80+ MPH.

Brake pads all done and about 80%+

Thanks

You have a camber pull to the right. Camber pulls to the more positive side. Make sure when they correct it that your cross camber and cross caster are within .5 degrees.

 

[jason2000SR5]

Thanks everyone. Looks like ill need to trek over there again. Are there any other good reasons why an alignment cant be brought into spec?

 

[SodiumFlouride]

Thanks everyone. Looks like ill need to trek over there again. Are there any other good reasons why an alignment cant be brought into spec?

I've always been told that the only time you can't bring an alignment into spec is when something is "bent" or "worn" to the point that alignment isn't your worst problem anymore.

My alignment guy checks for worn suspension parts, for example, and he checks that the four wheels are aligned to each other because that's not something he could change if it wasn't.

With respect to one side having worse camber, do the 4Runners require a given weight in any particular location (often the driver's seat) like the German cars do, in order to set a give preload on the suspension?

In some German cars, for example, it's 500 pounds of weight, so it's not something that is puny.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Thanks everyone. Looks like ill need to trek over there again. Are there any other good reasons why an alignment cant be brought into spec?

Only suspension modifications and/or bent/worn parts won't allow a proper alignment.

Looking at the printout, I find it odd that the caster stayed exactly the same but the camber changed almost a degree. Camber and caster adjustments are made by the same item (eccentric bushings) and each lower control arm has 2 of them. When you change camber you also change caster simultaneously, and for those caster #s to stay exactly the same but the camber to change is a little strange. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear they didn't even put a wrench on it and just have binding front turntable plates and when they caster swept the front end(turning the wheel 10 or 20 degrees side side to side taking measurements) the wheels hopped and the camber changed but not the caster. Either that or they didn't take the pins out of the turn plates at all, which actually sounds more likely.

 

[jason2000SR5]

That is what Im concerned about...they didnt really make all the proper adjustments. I dont know how to do the work, but noticed the guy spent most of the time putting a couple wrenches to the front only. Dont remember seeing any rear work. Perhaps the difference in paying $80 vs $180 like the other place I called.

 

[gamefreakgc]

That is what Im concerned about...they didnt really make all the proper adjustments. I dont know how to do the work, but noticed the guy spent most of the time putting a couple wrenches to the front only. Dont remember seeing any rear work. Perhaps the difference in paying $80 vs $180 like the other place I called.

I've only had my 4Runner aligned at a Toyota dealership. They run specials here for an alignment for $79.99 so I wait for those and they always get it perfect. You definitely get what you pay for when it comes to auto repair since they charge by the hour for labor.

Like others mentioned, it could be worn steering parts. Since you just got it I am assuming you don't have a ton of aftermarket suspension or lift parts, it is most likely a tie rod with play in it if that's why the tech can't get it aligned. Or he just ran out of time and was told it was good enough.

 

[reelamin]

Steering rack mounts are worn out is my guess. Mine wanders at times, perfect alignment, does not wear tires. Of course the alignment shop told me that was my issue after I replaced my worn out suspension.

 

[jason2000SR5]

Is it pricey to replace the steering rack mounts? Any bad side effects of not doing it?

 

[Desertwind16v]

Well straight up they didn't align it properly. Look at those camber readings, terrible. He only messed with the front because the rear has no adjustment. I would take it back and tell them it's still not right.

Btw I see a good amount of people saying you can't align properly from worn/bent parts but you're forgetting one other thing, rust! Sometimes things just don't move anymore after years and years of rust/corrosion. I've had this be the case countless times here in Chicagoland.

You already paid for an alignment, if they can't get it right due to something out of their control they should tell you what needs to addressed to get it right.

 

[jason2000SR5]

I’m on my way back this afternooon. After going back and forth and being told I need a camber kit they agreed to have their master tech review it. I hope that will get things in order.

 

[thezentree]

Is it pricey to replace the steering rack mounts? Any bad side effects of not doing it?

Costs like $30 and a few hours of your time. Not much fun to do, but it's a cheap fix that might tighten up a loose steering feel or fix a steering wheel shimmy.

That won't affect your alignment though. Don't let them tell you your rack bushings are shot and that's why they can't get camber in spec - your rack bushings have zero effect on camber settings.

 

[IBallEngineer]

I’m on my way back this afternooon. After going back and forth and being told I need a camber kit they agreed to have their master tech review it. I hope that will get things in order.

Holy cow there is so much wrong with the way they left it! I won't overkill this here since you may report back with good news. I am still flabbergasted at how they they try to push crappy work on people. If they don't get it fixed I can share some actual alignment info with you.

 

[jason2000SR5]

Please do tell! I just got back and the guy is convinced they did the best possible and maxed out the adjustments. Said he could get more camber on the front right but it would screw up the caster and increase tire wear. His recommendation is to leave as is and rotate tires a bit more often. We did notice the front insides were wearing faster so the tires got rotated. Also said it’s possible the suspension wear create some sag which affects camber. In the end, I didn’t want to argue anymore and left. Driving home, the car tracks much better with the tires rotated. Should I eat the cost and take it somewhere else or leave as is?

 

[IBallEngineer]

Please do tell! I just got back and the guy is convinced they did the best possible and maxed out the adjustments. Said he could get more camber on the front right but it would screw up the caster and increase tire wear. His recommendation is to leave as is and rotate tires a bit more often. We did notice the front insides were wearing faster so the tires got rotated. Also said it’s possible the suspension wear create some sag which affects camber. In the end, I didn’t want to argue anymore and left. Driving home, the car tracks much better with the tires rotated. Should I eat the cost and take it somewhere else or leave as is?

OK, now remember this is the internet, and I couldn't put it on here if it wasn't true!

Seriously though, I'm flying blind without driving and seeing your suspension, but some things are easy to see. You pull to the right because the right side is more positive(top leans out) by 1.6 degrees. Picture your bicycle leaning 1 and a half degrees to the right, it's gonna go right. Now he may have maxed out your adjustment, but that doesn't mean it is fixed. The included angle, And SAI are both way low on the left, the IA was already low, the SAI became low when he tried to fix it. Now a simple way to describe IA is the difference between SAI and Camber, but I'll put it another way. Picture the Camber angle in relation to your strut, if it is closer, it is lower, farther means the IA number would be higher. You are closer! So that means what?

Well that means something is bent! That something is most likely the spindle, because the SAI was good before the MONKEY touched it, which means the lower arm(lower ball joint) and strut were in the correct location. So if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Spindle being bent. That said, we have to assume nothing else is shady, like ball joints or such.

So yes, eat the money, or demand it back, and find a good alignment shop that knows what they are doing. I'm not selling equipment anymore so I can't help you find a shop in your area anymore. Ask some body shops, they always need this sort of help, so they may point you in the right direction.

I'll eat my hat if it's not the spindle( I don't wear hats but I like how that sounds!)
:guitar3:

Check out this page to explain what SAI and IA are!

https://www.alignmycar.co.uk/sai-included-angle/

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Please do tell! I just got back and the guy is convinced they did the best possible and maxed out the adjustments. Said he could get more camber on the front right but it would screw up the caster and increase tire wear. His recommendation is to leave as is and rotate tires a bit more often. We did notice the front insides were wearing faster so the tires got rotated. Also said it’s possible the suspension wear create some sag which affects camber. In the end, I didn’t want to argue anymore and left. Driving home, the car tracks much better with the tires rotated. Should I eat the cost and take it somewhere else or leave as is?

Ok, further debunking...

First of all, you don't need a "camber kit" Other types of vehicles use camber kits which will increase the adjustment range but I've never heard of one on our trucks. Just by them saying this means they don't know what they are talking about and are just trying to squeak a few more dollars out of you. Hell, if someone told me that, I'd say "yea put that "kit" on there and I would ask to see said kit.

Secondly, see how much caster you have? You are at the top end of your caster which means you have plenty of range to turn the eccentric in the other direction. Also, caster is NOT a tire wearing angle (at least in the way camber and toe are)

Think about it. Millions of these trucks out there with stock suspensions that have perfect alignments. Guess you got the one that can't be aligned. How sad.

With that said, part of an alignment tech's job is to identify worn or bent parts. Wouldn't you want to know if you had a bent spindle or worn tie rod ends. Well, that is what the alignment machine is for and a good alignment tech can look at alignment readings (properly attained) and ascertain the problem and fix it THEN do the alignment.

Take it somewhere else. For him to say leave it as it is shows his integrity and knowledge. If it were me, I would ask for my money back for the alignment as they really did nothing.

 

[jason2000SR5]

Ugh. Thanks for the education guys. I’ll wait till the next oil change and rotation to do the alignment at the dealer. Lesson learned!