1engineer
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So Katt Williams would be just as good to get perspective.
America this week, what the hell?
- Thread starter amalik
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So Katt Williams would be just as good to get perspective.
If you can't relate then what's the point? I don't even know who Katt Williams is but if anything he says resonates, I certainly will listen.
Elan_
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Bollocks. My opinions are informed from every single piece of media I consume. Whether it be CNN, FOX, BBC, NPR, Al Jazeera or The Daily Show.
Every media outlet has an agenda. You can pretend your favorite outlets don't but they all do. It's your and my job to think and reason on what we hear to form our own opinions based on everything that we consume. Dismissing opinions based solely on who's saying them is foolish.
Jernik
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I've been thinking about this post for a few days... I'm not sure about the racial war thing. Reason being, unlike 60 years ago, more Americans than ever have mixed friends/family.
These events bring out some weird, raw, initial reactions when they happen. But when you calm down and rationalize your initial reaction, you start to think about your mixed friends/family. Do these people really represent my friends/family because their skin is the same color? I say not.
Immigration. How can I not think of/consider my neighbors? We have a couple of Mexican families on our cul de sac, and we are friends with them. They are great people.
Then there is the man from Mali who my wife used to work with. We have had him, his mom, sister, kids over. Or how about another neighbor, a black American man who is a retired police officer who hangs out with us sometimes? Or other friends/coworkers of various ethnicities?
I'm not saying my circle is the most diverse, or that I'm a world class champion of equality. My associations are still by and large with other white, middle class people. I grew up in a poorer, rural, nearly 100% white area and grew up with my main understanding of minorities coming from unfavorable stereotypes. Thanks to leaving that area and having some great experiences with wonderful people (often very patient, understanding beyond what they could have been with my ignorance), I cannot rationally look at the things happening today and blame these actions on any entire race of people. If I say or think something bad about black people or Mexicans (or any other race/culture), I have to think "but what about my friends and neighbors? They are not like that. Surely I don't know the only handful of (insert race/culture) that are the exception."
I could not see any situation where I would want to take up arms and declare war on my fellow Americans because they are black/mexican/asian etc. people. Thatwould require me to declare war on my friends and neighbors (and their families). That is not right. I suspect there is a great majority of Americans that feel the same as I do.
The question is, how do we reach these areas that are (typically) poor, where the races are generally segregated, and ignorance (like I grew up with) is all that is known? How do we get these people to grow, to become more educated, to see for themselves that race does not define the worth/good of a person?
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Good post Jeremy, seems like you have an open mind and are actually thinking about a viable solution from more than one perspective. It really is difficult to walk in someone else's shoes but sometimes it's necessary. Not everyone cares to or can...
BrianSD_42
New member
I can assure you that it is possible to be against Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement without having any beef against "Black people".
The BLM movement's smashing windows, burning buildings and attacking cops does not represent Black People in America. Not to me and I hope not to anyone on this forum.
I read this question as "how do we solve America's poverty problem?" and the answer is far from simple or even apparent. Neither the Republican or Democratic parties (with exception of Bernie Sanders) have even begun to address the wave of poverty haunting many millions of Americans in 2016.
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MudPie
New member
How about those peaceful protests this weekend... At this point BLM and domestic terrorism are synonymous.
On the bright side, one of BLM's prominent figures and propagandists, DeRay McKesson, was arrested in Baton Rouge. He should have seen that coming since he's been actively promoting lies used to incite violence against police since he got involved in Ferguson. Word to the wise... If your going to make false accusations against the police on a national scale I suggest you not give them a reason to arrest you.
Here's a pic of DeRay sporting the disproven "Hand's Up, Don't Shoot" pose.
Dumbass.
On the bright side, one of BLM's prominent figures and propagandists, DeRay McKesson, was arrested in Baton Rouge. He should have seen that coming since he's been actively promoting lies used to incite violence against police since he got involved in Ferguson. Word to the wise... If your going to make false accusations against the police on a national scale I suggest you not give them a reason to arrest you.
Here's a pic of DeRay sporting the disproven "Hand's Up, Don't Shoot" pose.
Dumbass.
BrianSD_42
New member
I don't think calling them terrorists helps anything. My definition of terrorism is a foreign ideology conducting attacks on America. BLM is clearly anti-cop, down the to the core. To support BLM is to support an anti-police movement.
BTW that guy will be released. He was arrested for not walking on the sidewalk.
BTW that guy will be released. He was arrested for not walking on the sidewalk.
Labeling BLM as terrorists has wide and far reaching consequences, it will likely cause more challenges to constitutional rights........we have all read our insurance policies after 911, even here in Canada and I can assure you the insurance companies would love the definition of a terrorist to be expanded. To label BLM as a terrorist group will have consequences that I certainly am not comfortable with.
Do I think the group could have had a more politically correct name, yes. AFAIK, "All Lives Matter" would easily serve the same purpose and would likely appeal to a more mainstream American. I am of the opinion that the use of term terrorists should be thought out before being throw out. A drone/robot has now been used on US soil to eliminate a US citizen and yes he was a killer that was racially motivated (a racist more than a terrorist) that give me cause to stop and ponder the long term ramifications of such actions.
He got what he deserved but he was a racist not a terrorist.
Do I think the group could have had a more politically correct name, yes. AFAIK, "All Lives Matter" would easily serve the same purpose and would likely appeal to a more mainstream American. I am of the opinion that the use of term terrorists should be thought out before being throw out. A drone/robot has now been used on US soil to eliminate a US citizen and yes he was a killer that was racially motivated (a racist more than a terrorist) that give me cause to stop and ponder the long term ramifications of such actions.
He got what he deserved but he was a racist not a terrorist.
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BrianSD_42
New member
From today's Face The Nation.
Giuliani: Blacks must say "what they're doing among themselves about the crime problem" - CBS News
<embed src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/video/cbsnews_video.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#000000" width="620" height="387" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="pType=embed&si=254&pid=V7LywtB5vJmU&uuid=01779137-cfe8-4e6d-8a38-a7fdefb4b480&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/rudy-giuliani-black-lives-matter-is-racist-anti-american" /><div class='cbs-resources'><span class='cbs-more'>View More: </span><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com/live/' class='cbs-link'>Live News</a><span class='cbs-pipe'>|</span><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/' class='cbs-link'>More News Videos</a></div><style type='text/css'>.cbs-link {color:#4B5054;text-decoration:none; font: normal 12px Arial;}.cbs-link:hover {color:#A7COFF;text-decoration:none; font: normal 12px Arial;}.cbs-pipe {color:#303435;padding: 0 2px;}.cbs-resources {height:24px; background-color:#000; padding: 0 0 0 8px; width: 612px;}.cbs-more {font: normal 12px Arial; color: #4B5054; padding-right:2px;}</style>
Giuliani: Blacks must say "what they're doing among themselves about the crime problem" - CBS News
<embed src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/video/cbsnews_video.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#000000" width="620" height="387" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="pType=embed&si=254&pid=V7LywtB5vJmU&uuid=01779137-cfe8-4e6d-8a38-a7fdefb4b480&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/rudy-giuliani-black-lives-matter-is-racist-anti-american" /><div class='cbs-resources'><span class='cbs-more'>View More: </span><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com/live/' class='cbs-link'>Live News</a><span class='cbs-pipe'>|</span><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/' class='cbs-link'>More News Videos</a></div><style type='text/css'>.cbs-link {color:#4B5054;text-decoration:none; font: normal 12px Arial;}.cbs-link:hover {color:#A7COFF;text-decoration:none; font: normal 12px Arial;}.cbs-pipe {color:#303435;padding: 0 2px;}.cbs-resources {height:24px; background-color:#000; padding: 0 0 0 8px; width: 612px;}.cbs-more {font: normal 12px Arial; color: #4B5054; padding-right:2px;}</style>
MudPie
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BLM is just as much anti-white as it is anti-cop. Add a sniper, black panther militants, motolov cocktails and a bunch of stupid ****ing people and you have yourself the makings of a bonafied domestic terrorist organization or we could just refer to them as Progressives.
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BrianSD_42
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I can see how it could be perceived as anti-white but I don't believe that, mainly because there are an enormous amount of white people in its ranks.
Here in San Diego the BLM protesters temporarily shut down the I5 North right around La Jolla area and caused a major problem the Tuesday before Thanksgiving last year.
The a-holes shutting down the freeway were at least 50% white college students and the people who couldn't get to work were easily 50% non-white. San Diego is very diverse and far different than a city like Atlanta which is primarily White/Black.
Here in San Diego the BLM protesters temporarily shut down the I5 North right around La Jolla area and caused a major problem the Tuesday before Thanksgiving last year.
The a-holes shutting down the freeway were at least 50% white college students and the people who couldn't get to work were easily 50% non-white. San Diego is very diverse and far different than a city like Atlanta which is primarily White/Black.
-JD-
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^Wow. Just wow. Maybe its the "Trump effect" making it now okay to say blatantly racist things to the media.
He seems to completely overlook the significant fact that police killings differ from 'black on black' crime in that police are put into a position of authority to protect the public and enforce the law. So it absolutely IS a much bigger deal when someone who is entrusted with that duty murders a member of the public and breaks the law.
He almost immediately gets to saying that black kids need to learn how to be respectful to police officers, I dont think he even mentioned the need for reform amongst police.
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MudPie
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BrianSD_42
New member
First - Michael Brown was not murdered. Look up the definition of murder in the United States.
And the guy in Minnesota was killed by an LEO but that has not been determined to be murder. We don't have any video of the altercation, only the aftermath. We know he had a gun. We know the officer was afraid and killed him. That is all we/you know.
Second - You-all do understand the concept of proportional outrage right?
If let's say 100 Americans die by homicide and 99 of those killings were from neighborhood kids shooting other neighborhood kids and the 1 killing by a police officer causes so much uproar that people start looting , burning, killing because of outrage... does that make any sense to you?
It's like a complete lack of perspective and that is what the ex NYC mayor is pointing out.
In Chicago there were 468 gun related murders in 2015 among the THOUSANDS of shootings in poor mostly minority neighborhoods. It is extremely sad.
Thousands of children and teenagers shot each year in Chicago are not victims of the police. No, they were shot by local citizens. There are neighborhood bad guys mass murdering the youth of a city.
Despite the completely obvious truth (which has been written about hundreds of times in major newspaper and the web by now) that citizen on citizen violence is overwhelmingly responsible for the deaths of men of color in the US, there is still this liberal and BLM belief that black men are at risk of dying from the police. The real risk is being killed by other folks living in the same neighborhood.
I'm sure you've all heard of This American Life. It is a really good (and yes somewhat liberal) news and story telling radio show / podcast. They embedded journalists at Harper High School in Chicago for over 6 months to document life there. The entire 2 part show focuses on high school life and the MURDER problems plauging these kids in the streets. It is an every day battle just to stay alive. They do dozens of interviews with HS kids describing their life, trying to make it through HS without being killed by the neighborhood bad guys.
Here is the link ... listen to it.
487: Harper High School, Part One
Lastly -To your comment about LEO shootings being a bigger deal ... Really? Really? It is a bigger deal to you and others that two questionable police shootings occurred in two days than the hundreds of people shot by criminals in those two days?
So what your saying is it's a bigger deal to liberals if a police stop goes bad and a minority is involved than 60 people of color being shot in Chicago on the 4th of July weekend. 13 of those were homicides.
In city after city kids are mowed down by local thugs , children literally dying in the streets and their bedrooms daily yet liberals (many that I know) look away. These same people support the war on drugs, support the policies that created the ghettos in the first place, they demand the police keep "those people" out of their nice neighborhoods and schools, yet at a moment's notice they will turn around and blame the police for basically everything wrong in impoverished America today.
In short, these people are being Hippocrates and they refuse to acknowledge it.
:bat:
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_#1_
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Firstly, Trump is a nutjob. But quite entertaining because of the blatantly racist thing he be saying. And he has a lot of people in America agreeing with him!
Maybe you should move down here from Canada and live in the inner city of ANY city in the US of A and tell me who is really killing who.
When I read "black lives matter", i interpret it as ONLY black lives matter. That in itself is racist.
Now if it was worded "black lives matter too", that sounded more inclusive.
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Thefishguy77
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^^^very well said^^^
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-JD-
New member
But you do understand that BLM is a lot bigger than these two specific instances recently, right? Its about decades of systemic inequality in a variety of different forms that have all contributed to the situation we have today.
Police shootings aside there have been numerous studies that have shown black people are disproportionately stopped, searched, and arrested for things like drugs when they statistically use them at the same rate as white people.
A distrust of police leads to fewer calls when crimes do happen, more vigilante justice, etc. Higher incarceration rates lead to more fatherless homes, fewer job opportunities upon release and the cycle continues.
People point to these types of instances as extreme examples of the type of racism they feel from police. But surely there are many more racially biased encounters with police that don't end in homicide. The ones you or I likely dont see or hear about. I think you have to look beyond the statistics and try to understand WHY these issues exist within the black community to start to understand the BLM movement.
That's an odd way to look at it. Obviously 60 deaths are worse than one. But is an innocent person being killed by police worse than one being killed by a criminal? Absolutely.
I think the key to this sentence is "i interpret it as"...
The signs dont say black lives matter more.
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BrianSD_42
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Ummm no it isn't. BLM is about protesting against perceived social injustices against Black men and women by the movement that calls itself Black Lives Matter.
It isn't called Social Justice Matters. It isn't called Police Reform. It isn't called Americans against police violence. The name is narrow, racial and has little to do with decades of social problems in the US.
Myself and others have pointed out how the basis for BLM is a LIE. That the claims are broad exaggerations and yet instead of countering with facts ... I am told about decades of oppression.
I'm aware of the history of oppression of minorities in the US. It's pretty depressing. But that doesn't change the fact that the claims of BLM are a lie and that people online are jumping to conclusions before all the facts are known.
Have you read "Slavery By Another Name" by Michelle Alexander? I highly recommend you read it (if you haven't it). It is quite good plus it is very liberal and BLM approved. The author goes into detail on what caused the high crime neighborhoods and what has contributed to differing wealth status between average white families and black families over the last 150 years.
Have you checked out the journalism on what kids in Chicago have to go through? I linked it above. It is quite telling and YES it is liberal approved. Check it out. It will give you additional perspective on these neighborhoods. The same neighborhoods that cops go into day and night risking their lives to protect the citizens who live there.
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