America this week, what the hell?

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I think the key to this sentence is "i interpret it as"...

The signs dont say black lives matter more.

Were you the person recently saying that the comments section on articles, posts, blogs, etc isn't worth reading? If not you, it was somebody here if I remember correctly. And I am paraphrasing by the way - it wasn't said in these exact words.

Anyway, a vast majority of the comments and discussions that I have read strongly indicate that black lives are the only ones that matter to the majority of the BLM crowd at the moment. Anyone that suggests differently are immediately dismissed. Or shouted down with claims of racism then dismissed. Then blocked/reported to admin as inflammatory.
 
Ummm no it isn't. BLM is about protesting against perceived social injustices against Black men and women by the movement that calls itself Black Lives Matter.

Right, and it existed long before the recent incidents, and the reasons leading to its formation in the first place go back even further.


Myself and others have pointed out how the basis for BLM is a LIE. That the claims are broad exaggerations and yet instead of countering with facts ... I am told about decades of oppression.


Earlier in this thread you said that "BLM has no leadership, no rosters, no agenda, no clear goals, no clear demands, no mission." When you say that BLM is making these claims, from where are you getting this information?
I agree that the group needs more organization and leadership. There's no shortage of people acting out or making statements that aren't reflective of the group as a whole.

If you deny the idea of social injustice and oppression, to what do you contribute the increased violence in these communities?

I haven't read slavery by another name, but I don't think its written by Michelle Alexander..?
 
If you deny the idea of social injustice and oppression, to what do you contribute the increased violence in these communities?

This conversation is getting a bit vague but yes I believe there are some social injustices. However, I DO NOT THINK JOINING A F$#K THE POLICE MOVEMENT IS THE RIGHT ANSWER. In fact it is explosively divisive.

I don't deny that there exists a state of social injustice in some communities in the United States. Personally I believe money is far more of a factor than race. Money is everything but everyone (including liberals) don't want to talk about it. Instead they prefer to talk about race/ethnicity. Anything but class, anything at all.

Maybe it is because I live in San Diego which is very diverse I have a different perspective. Here there are many minorities that have lots of money. Just drive to the mall or the beach and you will see Benz, Lexus, even Bentley's with non white owners - not a few, but lots.

With every violent BLM march and every LEO attacked BLM makes America more divided. Here are just a few activities (off the top of my head) from the last few days -- and this is not comprehensive of everything that happened in the US.

/** Thursday 07/07 - Friday 07/08 **/
* Oakland, CA - BLM shut down freeways by force, threw rocks through glass windows at the police headquarters and businesses downtown. They also threw red paint on the front door of the police building.
* Dallas, TX - BLM related shooting of 11 police officers
* TN -BLM related shooting of 2 civilians and 1 police officer
* Mousouri - BLM related shooting of 1 police officer
* Georgia - BLM related shooting of 1 police officer after a fake 911 call to draw them in

/** Saturday 07/09 - Sunday 07/10 **/
* San Antonio, TX - someone shot bullets into the police headquarters Saturday night
* St. Paul, MN - BLM protesters threw bricks, rocks and bottles at police, injuring a dozen or so police
* Baton Rouge, LA - BLM protesters threw rocks and glass bottles at police, injuring several, including one police officer hit in the face and hospitalized for surgery with half his teeth knocked out
* Minneapolis, MN - BLM protesters shut down the freeway, threw rocks and threw fireworks into the police line. There are photos online of all of this
* San Diego, CA - BLM marched peacefully (thankfully but not a surprise to me)


So it absolutely IS a much bigger deal when someone who is entrusted with that duty murders a member of the public and breaks the law.

to what do you contribute the increased violence in these communities?

The media, especially social media are inflaming people and distorting the facts. It even effected you right? You clearly implied that the LA or MN police officer shooting was murder but the MN shooting occurred off camera and the LA shooting was also vague and his hands weren't visible in the cell video. So you don't know that it was murder at all. Yet you, like the president and many others (I'm guessing with more carelessness than malice) decided based solely on an online narrative that cops are murdering people and that the LA/MN shooting was murder (vs a justified shooting). This is exactly the problem.
 
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It's interesting that some members are lucid enough to understand media driven narratives in one form but naive to it in others.

There are lots of bad apples in both law enforcement and BLM, and both need to be held accountable for their crimes to the same degree.
 
The New Black Panther Party has proposed a solution...

EXCLUSIVE?New Black Panther Leader: Blacks Need to Migrate to Five Southern States, Form 'Country Within a Country' - Breitbart


"The end game is land ownership. The endgame is our own government in a nation within a nation. Okay. So we claim the states of Louisiana, we claim the states of Mississippi, we claim the states of South Carolina, we claim the states of Alabama, and we claim the states of Georgia.

We just need to start migrating back to those states and taking control of the economics in those states. If black people move in, most definitely white people will move out. So it’s not a hard process for us to have our own country within a country."

They are seeking to “develop over time to a regimented Black Army.”

"There is no way that we can totally separate ourselves in the United States of America and we are aware of that. We know that we are owed land, we are owed monies, we are owed restitutions and we are owed reparations. That’s going to be a continuing process. What we are saying right now is we want to control the economics in our community. We want to control the black dollars. The money that goes in, the money that goes out.

We want to control the politics in our community. If a politician is not bringing anything to the table for the betterment of that community, we are not going to vote for these particular people. And we most definitely want to control the education. What our people are learning in what we call the public fool system, not school system, where they are teaching and misrepresenting the true history of the black man here in the United States."
 
ben550 said:
The New Black Panther Party has proposed a solution...

EXCLUSIVE?New Black Panther Leader: Blacks Need to Migrate to Five Southern States, Form 'Country Within a Country' - Breitbart


"The end game is land ownership. The endgame is our own government in a nation within a nation. Okay. So we claim the states of Louisiana, we claim the states of Mississippi, we claim the states of South Carolina, we claim the states of Alabama, and we claim the states of Georgia.

We just need to start migrating back to those states and taking control of the economics in those states. If black people move in, most definitely white people will move out. So it’s not a hard process for us to have our own country within a country."

They are seeking to “develop over time to a regimented Black Army.”

"There is no way that we can totally separate ourselves in the United States of America and we are aware of that. We know that we are owed land, we are owed monies, we are owed restitutions and we are owed reparations. That’s going to be a continuing process. What we are saying right now is we want to control the economics in our community. We want to control the black dollars. The money that goes in, the money that goes out.

We want to control the politics in our community. If a politician is not bringing anything to the table for the betterment of that community, we are not going to vote for these particular people. And we most definitely want to control the education. What our people are learning in what we call the public fool system, not school system, where they are teaching and misrepresenting the true history of the black man here in the United States."

This is the rhetoric of a group that likely can be equated to the KKK, I don't get the point? Are you saying that this is the view of all blacks in America? What is the point of the post?
 
The leaders of this Country need not say, "these poor people have been taken advantage of for too long and ...." That is ridiculous. People need to know that despite the abundance of police corruption and their siding with with our Politicians you need to at least be calm and mostly silent with them when you are stopped or questioned.

People owning people was long ago and is not relevant today, only sensationalized. These were widely accepted practices by everyone including the Country that sold its people originally for profit. No one cares about that though.
 
The leaders of this Country need not say, "these poor people have been taken advantage of for too long and ...." That is ridiculous. People need to know that despite the abundance of police corruption and their siding with with our Politicians you need to at least be calm and mostly silent with them when you are stopped or questioned.

People owning people was long ago and is not relevant today, only sensationalized. These were widely accepted practices by everyone including the Country that sold its people originally for profit. No one cares about that though.

So you are saying that human trafficking is no longer occurring? And you are also saying that all slaves were sold into slavery by their own people so it's the fault of the sellers?.....Try telling that to authorities if you get caught buying stolen goods? I am trying to get an understanding of what you actually mean? What I take for this is every slave was legally sold so that means it was right....please correct me if I have misunderstood your post.
 
Link: https://www.facebook.com/jay.stalien/posts/911372818974402

Post in entirety here:

I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this: Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “**** the Police, I aint no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself. This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken shit and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.
 
This is the rhetoric of a group that likely can be equated to the KKK, I don't get the point? Are you saying that this is the view of all blacks in America? What is the point of the post?


I again find myself debating american politics with a canadian...

The shooter in Dallas was affiliated with this group.

Have Hillary and Bernie disavowed this group?
 
Lucid perspective, from the man who thought at light speed.

"There is, however, a somber point in the social outlook of Americans. Their sense of equality and human dignity is mainly limited to men of white skins. Even among these there are prejudices of which I as a Jew am clearly conscious; but they are unimportant in comparison with the attitude of the "Whites" toward their fellow-citizens of darker complexion, particularly toward Negroes. The more I feel an American, the more this situation pains me. I can escape the feeling of complicity in it only by speaking out." -- Albert Einstein
 
I again find myself debating american politics with a canadian...

The shooter in Dallas was affiliated with this group.

Have Hillary and Bernie disavowed this group?
Hence, I discribed the shooter as a racist.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
 
"When the Alton Sterling video surfaced, no gun in hand, pinned to the ground, both arms restrained, executed at close range; a couple of my Facebook friends commented something to the effect of "No one is going to say this is justified, right? I can't imagine." I wasn't as optimistic. The right-wing blogsophere was already alive with the "thug", "criminal", "felon", "Democrat" that got himself killed "resisting".

Growing up in a fairly conservative Christian community means I have a lot of conservative Facebook friends, a lot of conservative Christian Facebook friends. So it was within hours that there was a post in my newsfeed about the "idiot" "criminal" that got himself killed and anyone that thinks it's about race is a moron. Scrolling through the dozens of 'likes' on the post serves as a snapshot of White Conservative Christian America. It's a demographic that, to many, is increasingly synonymous with Racist Authoritarian America. That's not hyperbole. That's not being overly critical of Christians. That's our political reality. That is a widespread view and you can't blame them for it when Donald Trump is the Republican nominee.

Clearly, this partisan divide is not to be healed. There's not going to be a coming together moment. Conservative Christian America is not going to suddenly say, "You know what, let's reform police use of force protocols. Let's hurriedly get cameras on every police officer in the nation, expand oversight at the federal and state level and as we try to cure police culture while holding police officers accountable, let's deal with the heart of the issue, as well. Let's invest heavily into these impoverished communities that have 55% youth unemployment and limited opportunity. Let's raise the minimum wage, let's expand social safety nets, let's make community college tuition-free." That's not going to happen.

When you study the past 60 years of conservatism in the United States you see they've long contended that cultural problems in these communities can't be cured by government intervention and the only (so sad and so unfortunate) answer is strong, harsh policing with unconditional support for the police that risk their lives to keep it contained. Read into it deeper and you'll see conservative intelligentsia have long argued that we shouldn't empower these failed cultures to gain a foothold in mainstream America. Our culture is superior, just look at it's success in contrast to theirs (every individual responsible for their own condition, divorced from the history of racial oppression that finds them where they are). It's up to them to stop being the "bad blacks" and start living like the "good blacks" who live like white people.

We're not going to reason with this racist ideology or succeed in speaking sense to them in the next few years or even few decades. We're just going to defeat them, politically, as we always have. Change is generational."
 
Great response, lots of thoughtful time spent in constructing this. Quite helpful to your country's problems.

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LOL...seriously?! You think that arguing this issue over internet with random people in an OFF-TOPIC section of a 4RUNNER forum is gonna make huge changes to this country?

You Canadians crack me up...especially when advising citizens of other countries on how to act. :tape2:
 
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