America this week, what the hell?

[Hepar]

And what message that would be? I really want to know.
If my girl (i don`t have any)having sex in 6th grade I`m all up for IUD for her, better than unwanted bastards.

Today just thinking of a 6th grade girl having sex makes me cringe, but it's a reality. There was a girl I "dated" in the 6th grade and at the time she wanted to have sex with me. I had barely kissed a girl at the time. She ended up getting pregnant by the 7th grade and had her 2nd child before she was out of high school.

 

[Thefishguy77]

And what message that would be? I really want to know.

If my girl (i don`t have any)having sex in 6th grade I`m all up for IUD for her, better than unwanted bastards.

The fact that you "daughter" can go have a school nurse help her get a medical procedure without your knowledge or consent. That is no different than giving up a piece of your parenting rights to the state.
That's just wrong in my opinion

It's up to you the parent and the child to decide what's best for your child. Not your 11-12 year old walking up and having a stranger council them on major life changes and decisions.

If your relationship is so poor with your child that you have never talked about sex with them and it consequences. That they feel the need to have this conversation with a stranger then that says something about the parents involved in this situation.

I am sorry but I fell very strongly about family values and the family unit as a whole. The
More we abdicate little responsibilities to the outside world the less involved we are in our family and the weaker the family becomes. To the point that your family could be the equivalent of nothing more that roommates. That would be extreme but not impossible.




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[ndcent]

If only states were more conservative like Texas.

Texas has highest maternal mortality rate in developed world, says new study | The Independent

 

[Victor_inox]

The fact that you "daughter" can go have a school nurse help her get a medical procedure without your knowledge or consent. That is no different than giving up a piece of your parenting rights to the state.
That's just wrong in my opinion

It's up to you the parent and the child to decide what's best for your child. Not your 11-12 year old walking up and having a stranger council them on major life changes and decisions.

If your relationship is so poor with your child that you have never talked about sex with them and it consequences. That they feel the need to have this conversation with a stranger then that says something about the parents involved in this situation.

I am sorry but I fell very strongly about family values and the family unit as a whole. The
More we abdicate little responsibilities to the outside world the less involved we are in our family and the weaker the family becomes. To the point that your family could be the equivalent of nothing more that roommates. That would be extreme but not impossible.




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IUD is major life changing? I`m not sure I follow your logic.

Now having unwanted baby would be exactly that.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Why not? Because sh*t happens. Life circumstances can take you from being fully-covered one day and not the next. Have the bad timing of something catastrophic happening and you're screwed. But again, it's my personal opinion. Not saying that everyone should agree with me. I see both sides of the argument on this one. Just how I feel. I personally wouldn't mind my tax dollars going more towards making sure our citizens are as healthy as they can be.

S*it does happen. But with planing it can be mitigated significantly. Term life insurance is affordable for a big coverage policy. Disability insurance is also available. Now if you wait till your sick these are not an option anymore but with planing they are there if/when you need it.

Our progressive President W. Bush made it so you couldn't get out of emergency hospital bills if a crisis situation. Before that if you had an emergency come up and there was no way you could ever cover your bills as a last resort you could fill for bankruptcy. But most people don't realize that you can also file for financial aid/forgiveness from the hospital. They can wipe 80% of your bill clean and give you payment plan options. Usually interest free. Being a member of a church you can also usually turn to them for help.

Think of the money you could put towards your insurance/retirement/rainy day fund if you took .50 on the dollar of ever mod you did to your 4runners. Was buying a new 4Runner that necessary when the 4th gen was still a great rig? We have this issue with spending money we deem as necessary on frivolous items. Vs if we took that money and put it away for school/children/accidents/insurance we would be much better off. But as long as the government is there to catch us when we fall we will continue to make poor decisions because they have little consequences. It's not just 4Runner either. It all of it. Cameras, phones, firearms, houses, new furniture every few years, keeping up with the Joneses instead of being your own man.


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[Thefishguy77]

If only states were more conservative like Texas.



Texas has highest maternal mortality rate in developed world, says new study | The Independent

Sorry but until we know actual facts that story is useless. It used observers and campaigners to cite "conclusions".

Texas has one of the highest influxes of illegal immigrants. Many try to arrive just in time to give birth. Not sure how much you know about being pregnant but a high stress situation in any trimester is bad and it's deadly in the 3rd trimester. So crossing a desert being exposed to extreme weather and lack of nutrition and water is not only deadly for the child but can be for the mother as well. Not taking prenatal vitamins and not eating properly can strip the mon out of necessary vitamins. Her body is going to give the child what ever it needs even if it kills her.

How many of these deaths had full pregnancy medical coverage? You know it's the law now to have health insurance and all health insurance covers pregnancy. If these mothers didn't have health insurance then why is that? Were drugs a factor? Is a language barrier a factor? Let's wait until actual doctors look at the facts in the case and determine what is actually causing this. If it can be determined.


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[nevada]

Why not? Because sh*t happens. Life circumstances can take you from being fully-covered one day and not the next. Have the bad timing of something catastrophic happening and you're screwed. But again, it's my personal opinion. Not saying that everyone should agree with me. I see both sides of the argument on this one. Just how I feel. I personally wouldn't mind my tax dollars going more towards making sure our citizens are as healthy as they can be.

but would they be?
would they be more inclined to stop smoking, and other KNOWN unhealthy habits, now that they KNOW the government will "fix" them when the get sick?

I say no. they will know they have that safety net, and they will use it.
while the rest of us are paying even MORE tax dollars, because their are more people taking, and they are needing more due to bad choices.

if each person IS(currently they are not) responsible for their own healthcare, are they going to be more prone to make healthier choices, so as to avoid the costs associated with such behaviors?

if we held people accountable, they would have to make better choices. or suffer the consequences. no more handouts, no more safety nets. people CAN do more, and better.
they just don't have to, because someone else is there to do it for them...

Today just thinking of a 6th grade girl having sex makes me cringe, but it's a reality. There was a girl I "dated" in the 6th grade and at the time she wanted to have sex with me. I had barely kissed a girl at the time. She ended up getting pregnant by the 7th grade and had her 2nd child before she was out of high school.

according to our daughters doctor, the average age for girls to start menstruating is 9 years old. holy shit!!

I remember when I was in school, the average was like 12-13. why is it going down?

Think of the money you could put towards your insurance/retirement/rainy day fund if you took .50 on the dollar of ever mod you did to your 4runners. Was buying a new 4Runner that necessary when the 4th gen was still a great rig? We have this issue with spending money we deem as necessary on frivolous items. Vs if we took that money and put it away for school/children/accidents/insurance we would be much better off. But as long as the government is there to catch us when we fall we will continue to make poor decisions because they have little consequences. It's not just 4Runner either. It all of it. Cameras, phones, firearms, houses, new furniture every few years, keeping up with the Joneses instead of being your own man.


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exactly my point.

 

[Victor_inox]

S*it does happen. But with planing it can be mitigated significantly. Term life insurance is affordable for a big coverage policy. Disability insurance is also available. Now if you wait till your sick these are not an option anymore but with planing they are there if/when you need it.

Our progressive President W. Bush made it so you couldn't get out of emergency hospital bills if a crisis situation. Before that if you had an emergency come up and there was no way you could ever cover your bills as a last resort you could fill for bankruptcy. But most people don't realize that you can also file for financial aid/forgiveness from the hospital. They can wipe 80% of your bill clean and give you payment plan options. Usually interest free. Being a member of a church you can also usually turn to them for help.

Think of the money you could put towards your insurance/retirement/rainy day fund if you took .50 on the dollar of ever mod you did to your 4runners. Was buying a new 4Runner that necessary when the 4th gen was still a great rig? We have this issue with spending money we deem as necessary on frivolous items. Vs if we took that money and put it away for school/children/accidents/insurance we would be much better off. But as long as the government is there to catch us when we fall we will continue to make poor decisions because they have little consequences. It's not just 4Runner either. It all of it. Cameras, phones, firearms, houses, new furniture every few years, keeping up with the Joneses instead of being your own man.


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Everyone knows that savings for a rainy day great,barely anyone has any.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

 

[ndcent]

Sorry but until we know actual facts that story is useless. It used observers and campaigners to cite "conclusions".

Texas has one of the highest influxes of illegal immigrants. Many try to arrive just in time to give birth. Not sure how much you know about being pregnant but a high stress situation in any trimester is bad and it's deadly in the 3rd trimester. So crossing a desert being exposed to extreme weather and lack of nutrition and water is not only deadly for the child but can be for the mother as well. Not taking prenatal vitamins and not eating properly can strip the mon out of necessary vitamins. Her body is going to give the child what ever it needs even if it kills her.

How many of these deaths had full pregnancy medical coverage? You know it's the law now to have health insurance and all health insurance covers pregnancy. If these mothers didn't have health insurance then why is that? Were drugs a factor? Is a language barrier a factor? Let's wait until actual doctors look at the facts in the case and determine what is actually causing this. If it can be determined.


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You're the one making vague insinuations about "reckless lifestyles" and all of the sudden facts matter?

Also, did you see my proper use of "you're?" Impressive, I know.

 

[Victor_inox]

if we held people accountable, they would have to make better choices. or suffer the consequences. no more handouts, no more safety nets. people CAN do more, and better.
they just don't have to, because someone else is there to do it for them...

according to our daughters doctor, the average age for girls to start menstruating is 9 years old. holy shit!!

I remember when I was in school, the average was like 12-13. why is it going down?

exactly my point.

Do you always make better choices? what that could be, choose yourself parents, stop eating crap advertised on TV since you`ve been an infant?
early menstruating girls is what we feed them with.
Google it if you really interested.

 

[Hepar]

S*it does happen. But with planing it can be mitigated significantly. Term life insurance is affordable for a big coverage policy. Disability insurance is also available. Now if you wait till your sick these are not an option anymore but with planing they are there if/when you need it.

Our progressive President W. Bush made it so you couldn't get out of emergency hospital bills if a crisis situation. Before that if you had an emergency come up and there was no way you could ever cover your bills as a last resort you could fill for bankruptcy. But most people don't realize that you can also file for financial aid/forgiveness from the hospital. They can wipe 80% of your bill clean and give you payment plan options. Usually interest free. Being a member of a church you can also usually turn to them for help.

Think of the money you could put towards your insurance/retirement/rainy day fund if you took .50 on the dollar of ever mod you did to your 4runners. Was buying a new 4Runner that necessary when the 4th gen was still a great rig? We have this issue with spending money we deem as necessary on frivolous items. Vs if we took that money and put it away for school/children/accidents/insurance we would be much better off. But as long as the government is there to catch us when we fall we will continue to make poor decisions because they have little consequences. It's not just 4Runner either. It all of it. Cameras, phones, firearms, houses, new furniture every few years, keeping up with the Joneses instead of being your own man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

but would they be?
would they be more inclined to stop smoking, and other KNOWN unhealthy habits, now that they KNOW the government will "fix" them when the get sick?

I say no. they will know they have that safety net, and they will use it.
while the rest of us are paying even MORE tax dollars, because their are more people taking, and they are needing more due to bad choices.

if each person IS(currently they are not) responsible for their own healthcare, are they going to be more prone to make healthier choices, so as to avoid the costs associated with such behaviors?

if we held people accountable, they would have to make better choices. or suffer the consequences. no more handouts, no more safety nets. people CAN do more, and better.
they just don't have to, because someone else is there to do it for them...

Fair enough.

 

[Thefishguy77]

You're the one making vague insinuations about "reckless lifestyles" and all of the sudden facts matter?



Also, did you see my proper use of "you're?" Impressive, I know.

I'm not going to argue this with you as you and I never see eye to eye.
I told you when I responded with my reckless lifestyle choices that I had a hard time googling it. But I had been following it.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...-6th-graders-cant-get-coke-school-can-get-iud

http://www.bustle.com/articles/8734...rth-control-at-school-based-clinics-thanks-to

http://commonamericanjournal.com/school-uses-planned-parenthood-curriculum-to-teach-kids-oral-sex/

https://www.google.com/amp/chicago....rs-in-5th-grade-curriculum/amp/?client=safari

http://liveactionnews.org/planned-parenthood-curriculum-coming-to-an-elementary-school-near-you/







However you started this with a comment on an article about maternity mortality and likening it to conservatism.

And as has been said before when you start arguing grammar you really have run out of things to argue.


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[CXS]

S*it does happen. But with planing it can be mitigated significantly. Term life insurance is affordable for a big coverage policy. Disability insurance is also available. Now if you wait till your sick these are not an option anymore but with planing they are there if/when you need it.

Our progressive President W. Bush made it so you couldn't get out of emergency hospital bills if a crisis situation. Before that if you had an emergency come up and there was no way you could ever cover your bills as a last resort you could fill for bankruptcy. But most people don't realize that you can also file for financial aid/forgiveness from the hospital. They can wipe 80% of your bill clean and give you payment plan options. Usually interest free. Being a member of a church you can also usually turn to them for help.

Think of the money you could put towards your insurance/retirement/rainy day fund if you took .50 on the dollar of ever mod you did to your 4runners. Was buying a new 4Runner that necessary when the 4th gen was still a great rig? We have this issue with spending money we deem as necessary on frivolous items. Vs if we took that money and put it away for school/children/accidents/insurance we would be much better off. But as long as the government is there to catch us when we fall we will continue to make poor decisions because they have little consequences. It's not just 4Runner either. It all of it. Cameras, phones, firearms, houses, new furniture every few years, keeping up with the Joneses instead of being your own man.


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I think this may be the first time I agree 100% with [MENTION=140960]Thefishguy77[/MENTION].

That's all....

 

[CXS]

Everyone knows that savings for a rainy day great,barely anyone has any.

That's a topic on its own. As a retired "old guy" I'm appalled at how unprepared the majority of Americans are for both emergencies & retirement but have nice trucks, homes and toys.

 

[-JD-]

S*it does happen. But with planing it can be mitigated significantly. Term life insurance is affordable for a big coverage policy. Disability insurance is also available. Now if you wait till your sick these are not an option anymore but with planing they are there if/when you need it.

Right, because the problem is that you aren't buying enough insurance. You need to give more money to insurance companies to have a working system.

You realize one of the biggest benefits of a single payer system is that it reduces costs. Countries with single payer systems pay less for better outcomes than the system the US currently has. Why not adopt a system that costs less and covers everyone?

but would they be?
would they be more inclined to stop smoking, and other KNOWN unhealthy habits, now that they KNOW the government will "fix" them when the get sick?

I say no. they will know they have that safety net, and they will use it.
while the rest of us are paying even MORE tax dollars, because their are more people taking, and they are needing more due to bad choices.

if each person IS(currently they are not) responsible for their own healthcare, are they going to be more prone to make healthier choices, so as to avoid the costs associated with such behaviors?

Got any facts to support those assumptions? As someone who lives with a national healthcare system I can assure you that people dont decide to smoke here based on the fact they know they can see a doctor for free. I'm not any less concerned about cancer, or any other disease, because I know I'll get free care if I get it.

 

[Thefishguy77]

https://www.openthebooks.com/assets/1/7/Oversight_TheMilitarizationOfAmerica_06102016.pdf


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[Gunslinger-13]

Good example is USSR, that was doing quite well if not for cold war when it was forced to spend a lot at expense of social programs, food supply,etc. Western economies allied to protect their way of living.
Thanks to Churchill.
Find or create an enemy, then you can ask for unlimited financing to pay Military Industrial complex- true owners of this once great country.

"Good example is USSR" -WHAT?!?!?!?!

So you are positing that the USSR was doing "just fine" until big old bad old America came along and did them in????? The folks living under Soviet rule were doing okay!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!

I think you should talk to some folks that lived through shit in the USSR and do a little history research...

Socialism is not a good thing. Sure a few countries have socialism that is somehow staying together and working for them AT THE MOMENT.

NONE of those countries have the illegal immigration problems we do, none of them support 1/2 of the rest of the world like we do, none of them have complex economies and large landmasses coupled with huge populations, etc.

Socialism is just flat out absurd. If you want it, there are plenty of countries that have it. Please do not bring it here- lots of us know better than to allow such a thing get its claws into the USA.

Countless soldiers died fighting socialism and communism- and now folks in the USA freaking WANT IT!?!?!?

Crazy town!

I'll leave these quotes RE Socialism here as these folks said it better than I can:

"If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave."
-Samuel Adams

"When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs."
-Maxwell Anderson

"The notion that the church, the press, and the universities should serve the state is essentially a Communist notion. In a free society these institutions must be wholly free – which is to say that their function is to serve as checks upon the state."
-Alan Barth

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
-Frederic Bastiat

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame and danger that their acts would otherwise involve... But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it doesn't belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish that law without delay ... No legal plunder; this is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony and logic."
-Frederic Bastiat

"But to manipulate men, to propel them toward goals which you – the social reformers – see, but they may not, is to deny their human essence, to treat them as objects without wills of their own, and therefore to degrade them."
-Isaiah Berlin

"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
-William Boetcker

"Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good."
-Ayn Rand

I really don't care what folks from Socialist countries or any other country think about America, our healthcare system, or anything for that matter.

For every Socialist country that is doing a-okay (At the moment- that is), there are other Socialist countries that are falling apart! Venezuela anyone?

Do any of you really believe Sweden, Norway or Finland would be doing as well as they are if the USA wouldn't have gotten involved in WWII and defeated the Nazis? Like they would have even had a choice of what theiir governments would be if us evil Capitalists didn't step in and take care of their collective futures?

How about if the USA hadn't stopped the spread of Russian Communism?

The free world is lucky we THE USA spent the money, shed the blood and lost good men to insure the world didn't get taken over by mad men who wanted to rule you all at the tip of a gun, with their brand of Socialism!

It is disgusting to read posts by Americans who WANT socialism here in the USA. Absolutely abhorrent.

 

[CXS]

That's a topic on its own. As a retired "old guy" I'm appalled at how unprepared the majority of Americans are for both emergencies & retirement but have nice trucks, homes and toys.

New thread on this: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/225128-saving-future.html#post2463596

 

[Victor_inox]

but would they be?
would they be more inclined to stop smoking, and other KNOWN unhealthy habits, now that they KNOW the government will "fix" them when the get sick?

I say no. they will know they have that safety net, and they will use it.
while the rest of us are paying even MORE tax dollars, because their are more people taking, and they are needing more due to bad choices.

if each person IS(currently they are not) responsible for their own healthcare, are they going to be more prone to make healthier choices, so as to avoid the costs associated with such behaviors?

if we held people accountable, they would have to make better choices. or suffer the consequences. no more handouts, no more safety nets. people CAN do more, and better.
they just don't have to, because someone else is there to do it for them...

according to our daughters doctor, the average age for girls to start menstruating is 9 years old. holy shit!!

I remember when I was in school, the average was like 12-13. why is it going down?

exactly my point.

"Good example is USSR" -WHAT?!?!?!?!

So you are positing that the USSR was doing "just fine" until big old bad old America came along and did them in????? The folks living under Soviet rule were doing okay!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!

I think you should talk to some folks that lived through shit in the USSR and do a little history research...

Socialism is not a good thing. Sure a few countries have socialism that is somehow staying together and working for them AT THE MOMENT.

NONE of those countries have the illegal immigration problems we do, none of them support 1/2 of the rest of the world like we do, none of them have complex economies and large landmasses coupled with huge populations, etc.

Socialism is just flat out absurd. If you want it, there are plenty of countries that have it. Please do not bring it here- lots of us know better than to allow such a thing get its claws into the USA.

Countless soldiers died fighting socialism and communism- and now folks in the USA freaking WANT IT!?!?!?

Crazy town!

I'll leave these quotes RE Socialism here as these folks said it better than I can:

"If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave."
-Samuel Adams

"When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs."
-Maxwell Anderson

"The notion that the church, the press, and the universities should serve the state is essentially a Communist notion. In a free society these institutions must be wholly free – which is to say that their function is to serve as checks upon the state."
-Alan Barth

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
-Frederic Bastiat

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame and danger that their acts would otherwise involve... But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it doesn't belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish that law without delay ... No legal plunder; this is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony and logic."
-Frederic Bastiat

"But to manipulate men, to propel them toward goals which you – the social reformers – see, but they may not, is to deny their human essence, to treat them as objects without wills of their own, and therefore to degrade them."
-Isaiah Berlin

"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
-William Boetcker

"Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good."
-Ayn Rand

I really don't care what folks from Socialist countries or any other country think about America, our healthcare system, or anything for that matter.

For every Socialist country that is doing a-okay (At the moment- that is), there are other Socialist countries that are falling apart! Venezuela anyone?

Do any of you really believe Sweden, Norway or Finland would be doing as well as they are if the USA wouldn't have gotten involved in WWII and defeated the Nazis? Like they would have even had a choice of what theiir governments would be if us evil Capitalists didn't step in and take care of their collective futures?

How about if the USA hadn't stopped the spread of Russian Communism?

The free world is lucky we THE USA spent the money, shed the blood and lost good men to insure the world didn't get taken over by mad men who wanted to rule you all at the tip of a gun, with their brand of Socialism!

It is disgusting to read posts by Americans who WANT socialism here in the USA. Absolutely abhorrent.

You funny, I spent 30 years in USSR. I don`t want soviet model of socialism in USA but would not discard idea as worthless as many things were great.

My father fought in WWII1942-1945 and has PHD in history. I base my beliefs on his view of the world, my own research.

You should really do real research before spreading nonsense.
If you think that USA defeated the NAZI you should think again or better yet watch Oliver Stone's "Untold history of the united states". Great Documentary based on real documents Not some propaganda BS fed in public schools.
US only get involved at the end of the war to prevent USSR spreading to the rest of the Europe, no other reason. By 1944 USSR would have defeat Nazi without help. What would happens next? Soviets would build The Bomb" first and political world map would be very different. Without captured/defected German physicists not US nor Soviets would build it for another 20 years.
I`m physicist myself I'm familiar with the matter.

 

[-JD-]

"Good example is USSR" -WHAT?!?!?!?!

So you are positing that the USSR was doing "just fine" until big old bad old America came along and did them in????? The folks living under Soviet rule were doing okay!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!

I think you should talk to some folks that lived through shit in the USSR and do a little history research...

Socialism is not a good thing. Sure a few countries have socialism that is somehow staying together and working for them AT THE MOMENT.

NONE of those countries have the illegal immigration problems we do, none of them support 1/2 of the rest of the world like we do, none of them have complex economies and large landmasses coupled with huge populations, etc.

Socialism is just flat out absurd. If you want it, there are plenty of countries that have it. Please do not bring it here- lots of us know better than to allow such a thing get its claws into the USA.

Countless soldiers died fighting socialism and communism- and now folks in the USA freaking WANT IT!?!?!?

Crazy town!

I'll leave these quotes RE Socialism here as these folks said it better than I can:

"If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave."
-Samuel Adams

"When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs."
-Maxwell Anderson

"The notion that the church, the press, and the universities should serve the state is essentially a Communist notion. In a free society these institutions must be wholly free – which is to say that their function is to serve as checks upon the state."
-Alan Barth

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all."
-Frederic Bastiat

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame and danger that their acts would otherwise involve... But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it doesn't belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish that law without delay ... No legal plunder; this is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony and logic."
-Frederic Bastiat

"But to manipulate men, to propel them toward goals which you – the social reformers – see, but they may not, is to deny their human essence, to treat them as objects without wills of their own, and therefore to degrade them."
-Isaiah Berlin

"You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
-William Boetcker

"Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good."
-Ayn Rand

I really don't care what folks from Socialist countries or any other country think about America, our healthcare system, or anything for that matter.

For every Socialist country that is doing a-okay (At the moment- that is), there are other Socialist countries that are falling apart! Venezuela anyone?

Do any of you really believe Sweden, Norway or Finland would be doing as well as they are if the USA wouldn't have gotten involved in WWII and defeated the Nazis? Like they would have even had a choice of what theiir governments would be if us evil Capitalists didn't step in and take care of their collective futures?

How about if the USA hadn't stopped the spread of Russian Communism?

The free world is lucky we THE USA spent the money, shed the blood and lost good men to insure the world didn't get taken over by mad men who wanted to rule you all at the tip of a gun, with their brand of Socialism!

It is disgusting to read posts by Americans who WANT socialism here in the USA. Absolutely abhorrent.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/222220-america-week-what-hell-124.html#post2461473