Another 5th gen flipped on Black Bear Pass...

[Mclark202]

Do you do off-road recovery for a living? Have you ever been on Black Bear Pass? It's a single shelf road with high cliffs on either side. There is no way to position another car to get that type of leverage and angle to flip the car over in a safe way. But I guess you're the expert.

Okay sorry to ruffle your feathers. That other picture truly shows the incline. It was just a statement. I’m no expert which is likely why I said that in the first place.

 

[Louisiana Overland]

This entire thread honestly makes me sick to my stomach. I do a good bit of travelling with a RTT on my lifted 5th gen and yes it does make it more unweildy. I dont usually notice it as much on trails as I do on paved roads at paved road speeds, but even on trails I am constantly looking, thinking ,and choosing the line that will keep the truck planted with the least amount of lean. Anything remotely technical I usually get out and walk first to get a game plan. I do all this because I know that even though I began driving at 14 and am now 52 years old, I just dont do enough technical stuff off road to call myself experienced enough to jeapardize my rig. I had an epiphany while following a 3rd gen and an fjc down tray mountain one night. They both lifted a rear tire at many many spots on that trail. This gave my GF high anxiety and so I began being super sensitive to choosing lines that keep 4 wheels on the ground. I alao played around with a forklift one day, picking up on one tire or other to see just how much flex and lean the truck could handle before a second wheel began lifting off the ground. An independent front suspension isnt ideal for max flex, but I can promise you, the rig in these photos should have been leaning pretty hard before finally tipping over.

Id still love to hear how his insurance handles this.

 

[Red Dog Leader]

Drilling anchors at that spot on the trail was by far the best option. Even trying to get any other vehicle as an anchor would have our way too much risk in turning a very bad situation into a way worse situation.

Drilling holes and putting in anchors (temporary or permanent) has been done for a long time. Always nice on those 5+ obstacles in Moab when there are anchors in the rock to winch on. Saves damage to the natural environment keeping the greenies out of our hair trying to shut down wheeling spots too.


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[Daikon]

Found a video of the aftermath..

YouTube

 

[MAST4R]

Do you do off-road recovery for a living? Have you ever been on Black Bear Pass? It's a single shelf road with high cliffs on either side. There is no way to position another car to get that type of leverage and angle to flip the car over in a safe way. But I guess you're the expert.

I think this is pretty spot on. I've been along for a few recoveries that were off road and complex. It's a lot different when you're being paid to recover someone else's vehicle than when you're with your buddies and someone gets stuck. One time the jeep wasn't even stuck. It was just a lady who was too scared to drive it back down the trail, so she called for a recovery and the guy I was with who owns the shop just drove it back to the road and that was it. Generally there's no rush. And safety is paramount. The recovery company is now taking a lot of liability for additional damage. So solid anchor points are set and you take your time and do everything slowly and safely.

This is pretty unusual idea to go drill bolts into the rock in most places, but it's a solution that is probably common for that particular area because of the lack of any alternatives. Probably developed locally as an offshoot of the mining history there and the folks who do it most often are familiar with the technique. I really can't think of a better way you could do this safely on that road. The only other alternative I can really think of would be to take a skidder or similar vehicle up there that has enough weight that it could safely pull up the 4Runner by virtue of just being so much bigger and heavier.

It is extremely impressive to do that kind of recovery.

Back to the OP, I spotted an inexperienced driver with a Rubicon on 37s (who in fairness only started the Telluride side after seeing me go down first) through the rocky switchback and he tended to put his pax tires too far right. It is intuitive but wrong. Reminds me of Elephant Hill's squeeze where people go right to avoid hitting on the left. And that's exactly why they hit on the left: because the rock on the right lifts them and tilts them the wrong way. Same here: the rock wall on the right lifts and tilts the vehicle the wrong way.

I found the switchback fun but I hated this spot though I never lifted a wheel unlike this stock one here: Stock 4Runner on Black Bear Pass - YouTube For those who have not been there, the spot is worse than it looks though it would have been a non-event on a wider trail.

I think Black Bear is one of those trails where compromised wheel travel is a particularly bad idea.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

It is extremely impressive to do that kind of recovery.

Back to the OP, I spotted an inexperienced driver with a Rubicon on 37s (who in fairness only started the Telluride side after seeing me go down first) through the rocky switchback and he tended to put his pax tires too far right. It is intuitive but wrong. Reminds me of Elephant Hill's squeeze where people go right to avoid hitting on the left. And that's exactly why they hit on the left: because the rock on the right lifts them and tilts them the wrong way. Same here: the rock wall on the right lifts and tilts the vehicle the wrong way.

I found the switchback fun but I hated this spot though I never lifted a wheel unlike this stock one here: Stock 4Runner on Black Bear Pass - YouTube For those who have not been there, the spot is worse than it looks though it would have been a non-event on a wider trail.

I think Black Bear is one of those trails where compromised wheel travel is a particularly bad idea.

exactly. I remember when I first did that trail, I really wanted to hug right but I was like...those rocks are going to cause me to tilt into the wall. I ended up hugging left with no issues but the car behind me didn't and broke the driver side cargo area window.

 

[spartacus]

They are used to these kind of recoveries up there. Here is an fj back on the trail not quiet to the steps yet.
FJ Cruiser Rolls at Black Bear Pass - BETTER ANGLE! - YouTube