Another Speakers Amplifier Install

[jackolero]

Here's the "finished" project.

Picked up this JL 10W0v3-4 wedge gem for $60 in CL that surprisingly fit behind the 3rd row and so now I'm forced to install my old Rockford Fosgate Power 400.4 and upgrade my audio system. I'm no install expert or but I had my Fast and Furious days so I've messed with installing amps and dual bandpass in a hatchback so I think I can install this by myself. And this brings up a bunch of questions to audio gurus. I'm not an audio purist as well just a regular guy who got bit by the audio bug again. I have the 2013 SR5 standard 8 speakers system. For now I'm planning on keeping the stock head unit and installing the 4channel amp to power the JL 10" by bridging 2channels and power the 2 or 4 front door speakers/dash. I have not seen a definitive posts about speaker replacement options so feel free to answer any question or correct me if I got the wrong information.

1. Originally I was only going to install this Infinity Kappa dash speakers and call it a day but now that I'm going to utilize my 4channel amp and will have 50 or probably 100 rms watts and now planning to replace the 2 front door speakers as well. I've read that the dash acts a tweeter and front doors as midbass or a non conventional components system so in theory I could swap that kappa plus a midbass 6.5 woofer in there and I should have a non conventional components system and have 10x better than stock sound system due to the fact that I'll have 100 watts rms powering the kappas and 6.5 woofer in parallel totalling 2 ohms connection. Am I right here? Also considering getting a MB Quart Component and just use the 6.5 woofer and ditch the tweeter since I'll be installing the Kappas which will function as tweeters. Bad idea?

2. 2nd option skip the Kappas and get a decent components like this Image Dynamics CTX or JL C2 and I'll unhook the dash speakers and mount the tweeter at the top of the door panel close to AC vent. I have searched and surprised that I have not seen a flush mounted tweeter in the door panel. Is it not possible or people just don't want to cut their precious door panel? If someone has done it please chime in or pictures would be great where you have placed it or even if someone has a photo of door panel's back side, found this but it doesn't show whole panel. Also if you guys could share what components are you running so I could get more idea.

3. Whats the maximum speaker mount depth on the door?

4. I've originally considered Antman's stealthy under the seat powered sub but now I'll use it as a guide to install the 4ch amp under the seats. My other question would be how and where would be the best way to snake the speaker wire towards the back where I could hook it up to the sub in the back? Do I have to take back side sills panel or can I work through the carpet? Fortunately bought extrabanana plugs and fits right in the sub speaker ports that I think it'll make it a little easier to take the sub out if needed. So I'm planning on making it long enough to fit behind the 3rd row when in use.

5.Remote switch on the amp where do I splice for this? Considering the Party mode switch where is the best wasy to splice the hilo level converter rear passenger speakers or liftgate speakers?

I think that is it for now. Thanks in advance for any help on this!

 

[jackolero]

Started a thread here at caraudio forum.

So to update here's what's going in to the truck

Image Dynamics CTX 6.5 component. Tweeter is going into the front dash speaker location and 6.5 woofer going into front doors. Powered by JL HD600/4 amp. Received the tacotunes bundle with tweeter and front door brackets. Anyone running their tweeter on the front dash with tacotunes bracket?
I will be test fitting them once rain stops here.

Looks like the best option for me is to run new speaker wires to tweeters dash location from the crossover and use the existing speaker wires for the front door. Anyone got any other suggestions for the wiring?

Still no idea where to run the speaker wires from amp under the front passenger seat to the cargo area. Anyone got any suggestions on how and where I can snake it to the back?

Regarding party mode, looks like the best option would be to tap the SNI35 to the rear speakers so I can use the fader as a bass control knob. Rendering t4r party useless, which I figure the sound I will end up after the install is 100x better than what the party mode can offer. Any other suggestions of better way of doing it?

 

[jackolero]

Thanks for the complement, it would be my pleasure to help if I can be of any assistance. The thread that you're using as a model is an excellent one, and gives great attention to detail, adding much clarity for following along. I will, however, need a bit more detail wrt your project objective.

It would seem as though you want to use some "miscellaneous stuff", that has accumulated over time for this project and are finding it hard to bring it all together; for instance... you mentioned that you were going to "Bridge" the hu's rear channel and assign it to your "JL-Audio" 10wov3-4?

I'm not so sure that you can "Bridge" two channels together like that, but even if you could, your sub would still suffer from "power deprivation". Subs are designed to operate within a certain parameter of electrical voltage x current (watts).

A sub-woofer isn't just a "bass speaker" with a fancy logo or badge "vulcanized" on it's cone; it's more than that. It's function is to reproduce soundwaves below that of a typical (90-100hz) low/mid frequency device, which requires a considerable amount of energy to be spent during that process. To perform adequately, A typically rated, "250 watts", may be a good, "entry level", place to begin.

Please, take a look at this thread that was posted during one of my more recent "car audio" project endevors, here's a link: Thanks Gurus, for all your "Low-end" help!!

I may also have some additional info regarding a "x-over solution" that I've implemented in my own 2012 4Runner "Limited", subwoofer system, "see below":
MiniDSP :: Topic: miniDC isolator accessory mandatory? (1/2)

Hope this helps!

rigtec, Cheers

Thanks for the reply, if you don't mind i'm posting your reply here so we can have a build thread going here that may help someone in the future as I don't see may how to's regarding this.

My original objective is just to add a little bump to my t4r with a single 10" sub JL I picked up by hooking up my old RF 4ch amp to the stock HU and just "bridging" the rear channel of the amp and I'm done with. So it's safe to say that I'm an SQ kinda guy. But you know how it goes with simple projects, I figured since I'm going to rip my dash apart might as well upgrade the front speakers to utilize the front channels of the amp so I've decided to pick up an Image Dynamics CTX 6.5. And while I'm might as well install some sound deadening material on the doors.

Right now I think I've got everything I need to do the install except for a new 4 awg amp install kit becuase I picked up JL HD600/4 amp for dirt cheap that will replace the RF 400.4. I'm just trying to gather as much information I can get right now to do the install smoothly hopefully sometime this week.

Someone from another forum (car audio) has given me some great ideas regarding the wiring/install that I will be following. I just would like some more inputs from someone who is familiar with the t4r, knowing that toyota has installed a quite complicated audio system with the addition of party mode.

Plan now is I'd lay new speaker wires from the crossover to the tweeter (which I will install on the dash) and use the factory wiring to the front door speakers for the 6.5 woofer. I'll be using the rear door speaker signal for the 2nd SNI35 for the 10" sub and leaving the rear door speakers unhooked since I'm always on the party mode with the stock system anyway, leaving them on off position all the time, so I figured just keep them off and utilize the fader as a sub control. I will use a metra toyota harness so I don't have to cut the factory harness. Is there anything that you would have done differently or you think a better way of doing it? I don't mind losing party mode since I'm pretty sure when all is done this will be 100x better than what the party mode is.arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:arty:

How and where did you run the speaker wires for the sub in the back area from the amp below the front seats? I'm trying to find the best way to snake the sub speaker wires from the amp. Also I might rig a speaker terminal post where I can plug a banana plug from the sub so I can remove the sub box easily if needed. BTW I have 3rd row seats.

Man how's your hearing right now? I'm only thinking one 10 is enough for me but 4 JL 10" subs is just insane!:noidea:

 

[rigtec]

How and where did you run the speaker wires for the sub in the back area from the amp below the front seats? I'm trying to find the best way to snake the sub speaker wires from the amp. Also I might rig a speaker terminal post where I can plug a banana plug from the sub so I can remove the sub box easily if needed. BTW I have 3rd row seats.

Hi jackolaro'

First of all, I wanted to leave the "limited", as stock (just turned 7,000 orig mi.) as possible so as not to depreciate it's resale value by means of "assault by butchering"! You have a "built-in" wire-way (trough), under the front & rear doorjams; they just clip in and out. This is where I have two, 4ga power-amp line pulls from under the hood, to under the driverseat where the amps are stacked. From there, I have the speaker wire runs going under the left rear doorjam, and into the cargo area where the subs are located. The doorjams just "snap-out" and back-in.

To make things easier, you can use an electrical snake with a nylon "Fishtape" guide, to pull your amplifier power lines, and speaker wires through channel moldings or underneath the carpeting when there's not a lot of room.

Man how's your hearing right now? I'm only thinking one 10 is enough for me but 4 JL 10" subs is just insane!:noidea:

Hearing is okay lol!

Four tens and two (2) 750 watt JL amps is some serious hardware, but the "pay-off", is the ability to reproduce any program material on a "reference level", and never have to worry about running out of "headroom" or V.C. excursion, even if the music is "saturated" with 25, 30, 40, or 50hz signal; it always remains "ultra-clean" (undistorted) and musical!


Here's something else that'll make life easier, from a company called "miniDSP". All of my signal processing e.g., parametric eq, x-overs, H.P. filtering etc... is "software driven" (dsp), so I didn't need to find any extra space near the amps, or in the dash to locate a x-over or an EQ; just downloaded the firmware onto my laptop, and using a 2.0 USB port, I can control an "unlimited" amount of p-eq freq bands for unbelievable sub control. Here's a link to that equipment: Products

And here's a thread that'll help you to do a speaker upgrade "the right way"!
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/142625-2013-te-stereo-build.html

Hope this helps, good luck!

rigtec, :cheers:

 

[jackolero]

D-Day today! Started at 12p halfway there. Amp wired up with power,ground and speakers wires to crossover hiding spot. just need to deal with wiring with HU.

Bracket/adapter got online from tacotunes for 6x9 to 6.5 doesn't fit. Waiting for reply from taco tunes. Will need to make a trip to a shop tomorrow to get it fabricated.

Gain on sni35 should I set everything on max?

 

[rigtec]

"...Gain on sni35 should I set everything on max?"

Hi jack..'

Glad to see things are coming along! Here's a JL Audio tutorial: "How to set-up input (gain) sensitivity" on your amplifier.

JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Tutorial: Input Sensitivity (Gain) Setting

Just use the "next (>>) button" to advance each step, or you can download a "PDF file" and print it out. Keep up the good work! :thumb3:

Greg (rigtec)

 

[jackolero]

ok thanks.

just wired up the sni35 1 to front HU and SNI35 2 to rear.

just to verify

12 volt red from HU to remote turn on rfor amp right?

I'm using 2 toyota metra harness so do I hook up everything else on the harness besides the front and rear to SNI35 ( 12 volt memory, ground, power ant,)?

 

[rigtec]

ok thanks.

just wired up the sni35 1 to front HU and SNI35 2 to rear. just to verify 12 volt red from HU to remote turn on rfor amp right?

I'm using 2 toyota metra harness so do I hook up everything else on the harness besides the front and rear to SNI35 ( 12 volt memory, ground, power ant,)?

Your hu (sr5) is quite different from mine (LE), so I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage. However, you can use the dashboard "cigarette lighter's"(pos +) fused power supply wire, for the amp's "remote turn on" function; if needed. I understand that you're using the 2013 4Runner "Metra harness" kit for the install; good idea. But, do they connect to the hu's "speaker-out's", or "Line(pre-amp)out's" to feed the new power amp inputs?

The reason I ask this is because the new amplifier's "line inputs" only work within a predetermined voltage range (1 to 2 volt max), so if you are tapping into the hu's "speaker outputs", you will have to use a "buffer" or a "line output converter" (LOC), to properly match the amp's line input requirement. They are not expensive; $8-$12 @amazon.com. If you don't use them (where required), not only will the music sound bad, but you'll risk burning out the amp's "input stage" circuitry, so be careful :decision: lol!

rigtec

 

[wsmc831]

I believe if you read Antman's thread you will find the proper wires to tap in to on that HU. I tried using it as a guide but the LE with Nav is very different, took a while to figure out where to tap in w/o butchering everything.

Personally, I started with just replacing all the speakers and really did not like the Infiniti's in the dash, way too bright. Fixed that with a new 5 channel amp and a change in frequency range being sent to the front door speakers.

I'm sure you'll find, as I did, Toyota did a nice job making this vehicle serviceable...everything comes apart pretty cleanly.

 

[jackolero]

Rigtec- Yeah the metra harness is a great idea I got from caraudio, it allowed me to mostly wire it up easily out of the car and without butchering the factory harness. The sr5 doesn't have a pre-amp out, I basically tapped the front speakers and rear for the sub. I wired most of it back together and tapped the 12V red for remote turn on and seems to be working great for the amp. According to this link, the SR5 has a blue remote amp so I could probably used that as well.

The the amp is working now with sub, man the HD600/4 is overkill for the JL 10W0v3-4, gain is not even quarter up with bass set -5, truck is thumpin! I'll probably look for another shallow mount speaker with higher RMS rating to replace this JL. Party mode arty: is still working as I hooked the rear speakers as well. I need to get the components running to hear this system right. I'm smiling ear to ear just listening to it with the rear speakers.:jump:


wsmc831: What front speakers are you using? If components did you lay new wires from crossover to speakers? Where did you hide the crossovers? I'm planning on hiding mine on the transmission box. Any easy way of laying new front wires? Only gripe with toyota is the door panels seemed getting cheaper to make, I feel like I'm going to break it easily just moving it to another place.

Speaking of door panel, is there any trick on putting this back on? I'm having trouble just hooking up the top part.

Anyone got any link or instructions on how to remove cargo panel with 3rd row seat?

Quick question on fuse, the HD600/4 manual recommends 50 amps fuse, closest I can get is 60 amp fuse, should I keep looking for 50 amps fuse or 60 would work?

Back to wiring the tweeter for now. Taco tunes people is looking into the speaker adapters which they seemed surprised that it didn't fit.

 

[wsmc831]

I put Infiniti full range, 2 way in the stock 6x9 location. It's not audiophile quality and I may go Focal components later but it's worlds better than it used to be. The 3.5's in the dash were way too bright for me and pulled the stage too high. I did not run new wires to any speakers. The looms to the doors are plugs at the pillar so you are left with punching a hole in the rubber boot. I've done the whole rip/replace on every vehicle since 1987 and just wanted to add to the JBL/Nav system in this car.

I intercepted the signal going to the rear door speakers at the pillar (as they are full range), routed that to level reducers and split that into front/rear channels on a 5 channel amp, and fed those 4 corner feeds back to the speakers using the stock wiring at the pillars. The feed from the door speakers is low range, which I split to the sub input on the 5 channel amp, and to a powered 8 under the drivers seat. Amp fed a mid level Rockford 12 in a sealed box in back.

As far as putting the panel back on, I know what you mean. Once you get the panel off, make sure you have all the plastic pins. You can remove the strip that sits into the window channel at the top of the door, put that on the door with the window down, then press on the panel horizontally.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about putting a 60 amp fuse in there...it's really just about preventing catastrophic failure.

 

[rigtec]

Quick question on fuse, the HD600/4 manual recommends 50 amps fuse, closest I can get is 60 amp fuse, should I keep looking for 50 amps fuse or 60 would work?

An 8 to 10' 4ga (copper) power cable will carry a 100A load w/ no safety concerns. According to JL, their "HD 600/4" will not exceed more than (apprx) 80% of the 50A fuse rating (under normalized conditions e.g., constant supply of 12V or better, Hot and Grd supply lines are properly sized with good connection points, and do not exceed a distance of xyz, etc...).

A 50A fuse will not protect the amplifier, or it's components, in the event of a catastrophic electrical failure, but rather, prevent the risk of an explosion or fire in the car. So using a 60A "in-line" fuse (located as close to the battery as possible), will be sufficient. However, here's where to get 50A, "car audio", in-line fuses:
Amazon.com: Install Bay AGU50 - 50 Amp AGU Fuses (10 Pack): Car Electronics

Cheers

 

[jackolero]

Quick question anyone know which wire is + or - on Image Dynamics CTX 6.5 tweeter? Found it's manual didn't say which is which.

 

[rigtec]

It doesn't matter jack...' as long as their polarity is the same (identical). So identify their terminals (+) and (-), and wire them the same way, and you'll be fine!

 

[jackolero]

You mean as long as wire both R/L tweeter the same they should be ok?

 

[rigtec]

You mean as long as wire both R/L tweeter the same they should be ok?

Yes definitely... It doesn't matter!

 

[rigtec]

Hey jack...'

Thought you might enjoy seeing an "LE" model 4Runner w/jl (stealthbox) sub over the wheelwell in cargo area. Saw it on the JL Audio "user gallery" page.
JL Audio

Nice huh?!! :thumb3: :thumb3:

 

[jackolero]

Yeah saw that when I was looking up the hd600/4, I wish I can fab a box like that.

Anyway I'd say 90% finished. Amp hooked up with sub and layed new wires for tweeter dash and front door. All I need is the 6.5 adapter and I'm done. Well not really test drove it, sounded great even without the midbass yet but the lights on HU is out :doh:.

should be illumination wiring right? I'll sleep on it and deal with it tomorrow.

 

[rigtec]

"...but the lights on HU is out :doh:. should be illumination wiring right? I'll sleep on it and deal with it tomorrow."

Oh-oh! :wtf:

You may have a blown hu fuse. I use "eautorepair.net" repair manuals (Mitchell Manuals co.). It covers the 2010 thru 2013 sr5, Trail, and Limited 4Runners. I looked up the sr5, "Radio circuit w/built-in amplifier", which I'll assume is what you have; don't know if you have "entune w/nav". It shows a 7.5A (ACC) fuse, located in the driverside relay/fuse box. There's also a 30A (Hot at all times) radio rcvr fuse that feeds the "multi-media interface" ECU (if equipt) module as well, and is located under the hood (engine room) Rly blk assm, left side of engine compartment. There's also a separate fuse for interior/instrument cluster lighting, but I doubt that, that fuse has anything to do with this.

Just in case you'd like to use this manual, here's that link: Do it Yourself Automobile Repair Manuals - Mitchell 1 DIY This link may, or may not work because of it's "password protected" registration formatting; it "times out" after being dormant for a bit. I checked it in "Preview post" and it works, but you may need a password to login. You can P.M. me if you need assistance. Best of luck.

rigtec, chow

 

[jackolero]

Turns out my crimping skills is the suspect, one wire came loose as I shoved the HU back in. Hooked it up sgain and lights are back on.

Anyway I haven't even finish the install and already planning to change my amp for the third time in the near future so I'd like to prewire it for a 5 ch while I still have car apart. I could sell the hd600/4 and make enough money to get an xd700/5.

So 2 more speaker wires and 1 rca. Where do I tap the 3rd sni35 for the rear speakers?