Anti lock brakes.

Semi-Hex

New member
I did try to look this up but with no luck.

I have an annoying problem with what feels like my anti lock system trying to compensate while driving windy steep mountain roads. (paved) Especially downhill inside turns. At first I thought it was because my tires were hitting the painted lines and slipping but that isn't the case.
It seems to be random and I can't duplicate it all the time. I do drive this road often so I should be able to have it happen every time I go though some areas.
Stock tires, no lift, stock Trail (I know) vehicle.
Also is there a way to turn off the automatic downhill braking system? It seems to be set at 45mph and some of the downhill sections are 65 limit.

Thank you for the help.
 
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I did try to look this up but with no luck.

I have an annoying problem with what feels like my anti lock system trying to compensate while driving windy steep mountain roads. (paved) Especially downhill inside turns. At first I thought it was because my tires were hitting the painted lines and slipping but that isn't the case.
It seems to be random and I can't duplicate it all the time. I do drive this road often so I should be able to have it happen every time I go though some areas.
Stock tires, no lift, stock Trail (I know) vehicle.
Also is there a way to turn off the automatic downhill braking system? It seems to be set at 45mph and some of the downhill sections are 65 limit.

Thank you for the help.

You cannot turn off the downhill brake. It is inherent in the design. It is not "set" at any particular speed but apparently it activates at this speed for you in that condition.

Try turning off the VSC (vehicle stability control) next time you go down the mountain. It has many parameters and one of them is the braking system. It tries to keep all the wheels spinning at around the same RPM and when a wheel slips will brake other wheels to get everything at correct RPM. Here is a quick link to get you started. VSC Explained - YouTube
 
You cannot turn off the downhill brake. It is inherent in the design. It is not "set" at any particular speed but apparently it activates at this speed for you in that condition.

Try turning off the VSC (vehicle stability control) next time you go down the mountain. It has many parameters and one of them is the braking system. It tries to keep all the wheels spinning at around the same RPM and when a wheel slips will brake other wheels to get everything at correct RPM. Here is a quick link to get you started. VSC Explained - YouTube

Thanks, 1engineer. I have the same problem in one LH turn going up my canyon. The problem is that the ABS prevents turning when turning is a good thing. I'll try VSC = off.
 
Thanks, 1engineer. I have the same problem in one LH turn going up my canyon. The problem is that the ABS prevents turning when turning is a good thing. I'll try VSC = off.

Can't beat the laws of physics!

- If the ABS is pulsing you probably don't have enough traction to turn in the first place. With VSC off, you will probably just slide through the turn.
 
Can't beat the laws of physics!

- If the ABS is pulsing you probably don't have enough traction to turn in the first place. With VSC off, you will probably just slide through the turn.

We'll see, but I doubt it will slide. Dry pavement. No grit. I think it has more to do with inside vs outside wheel rotation speed, combined with an ABS sensor that's "off" a little.
 
Oh, sorry. I was thinking gravel+sharp turn type of thing.

I get it now! Keep us in the loop...
 
Thanks, 1engineer. I have the same problem in one LH turn going up my canyon. The problem is that the ABS prevents turning when turning is a good thing. I'll try VSC = off.

Remember that VSC is usually a good thing so if you do turn it off remember to turn it back on again right after you get past the trouble spot.
 
Sounds to me like something might not be right with his VSC system. I drive my 4R hard (corners, speed, etc) and I NEVER have had my VSC system kick in on dry pavement. Now, on sand, gravel, snow, and ice, sure many times playing around it engages and keeps things 'straight'. VSC has a lot more do due with than just wheel spin! It takes into account everything from yaw rate to steering position and on and on. It is there to prevent your 4R from spinning around, wants to keep you straight and in control. Wonder if there is a bad sensor or something needs to be re-calibrated.
 
Sounds to me like something might not be right with his VSC system. I drive my 4R hard (corners, speed, etc) and I NEVER have had my VSC system kick in on dry pavement. Now, on sand, gravel, snow, and ice, sure many times playing around it engages and keeps things 'straight'. VSC has a lot more do due with than just wheel spin! It takes into account everything from yaw rate to steering position and on and on. It is there to prevent your 4R from spinning around, wants to keep you straight and in control. Wonder if there is a bad sensor or something needs to be re-calibrated.

Not doubting your driving but it's extremely simple to activate VSCon dry pavement. All you have to do is go over a speed bump slow and accelerate while going over it. Another way is go up an incline slow while cornering at full steering lock.

I have to disagree with you on "VSC having more to do than just wheel spin" though. VSC exists to keep all wheels turning at a correct rpm. While there are many inputs into the VSC system there are only a few things that VSC will do to counter those inputs. 1) Is to use the braking system to slow down the offending wheel(s) spin by pulsing the brakes and 2) Is to re**** throttle accordingly. Both of those actions directly relate to wheel spin.It cannot "countersteer" or take any action beyond effecting wheel RPM.
 
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Well I turned off VSC, which you have to do at a stand still and wait three seconds. It was much better but I still got caught twice. I'm only going about 10 or so MPH over the posted limit and those are set for grannies to drive. On the way back I left it on and it got caught several more times.
I think it's a little sensitive. I am used to this stretch of road so I tend to go faster. Now I get this happening. I do like the concept of VSC now that I know more about it but I would like to adjust it.
I just opened the link for the calibration and will try it soon, once I understand what they want.
Thank you for the input.
 
Not doubting your driving but it's extremely simple to activate VSCon dry pavement. All you have to do is go over a speed bump slow and accelerate while going over it. Another way is go up an incline slow while cornering at full steering lock.

It sounds like you are talking more so about TRAC than VSC. If you do as you say over the speed bump your rear wheels will 'pop up' tricking the 4R into thinking it is loosing traction, and it will throttle back (TRAC) with a flash of that on the dash. A straight line will NOT activate the VSC system. When the VSC system is activated you will get flashing icons on the dash (forget which one), BUT you will also get an audio beep from the 4R letting you know it just activated. I cruise over the speed bumps at the mall and grocery store and it has never happened to me.

I have to disagree with you on "VSC having more to do than just wheel spin" though. VSC exists to keep all wheels turning at a correct rpm. While there are many inputs into the VSC system there are only a few things that VSC will do to counter those inputs. 1) Is to use the braking system to slow down the offending wheel(s) spin by pulsing the brakes and 2)

Yes...and...No - TRAC exists to keep the wheel spinning at the same RPM's VSC exists to keep the 4R from spinning out and flipping over. Say for example you are going around a corner and hit some black ice with the 4R and the rear end starts to slide out, the 4R's sensors (These include a yaw rate sensor, a G-sensor and a steering angle sensor.) detect it and the 4R's essentially takes control give and will keep the vehicle from spinning out and possibly flipping over..... please read below for the full details.....(like you said, obviously it is not turning the front wheels, but it knows which direction they are pointed and takes that into consideration when making the throttle/braking corrections)

How Does It Work?

Sensors can detect that the vehicle is skidding sideways, and when this happens, Toyota’s Vehicle Stability Control system can apply braking force independently to any of the four wheels while automatically controlling engine output. Together, these careful adjustments help to prevent lateral skidding.

The VSC system electronically monitors speed and direction, and compares the vehicle's direction of travel with the driver's steering, acceleration and braking inputs. VSC can help compensate for loss of traction which can cause skids. It utilizes some components shared with the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) and an electronically controlled engine throttle as well as a dedicated computer and sensors providing information to the VSC system. These include a yaw rate sensor, a G-sensor and a steering angle sensor. When VSC is active, a warning beep tone and instrument panel warning light indicate that the system is functioning. In many cases, VSC reacts well before the driver is aware of a loss of traction. As with other safety technologies, such as anti-lock brakes, it is important to drive safely, since Vehicle Stability Control cannot defy the laws of physics, nor can it provide more traction than exists in a given condition.

While VSC has revolutionized vehicle steering and traction control, it does have limits. The system cannot provide more traction than exists between the vehicle and the road surface, and it cannot prevent lateral skidding if the driver makes extreme steering actions.

Vehicle Stability Control is a revolutionary technology that has helped reduce the number of accidents dramatically by assisting drivers in controlling lateral skidding. In fact, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has found that passenger cars equipped with VSC are involved in 35% fewer car accidents than those without the technology. For SUVs, the difference is even more dramatic – those with VSC are involved in 67% fewer accidents.

Toyota became one of the pioneers in developing vehicle stability control systems in the late 1980s by examining how tanks are maneuvered. Through a revolutionary technology designed to control the right and left brakes separately, Toyota took a new approach to brake design that reduces the chances of lateral skidding.

Toyota featured its first version of the VSC system on the 1995 Crown Majesta.

VSC
 
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Maybe Semi-Hex's truck need sensor calibrations. On stock tires I had VSC beeping just once on a slippery hill in winter. But when I tested it in 2wd in show, VSC and TRAC worked fine, beeping and blinking like crazy but keep my truck in one line. Without snow I could never activate VSC, maybe I turn not fast enough though.
 
I'm going to try the calibration when I get back from my trip. It's going to take awhile so I would rather do it once correctly than having to do it a couple of time because I was in a hurry.
Thank ou for all of your input.
 
@semi-hex: You need callibration if VSA and/or other lights come on at random times. You need to get your sensors checked if again, random times you have this abs feel. If it does it at the same place every time you need to change driving habits or turn VSA off.

@westwind77: Very good above post! My whole point though (and apparently I did not make myself clear) is everything boils down to wheel spin.
 
@westwind77: Very good above post! My whole point though (and apparently I did not make myself clear) is everything boils down to wheel spin.

I hate to disagree with you here but I think I have to. This might be an extreme instance, but it might help get the point I was trying to make across. Going back to my ice situation, even if all the 4 wheel were spinning at the exact same rate (very unlikely, but possible), as soon as the rear end would start to slide out (even before the driver could realize) the VSC system would engage. Wheel spin is NOT required for the VSC system to engage, it is more concerned with the lateral movement of the 4R. You and I both know that usually when things start to slide there is a lose of friction which will cause wheel spin, but, for that 1 in a million situation where it does not happen the system will still kick in. Wheel spin is TRAC, the spin of the 4R around the center axis of the vehicle is VSC.

Usually I would not disagree with you, I know you know your stuff, but I think here we might just have to agree to disagree :cheers:
 
Well I turned off VSC, which you have to do at a stand still and wait three seconds. It was much better but I still got caught twice. I'm only going about 10 or so MPH over the posted limit and those are set for grannies to drive. On the way back I left it on and it got caught several more times.
I think it's a little sensitive. I am used to this stretch of road so I tend to go faster. Now I get this happening. I do like the concept of VSC now that I know more about it but I would like to adjust it.
I just opened the link for the calibration and will try it soon, once I understand what they want.
Thank you for the input.

How did you turn off VSC? If you did by pressing the "TRAC Off" button and quickly releasing it, then you only temporary turned off traction control - it turns itself back on once you reach a certain speed. To turn off VSC (and TRAC in the same time), you need to press and hold the button for more than 3 seconds; this way VSC and TRAC will stay off until you turn it back on.
 

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