Anything goes thread

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-JD- said:
:laugh:

Think about this one for awhile. I'm sure you'll get it eventually. Go back and read the article that this all is based off of.

You're confusing two different things. LGBTQ people and organizations formed to advocate on behalf of that group of people.
There are plenty of LGBTQ people who are not a part of formal organizations. There are plenty of black people who are not a part of BLM.

Think about the order of events. The bias against these groups came first, the organizations (I choose to call them that as opposed to groups to help better differentiate the two different things) formed as a result.

This is basically the entire point of the study posted earlier, which is why I find it so funny that you fail to see the distinction. Low cognitive people tend to be prejudice against 'groups' people don't choose to be apart of (LGBTQ, race). Higher cognitive people tend to be prejudice against 'groups' people DO choose to be apart of (a pro LGBTQ organization, BLM).

See the difference now? I sure hope so.....
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Your last paragraph should tell you all you need to know. You say it says something about me for not being prejudice against, but in fact having friends in LGBTQ but not liking BLM.

So are you saying i'm smart?


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-JD- said:
Well your tendency to want to lump people into groups says something...


but ultimately I dont think the point was to say liberals are smart and conservatives are stupid. I think the bigger point was that people who tend to be prejudice against people for things they dont control (race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, etc) are of lower cognitive ability. While those who are prejudice against people for things they DO control tend to be of higher cognitive ability.

The fact that those things tend to, in a general way, align with specific party values may or may not be related.
Click to expand...



And this quote is just because I don't think you will take the time to retread what you said about me to start with.


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-JD- said:
:laugh:

Think about this one for awhile. I'm sure you'll get it eventually. Go back and read the article that this all is based off of.

You're confusing two different things. LGBTQ people and organizations formed to advocate on behalf of that group of people.
There are plenty of LGBTQ people who are not a part of formal organizations. There are plenty of black people who are not a part of BLM.

Think about the order of events. The bias against these groups came first, the organizations (I choose to call them that as opposed to groups to help better differentiate the two different things) formed as a result.

This is basically the entire point of the study posted earlier, which is why I find it so funny that you fail to see the distinction. Low cognitive people tend to be prejudice against 'groups' people don't choose to be apart of (LGBTQ, race). Higher cognitive people tend to be prejudice against 'groups' people DO choose to be apart of (a pro LGBTQ organization, BLM).

See the difference now? I sure hope so.....
Click to expand...

Dude, there are somethings that just can't be "fixed", I commend you for really trying.
 
ndcent said:
I've never understood why people want to argue that being gay is a choice.

What greater point do they hope to prove? And why does it matter so much to them?
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I have no doc in the fight of choice versus born that way. But let's be factual.

There is no genetic Alele found in our genome that can be linked to a precursor to homosexuality. People have spent tons of time and money trying to find it and so far nothing.

And this idea of "it's a choice" might sound rridiculous when it's not understood in the proper context.

It is NOT as if anyone just simpl makes this single choice to have a certain sexual preference. It's a series of choices and interactions and observations and emotions- a culmination of life experiences, sometimes at a young age, sometimes at an older age- of one having a sexual preference.

If it were simply people are either born homo or hetero- why then do folks change back and forth throughout their lives?

There are a certain percentage of folks who are homo, that then later in life are hetero and vice versa. And also folks who go back and forth many times in their lives.

I personally don't care what sexual preference you are- just keep it respectful in public and down try and force me to share your opinions.

I will be quite honest- I find homosexuality to be "icky". Do I hate people of that sexual preference- hell no. Do I wish any harm or separate treatment- hell no.

But it's not something that I myself will ever "like".

My sister is gay, I love her and support her just like the rest of my family. I don't treat her any different and the friends I have that represent a letter of the LGBTQISA community I do not treat any different.

But I will be honest of my opinions and my thoughts and I will not treat how I feel any differently either.

It's hard to have these conversations because political correctness has messed everyone's heads up.

If I don't say I love this and that and I'm totally 100% for it- people instantly put me in a box and call me names and say It's HATE HATE HATE.

It's simply not so. I can both accept you for who you are and not like certain aspects of who you are without being _phobic or hateful.

But sadly most people are just extremists these days and want to out everyone I a nice little box with a nice little label and point fingers.

It's a complicated world we live in; and most folks make it more complicated and harder to communicate with sac other than it needs to be by obfuscating everything and always having to delude themselves into believing that either you agree with me and your part of the smart/in/cool/progressive/advanced/elite or you don't and your an idiot/hateful/outdated/racist/phobic.

Life is not that black and white. There is a lot of grey. Sadly the Internet is the most blatantly black and white pick your side and fight venue there is. See every discussion ever about politics, religion, sex, etc.
 
Gunslinger-13 said:
I have no doc in the fight of choice versus born that way. But let's be factual.

There is no genetic Alele found in our genome that can be linked to a precursor to homosexuality. People have spent tons of time and money trying to find it and so far nothing.

And this idea of "it's a choice" might sound rridiculous when it's not understood in the proper context.

It is NOT as if anyone just simpl makes this single choice to have a certain sexual preference. It's a series of choices and interactions and observations and emotions- a culmination of life experiences, sometimes at a young age, sometimes at an older age- of one having a sexual preference.

If it were simply people are either born homo or hetero- why then do folks change back and forth throughout their lives?

There are a certain percentage of folks who are homo, that then later in life are hetero and vice versa. And also folks who go back and forth many times in their lives.

I personally don't care what sexual preference you are- just keep it respectful in public and down try and force me to share your opinions.

I will be quite honest- I find homosexuality to be "icky". Do I hate people of that sexual preference- hell no. Do I wish any harm or separate treatment- hell no.

But it's not something that I myself will ever "like".

My sister is gay, I love her and support her just like the rest of my family. I don't treat her any different and the friends I have that represent a letter of the LGBTQISA community I do not treat any different.

But I will be honest of my opinions and my thoughts and I will not treat how I feel any differently either.

It's hard to have these conversations because political correctness has messed everyone's heads up.

If I don't say I love this and that and I'm totally 100% for it- people instantly put me in a box and call me names and say It's HATE HATE HATE.

It's simply not so. I can both accept you for who you are and not like certain aspects of who you are without being _phobic or hateful.

But sadly most people are just extremists these days and want to out everyone I a nice little box with a nice little label and point fingers.

It's a complicated world we live in; and most folks make it more complicated and harder to communicate with sac other than it needs to be by obfuscating everything and always having to delude themselves into believing that either you agree with me and your part of the smart/in/cool/progressive/advanced/elite or you don't and your an idiot/hateful/outdated/racist/phobic.

Life is not that black and white. There is a lot of grey. Sadly the Internet is the most blatantly black and white pick your side and fight venue there is. See every discussion ever about politics, religion, sex, etc.
Click to expand...

What greater point do you have to prove and why does it matter to you?

Say it's proven one way or the other tomorrow, that it is or isn't a choice. Why does it matter?
 
ndcent said:
What greater point do you have to prove and why does it matter to you?

Say it's proven one way or the other tomorrow, that it is or isn't a choice. Why does it matter?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter one bit and I have no point to prove other than what research shows- let's at least be honest and factual about things and get over it.

Ever see brain candy- the kids in the hall movie; there is a musical number about the guy being gay and at the end of the number everyone says "who cares".

That's where I'm at. I don't care, be what you want. But that won't stop me from knowing the facts about the science and being honest about it.

To each his own, leave me alone.
 
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It'd be interesting to do a poll and see the number of members who feel 'at risk' of their sexuality suddenly changing at some point in their lives.

:laugh:
 
So if then you admit it doesn't matter, and I agree, why do people always want to argue that point? It's really strange.
 
ndcent said:
So if then you admit it doesn't matter, and I agree, why do people always want to argue that point? It's really strange.
Click to expand...

No argument at all, just stating what we know currently based on the research/science. Why does that have to come off as argumentative to you?

Maybe I am misunderstanding yur post. I find it strange also.

I'd actually think most folks dont care, but like most topics the folks on both sides screaming the loudest get the attention and skew the way we view things as a society. The media doesn't help either.
 
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I appreciate honesty & I truly do not like to ask a personal question as I am old school and feel the interweb should be somewhat anonymous, for lack of a better term. However, you posted about your sister and my only question on this topic, does she think it's a choice or that it's a basic instinct (brain wiring)?

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ThorInc said:
I appreciate honesty & I truly do not like to ask a personal question as I am old school and feel the interweb should be somewhat anonymous, for lack of a better term. However, you posted about your sister and my only question on this topic, does she think it's a choice or that it's a basic instinct (brain wiring)?

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She believes she was born that way, but she also isn't totally sure about it either. She has gone back and forth from men to women and decided she just likes women better. I think she is done going back and forth and has found a woman she will spend the rest of her life with. I officiated their wedding. They are good for one another.

It's a hard conversation to have, and she is a very emotional person. It must be a hard thing to think about for her and I am empathetic.

I've had the conversation with her wife also, and she isn't sure either. She is very logical and intelligent, loves science, so I was able to speak with her to greater lengths and she said that it is likely a choice, but feels she was born that way so it's hard to just accept one of the other.

I've met people who believe it is how they were born and others who believe it was a culmination of experiences and choices leading to the preference.

The science behind it tends to support the latter currently. That may change with more research. Time will tell.
 
Interesting that you feel the research leans towards it being a choice. Most of the research I've read leans towards genetics playing a big factor.

I can certainly say that the gay people I've discussed it with feel they were born that way.
 
-JD- said:
Interesting that you feel the research leans towards it being a choice. Most of the research I've read leans towards genetics playing a big factor.

I can certainly say that the gay people I've discussed it with feel they were born that way.
Click to expand...



I have seen the researcher interviews saying they are looking for the markers. They may be there. It's just to my knowledge we haven't found them yet. I believe that 90% of the LGBTQ community is probably LGBTQ from the beginning. There may be some experimenting but most say they always felt like something was missing. I have one friend that is gay. He has been with his guy for over 7 years. He was previously with a woman for 2 and a guy before that. He doesn't consider himself bi as if he is attacked to one sex he is not attracted to the other. He says spare toy he likes having options (with a smile on his face).


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I'd say the majority of research looks at genetics vs environmental. To say that if the research leans towards environmental then that means one has a choice is a dangerous correlation.

I can only relate thing truly to my own personal experiences. I know that the first time I can remember being attracted to someone was back in either the 4th or 5th grade (my memory is sh*t at distinguishing those years). I know that I couldn't tell you the first reason why I was attracted to her, but I just was. Same as today. I could point to someone I find attractive and tell you all the reasons I find them so be it hair, face, body, smell etc etc, but nothing to truly be able to say why that is so. Now, could something in the environment of my childhood have shaped that or was it genetics? No idea. But all I know is that it is what it is.
 
-JD- said:
Interesting that you feel the research leans towards it being a choice. Most of the research I've read leans towards genetics playing a big factor.

I can certainly say that the gay people I've discussed it with feel they were born that way.
Click to expand...

I believe it is a bit of both working together. Like most things really.

I wish both sides of the divisive argument would cool their jets and relax a bit. And I'm not speaking to you or anyone in this thread directly when saying this.

It is a very polarizing topic and I think people need to meet more in the middle rather than the extremes. That's what I think about most things, mostly.
 

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Taken from the same source as above.

This chart is a proportional representation of various nations’ deaths from gun violence. It includes France, Mexico, Finland, and other developed nations (more on this later). America’s firearms-related death rate is 10.64 per 100,000 (statistics via GunPolicy.org).
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Taken from same source as above.

The U.S. homicide rate is pretty high when compared to other “developed” countries, based on data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. This chart shows a homicide rate of 5 per 100,000 (this figure has dropped in more recent years to approximately 3.6 per 100,000).
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  • Homicide-Rates-for-Developed-Countries-OECD-2011-or-latest-year.png
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