Anything goes thread

[nevada]

Again, find another forum for political or religious discussions. Last warning.
-mod-

by what authority do you get to say that?


where in the rules does it say we cant talk politics?

where in the rules does it say the video I posted above isn't allowed?


you are a mod, not god. you are here to uphold the rules in place. NOT run things as YOU see fit.

 

[1engineer]

by what authority do you get to say that?


where in the rules does it say we cant talk politics?

where in the rules does it say the video I posted above isn't allowed?


you are a mod, not god. you are here to uphold the rules in place. NOT run things as YOU see fit.

You are exactly right. My role as a mod here, as I see it, is:
Keep out the spammers.
Keep the topics of discussion relevant to the sub forum and move threads accordingly.
Keep out the unsavory people looking to take people's money.
Keep the discussions civil.

I'm sure you have read the few rules we have. Here they are again http://www.toyota-4runner.org/new-members/205103-toyota-4runner-org-forum-rules-must-read.html.

Those rules don't say you can't talk politics.
They do say
"3. No Trolling or Posts For the Purpose of Instigating Flame Wars
This includes, but is not limited to, posts designed to instigate political and religious flame wars (e.g., starting a poll asking whether or not you think the President is a re****). Trolling includes making deliberate provocative posts with the aim of inciting an angry response or disrupting discussion. Determinations on the issue of whether a post was made for the purpose of trolling or of instigating a flame war shall be in the sole and absolute discretion of the admins / mods."

Every single political post, unless everyone has identical views, will instigate a flame war eventually. You know this. I know this. The "If you had to vote for one..." thread was a classic example. I started it out as a simple poll and it morphed into a mess.

For a period of time I "thought" the people in this sub forum could carry on a civil discussion on politics with no name calling or hate. I was really wrong. Other mods agree. I didn't just make the decision arbitrarily. I even gave you guys multiple chances to continue posting political content with messages and warning infractions to no avail.

Now, this is the third time I have explained this. NO POLITICS or RELIGIOUS posts. This includes funny stuff like your post. If you don't like it, go somewhere else to post about politics. Do me a favor - go ask another mod how they feel about political threads and how they interpret the rules.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

You are exactly right. My role as a mod here, as I see it, is:
Keep out the spammers.
Keep the topics of discussion relevant to the sub forum and move threads accordingly.
Keep out the unsavory people looking to take people's money.
Keep the discussions civil.

I'm sure you have read the few rules we have. Here they are again http://www.toyota-4runner.org/new-members/205103-toyota-4runner-org-forum-rules-must-read.html.

Those rules don't say you can't talk politics.
They do say
"3. No Trolling or Posts For the Purpose of Instigating Flame Wars
This includes, but is not limited to, posts designed to instigate political and religious flame wars (e.g., starting a poll asking whether or not you think the President is a re****). Trolling includes making deliberate provocative posts with the aim of inciting an angry response or disrupting discussion. Determinations on the issue of whether a post was made for the purpose of trolling or of instigating a flame war shall be in the sole and absolute discretion of the admins / mods."

Every single political post, unless everyone has identical views, will instigate a flame war eventually. You know this. I know this. The "If you had to vote for one..." thread was a classic example. I started it out as a simple poll and it morphed into a mess.

For a period of time I "thought" the people in this sub forum could carry on a civil discussion on politics with no name calling or hate. I was really wrong. Other mods agree. I didn't just make the decision arbitrarily. I even gave you guys multiple chances to continue posting political content with messages and warning infractions to no avail.

Now, this is the third time I have explained this. NO POLITICS or RELIGIOUS posts. This includes funny stuff like your post. If you don't like it, go somewhere else to post about politics. Do me a favor - go ask another mod how they feel about political threads and how they interpret the rules.

I understand this, and have seen it many times on other forums.

Here's the problem...

Politics is just a part of human nature. It will come out in every facet of our lives some way or another. Especially near elections, especially highly contested ones.

Not everyone was "Name calling" or being rude. Some were. In my opinion- you should have given infractions and or banned them per the rules.

Because those of us that WERE civil and DID follow the rules are being punished for those of us who were NOT civil and DIDN'T follow the rules. That's bogus.

Keep things civil, no name calling or poop slinging and keep the signal to noise ratio positive. Have a set limit of infractions/warnings and ban without hesitation when a member can't stay in the confines of the rules.

That's easier said than done and requires quite a bit of "modding" I am aware. IF it gets to cumbersome to deal with, put a temporary hold on certain topics- kind of forcing the people who can't self regulate to take a break. Then bring it back, wash rinse, repeat.

This forum, while public domain- is privately owned and the owners have the right to do what they wish with it- banning political or religious discussion being part of that.

All of that being said, I find it ridiculous when a forum "bans" certain discussion. It is quite frankly un-American and runs counter to the nature of our Constitution.

I think a good rule to implement would be a minimum post count to be able to post in OT at all.

That keeps one time drive by political/religious a-holes away and makes it to where only members who contribute to the forum overall can partake in these discussions.

Not a solution for people being morons or adults acting like children by any means, but it does help a bit.

Anyways, I will abide by your decree of "No politics and no religion", but- damn that bullshit censorship to hell sir!

 

[ThorInc]

It has been my experience over the years including being mod & admin in the past, that to equate an internet forum with a democracy is not a model for a web forum in general.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Gunslinger-13]

It has been my experience over the years including being mod & admin in the past, that to equate an internet forum with a democracy is not a model for a web forum in general.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

I completely agree, and my time as a mod was tiresome to say the least dealing with the rabble and childish internet tough guys and pricks.

I did everything I could to keep it as close to what I believed was right (Freedom of speech- etc) but at the same time regulate per the rules and make certain the owners of the domain were happy and had control in the way they wished to have it.

Like I said I will abide by the rules and completely understand why politics and religion discussion was banned, but I do not have to like that decree and I will let folks know.

I wish people were able to debate more than argue, but the internet is a strange place that can be hard to navigate and we have odd power in hiding behind a computer screen with anonymity. Some people abuse that power more than others.

The election is coming up soon. Either way it goes, the country is moving in the wrong direction- will continue to do so and people will forget and go on about there lives watching "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and "Americas got Talent", twiddling with their IPhones and posting selfies on bookface until the next round of bullshit gets them artificially riled up for a few moments until they go back to sleep again and continue to get ground down by the machine...

We should all take a nice hike or walk, have a good beer and remember we are lucky to be vertical, above room temperature and alive during one of the most exciting and crazy times in history.

Slainte!

 

[1engineer]

I understand this, and have seen it many times on other forums.

Here's the problem...

Politics is just a part of human nature. It will come out in every facet of our lives some way or another. Especially near elections, especially highly contested ones.

Not everyone was "Name calling" or being rude. Some were. In my opinion- you should have given infractions and or banned them per the rules.

Because those of us that WERE civil and DID follow the rules are being punished for those of us who were NOT civil and DIDN'T follow the rules. That's bogus.

Keep things civil, no name calling or poop slinging and keep the signal to noise ratio positive. Have a set limit of infractions/warnings and ban without hesitation when a member can't stay in the confines of the rules.

That's easier said than done and requires quite a bit of "modding" I am aware. IF it gets to cumbersome to deal with, put a temporary hold on certain topics- kind of forcing the people who can't self regulate to take a break. Then bring it back, wash rinse, repeat.

This forum, while public domain- is privately owned and the owners have the right to do what they wish with it- banning political or religious discussion being part of that.

All of that being said, I find it ridiculous when a forum "bans" certain discussion. It is quite frankly un-American and runs counter to the nature of our Constitution.

I think a good rule to implement would be a minimum post count to be able to post in OT at all.

That keeps one time drive by political/religious a-holes away and makes it to where only members who contribute to the forum overall can partake in these discussions.

Not a solution for people being morons or adults acting like children by any means, but it does help a bit.

Anyways, I will abide by your decree of "No politics and no religion", but- damn that bullshit censorship to hell sir!

Good post. If you followed along, you know that I did caution all people in public posts. I also issued several warning infractions. I also issued infractions that resulted in temporary bans. I also banned a few permanently. Unfortunately, that did nothing to change the tenor of the posts. It's a judgement call always. Seldom black or white, just gray.

True, not everyone was name calling but in our society, as I have explained before, a few bad actors change the rules for everyone. Question: Why are there speed limits? Answer: Because some people cannot be trusted to go at a safe speed. It's the same thing with every rule or law. We would need no rules here if people could be trusted to not post porn or argue or name call or try to scam people. Unfortunately human nature requires rules to prevent anarchy.

A minimum post count rule is a good idea... unless you are the guy who only has a few posts and then it's discrimination to them. I get enough of those questions from the guys who want to start a thread with only two posts.

Politics are discussed all over the internet. There are good places to go that would welcome some of you to their discussions.

Lats point: No matter what I do I will be wrong for some people. For example, several people pm'd me and applauded the decision to keep politics and religion out of this forum. Some of you want it, some of you don't. No matter what the decision it will be wrong to some.

 

[Victor_inox]

I noticed that some people love to read between the lines even if there nothing written there instead of confirming with poster on his/her meaning if unclear.
Without freedom of expression OT is pointless, good bye everybody.

 

[1engineer]

It has been my experience over the years including being mod & admin in the past, that to equate an internet forum with a democracy is not a model for a web forum in general.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Exactly.

 

[Victor_inox]

Good post. If you followed along, you know that I did caution all people in public posts. I also issued several warning infractions. I also issued infractions that resulted in temporary bans. I also banned a few permanently. Unfortunately, that did nothing to change the tenor of the posts. It's a judgement call always. Seldom black or white, just gray.

True, not everyone was name calling but in our society, as I have explained before, a few bad actors change the rules for everyone. Question: Why are there speed limits? Answer: Because some people cannot be trusted to go at a safe speed. It's the same thing with every rule or law. We would need no rules here if people could be trusted to not post porn or argue or name call or try to scam people. Unfortunately human nature requires rules to prevent anarchy.

A minimum post count rule is a good idea... unless you are the guy who only has a few posts and then it's discrimination to them. I get enough of those questions from the guys who want to start a thread with only two posts.

Politics are discussed all over the internet. There are good places to go that would welcome some of you to their discussions.

Lats point: No matter what I do I will be wrong for some people. For example, several people pm'd me and applauded the decision to keep politics and religion out of this forum. Some of you want it, some of you don't. No matter what the decision it will be wrong to some.

Easiest way to people not get upset is stay away from topics they despise.
why is it so hard instead of running to mod and complain?

 

[Hepar]

True, not everyone was name calling but in our society, as I have explained before, a few bad actors change the rules for everyone. Question: Why are there speed limits? Answer: Because some people cannot be trusted to go at a safe speed. It's the same thing with every rule or law. We would need no rules here if people could be trusted to not post porn or argue or name call or try to scam people. Unfortunately human nature requires rules to prevent anarchy.

Exactamundo. Everyone wants little to no rules, but as a whole, none of us can handle it. Which is why we get all the BS that we do.

I think there is a way to effectively moderate it, but as many have said, it would require so much more time and attention. And again, given the salary...

 

[Yukon4Runner]

We should all take a nice hike or walk, have a good beer and remember we are lucky to be vertical, above room temperature and alive during one of the most exciting and crazy times in history.

Slainte!

Well said...I like to think there are two ways you can be looking at the grass; I prefer the view from above.

Don't sweat the small stuff because soon enough you'll have no worries to worry about.

tempus fugit memento mori


.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Good post. If you followed along, you know that I did caution all people in public posts. I also issued several warning infractions. I also issued infractions that resulted in temporary bans. I also banned a few permanently. Unfortunately, that did nothing to change the tenor of the posts. It's a judgement call always. Seldom black or white, just gray.



True, not everyone was name calling but in our society, as I have explained before, a few bad actors change the rules for everyone. Question: Why are there speed limits? Answer: Because some people cannot be trusted to go at a safe speed. It's the same thing with every rule or law. We would need no rules here if people could be trusted to not post porn or argue or name call or try to scam people. Unfortunately human nature requires rules to prevent anarchy.



A minimum post count rule is a good idea... unless you are the guy who only has a few posts and then it's discrimination to them. I get enough of those questions from the guys who want to start a thread with only two posts.



Politics are discussed all over the internet. There are good places to go that would welcome some of you to their discussions.



Lats point: No matter what I do I will be wrong for some people. For example, several people pm'd me and applauded the decision to keep politics and religion out of this forum. Some of you want it, some of you don't. No matter what the decision it will be wrong to some.

You also told us to keep it civil. And then when you closed the post you admitted that we were keeping a level of civility although thinly veiled. That seems like it was you interpretation of how much civility is needed not just keep it civil. You did issue warning and infractions and we seemed to abide by them. So why did you feel the need to shut it down? Just more work than you wanted to put if to keep up with the thread? It was a very busy thread. Didn't feel like giving anymore infractions? Felt the need to create a safe space?

We were following you guidelines for the most part. If someone was directly and consistently violating them then why not remove that person from the conversation? That seems the logical way to do it. Since it was your thread you did have the right to close it. But why did you do it as a mod vs this is my thread and it's closed. Seems like a more legit way to do it.

It's funny on at least one occasion you pointed out that people not participating in the conversation at all were offended by it. Well shouldn't you have advised those people not to look at what could offend them? Creating more and more safe spaces does nothing productive to society and the Internet. All it does is create more thin skinned people.

All someone today has to say is "That offended me." Well so what? As if that makes you somehow more important than other people. All it is in reality is someone whining about something they probably shouldn't have stuck their nose in to in the first place. We need to stop enabling whiners and create thicker skinned people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nevada]

You are exactly right. My role as a mod here, as I see it, is:
Keep out the spammers.
Keep the topics of discussion relevant to the sub forum and move threads accordingly.
Keep out the unsavory people looking to take people's money.
Keep the discussions civil.

I'm sure you have read the few rules we have. Here they are again http://www.toyota-4runner.org/new-members/205103-toyota-4runner-org-forum-rules-must-read.html.

Those rules don't say you can't talk politics.
They do say
"3. No Trolling or Posts For the Purpose of Instigating Flame Wars
This includes, but is not limited to, posts designed to instigate political and religious flame wars (e.g., starting a poll asking whether or not you think the President is a re****). Trolling includes making deliberate provocative posts with the aim of inciting an angry response or disrupting discussion. Determinations on the issue of whether a post was made for the purpose of trolling or of instigating a flame war shall be in the sole and absolute discretion of the admins / mods."

Every single political post, unless everyone has identical views, will instigate a flame war eventually. You know this. I know this. The "If you had to vote for one..." thread was a classic example. I started it out as a simple poll and it morphed into a mess.

For a period of time I "thought" the people in this sub forum could carry on a civil discussion on politics with no name calling or hate. I was really wrong. Other mods agree. I didn't just make the decision arbitrarily. I even gave you guys multiple chances to continue posting political content with messages and warning infractions to no avail.

Now, this is the third time I have explained this. NO POLITICS or RELIGIOUS posts. This includes funny stuff like your post. If you don't like it, go somewhere else to post about politics. Do me a favor - go ask another mod how they feel about political threads and how they interpret the rules.

and until such time as the bolded occurs, we ARE within the forum rules.

you simply CANNOT punish someone for something they HAVE NOT DONE YET.

 

[Yukon4Runner]

You consider the requirement that politics and religion be discussed on an Internet forum other than this one a punishment?

Man, you'd really hate living in Saudi Arabia.

and until such time as the bolded occurs, we ARE within the forum rules.

you simply CANNOT punish someone for something they HAVE NOT DONE YET.

 

[1engineer]

and until such time as the bolded occurs, we ARE within the forum rules.

you simply CANNOT punish someone for something they HAVE NOT DONE YET.

"Determinations on the issue of whether a post was made for the purpose of trolling or of instigating a flame war shall be in the sole and absolute discretion of the admins / mods."

 

[-JD-]

Good post. If you followed along, you know that I did caution all people in public posts. I also issued several warning infractions. I also issued infractions that resulted in temporary bans. I also banned a few permanently. Unfortunately, that did nothing to change the tenor of the posts. It's a judgement call always. Seldom black or white, just gray.

True, not everyone was name calling but in our society, as I have explained before, a few bad actors change the rules for everyone. Question: Why are there speed limits? Answer: Because some people cannot be trusted to go at a safe speed. It's the same thing with every rule or law. We would need no rules here if people could be trusted to not post porn or argue or name call or try to scam people. Unfortunately human nature requires rules to prevent anarchy.

A minimum post count rule is a good idea... unless you are the guy who only has a few posts and then it's discrimination to them. I get enough of those questions from the guys who want to start a thread with only two posts.

Politics are discussed all over the internet. There are good places to go that would welcome some of you to their discussions.

Lats point: No matter what I do I will be wrong for some people. For example, several people pm'd me and applauded the decision to keep politics and religion out of this forum. Some of you want it, some of you don't. No matter what the decision it will be wrong to some.

Just a coincidence then that your personal proclimation of being out of politics was so closely followed by your "consultation" with the other mods and conclusion that all political discussion be censored?

 

[1engineer]

Just a coincidence then that your personal proclimation of being out of politics was so closely followed by your "consultation" with the other mods and conclusion that all political discussion be censored?

Actually, it wasn't a "consultation" it was another mod commenting on the infractions I had given due to political talk.

There is no conspiracy. There is no drama. There is no nothing. No more political or religious posts, even in off topic. That's it.

 

[Thefishguy77]

I understand this, and have seen it many times on other forums.

Here's the problem...

Politics is just a part of human nature. It will come out in every facet of our lives some way or another. Especially near elections, especially highly contested ones.

Not everyone was "Name calling" or being rude. Some were. In my opinion- you should have given infractions and or banned them per the rules.

Because those of us that WERE civil and DID follow the rules are being punished for those of us who were NOT civil and DIDN'T follow the rules. That's bogus.

Keep things civil, no name calling or poop slinging and keep the signal to noise ratio positive. Have a set limit of infractions/warnings and ban without hesitation when a member can't stay in the confines of the rules.

That's easier said than done and requires quite a bit of "modding" I am aware. IF it gets to cumbersome to deal with, put a temporary hold on certain topics- kind of forcing the people who can't self regulate to take a break. Then bring it back, wash rinse, repeat.

This forum, while public domain- is privately owned and the owners have the right to do what they wish with it- banning political or religious discussion being part of that.

All of that being said, I find it ridiculous when a forum "bans" certain discussion. It is quite frankly un-American and runs counter to the nature of our Constitution.

I think a good rule to implement would be a minimum post count to be able to post in OT at all.

That keeps one time drive by political/religious a-holes away and makes it to where only members who contribute to the forum overall can partake in these discussions.

Not a solution for people being morons or adults acting like children by any means, but it does help a bit.

Anyways, I will abide by your decree of "No politics and no religion", but- damn that bullshit censorship to hell sir!

I am on 2 different forums that require you to have a minimum post count (20) and then request permission to view off topic/reality check/political forums. Basically you ask for permission to view them and promise to not get B. Hurt when someone/thing offends you. Seems much more legit way to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThorInc]

Give it a rest guys, sometimes things need to simmer on the back burner. Why don't we all agree not to complain anymore for as long as we can hold out!

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Yukon4Runner]

There had to be a second shooter behind the grassy knoll!

Just a coincidence then that your personal proclimation of being out of politics was so closely followed by your "consultation" with the other mods and conclusion that all political discussion be censored?