Are 35s really the answer for off-road driving?

[blksubykid]

Ah good call, I mentioned being on stock gearing but I guess it was a bit buried. The gearing obviously affects power and the crawl ratio which would be both solved with gearing to 4.56 or even 4.88. However, I know changing the gearing will most likely result in a negative impact on fuel economy. Which is a factor to consider of course.

Caster is set to 4.1 driver and 4.0 passenger, that is the max you can get with Icon UCAs. My rims are 17x9 with a -25 offset which doesnt make things easier. However, even with a 0 offset wheel I can't see a world where you're not hitting your fender flares at full compression.

13.5 mpg combined with 456s lol

 

[baldrik78]

Yup its definitely a work in progress but I guess that is the fun part right?

Right! Now if I can just get the wife to stop freaking out every time she hears a little rub :lmao:

 

[Captain Spalding]

I’ve been on group trail runs. The come-as-you are type where everyone is welcome. Those adventures follow a pattern that is very good at revealing the hierarchy of off road features.

• The group sets off from base camp.
• The vehicles with street tires are the first ones to get left behind. The vehicles with proper AT tires continue.
• The next line of demarcation is ground clearance. (We can include fording depth too.) Trucks with bigger tires and/or some lift may proceed. Otherwise it’s time to break out the folding chairs and the coolers.
• Next on the list is 4WD. Yes — it’s a ways up on the list. I’ve been able to get pretty far with two wheel drive.
• Low range follows 4WD. This is where all the Haldex cars, even the lifted ones, drop off of the group.
• Penultimately - diff locks. Most of us don’t need them often, but when you need ‘em, you really need ‘em. For those that have them it will be an uncrowded camp site that night, because they have gone where others could not.

Then, breathing the rarified air of the elite, is the super-modified crowd. Super-modified means modifications so extreme that they necessitate other modifications. Tires so big that regearing is a must. Armor so heavy that the brakes need upgrading. The factory bodywork is the virgin stone from which the artist will chisel out his masterpiece.

Ladies and gentlemen, a 4Runner can be made to breathe the rarified air, but it takes more effort to get it there. More than some of its competitors. I say with some tremulation that it might not be the right tool for the job.

 

[srsrogerissrs]

I’ve been on group trail runs. The come-as-you are type where everyone is welcome. Those adventures follow a pattern that is very good at revealing the hierarchy of off road features.

• The group sets off from base camp.
• The vehicles with street tires are the first ones to get left behind. The vehicles with proper AT tires continue.
• The next line of demarcation is ground clearance. (We can include fording depth too.) Trucks with bigger tires and/or some lift may proceed. Otherwise it’s time to break out the folding chairs and the coolers.
• Next on the list is 4WD. Yes — it’s a ways up on the list. I’ve been able to get pretty far with two wheel drive.
• Low range follows 4WD. This is where all the Haldex cars, even the lifted ones, drop off of the group.
• Penultimately - diff locks. Most of us don’t need them often, but when you need ‘em, you really need ‘em. For those that have them it will be an uncrowded camp site that night, because they have gone where others could not.

Then, breathing the rarified air of the elite, is the super-modified crowd. Super-modified means modifications so extreme that they necessitate other modifications. Tires so big that regearing is a must. Armor so heavy that the brakes need upgrading. The factory bodywork is the virgin stone from which the artist will chisel out his masterpiece.

Ladies and gentlemen, a 4Runner can be made to breathe the rarified air, but it takes more effort to get it there. More than some of its competitors. I say with some tremulation that it might not be the right tool for the job.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

:rofl:

 

[bigdaddy2021]

I’ve been on group trail runs. The come-as-you are type where everyone is welcome. Those adventures follow a pattern that is very good at revealing the hierarchy of off road features.

• The group sets off from base camp.
• The vehicles with street tires are the first ones to get left behind. The vehicles with proper AT tires continue.
• The next line of demarcation is ground clearance. (We can include fording depth too.) Trucks with bigger tires and/or some lift may proceed. Otherwise it’s time to break out the folding chairs and the coolers.
• Next on the list is 4WD. Yes — it’s a ways up on the list. I’ve been able to get pretty far with two wheel drive.
• Low range follows 4WD. This is where all the Haldex cars, even the lifted ones, drop off of the group.
• Penultimately - diff locks. Most of us don’t need them often, but when you need ‘em, you really need ‘em. For those that have them it will be an uncrowded camp site that night, because they have gone where others could not.

Then, breathing the rarified air of the elite, is the super-modified crowd. Super-modified means modifications so extreme that they necessitate other modifications. Tires so big that regearing is a must. Armor so heavy that the brakes need upgrading. The factory bodywork is the virgin stone from which the artist will chisel out his masterpiece.

Ladies and gentlemen, a 4Runner can be made to breathe the rarified air, but it takes more effort to get it there. More than some of its competitors. I say with some tremulation that it might not be the right tool for the job.

We bought a TRD Offroad which covers
4wd
4Low
Rear locker
Traction control

We installed
Lift
tires
armor
snorkel
diff breathers

within about 2 months of owning our rig. Then drove 780 miles to Moab, wheeled for a week on 4-5/10 rated trails and then drove back home with nothing more than a few armor scratches/dents. We then did a snow run, a desert run, a beach dune run and have some AZ and Big Bear trail riding in our future.

We'll probably re-gear and add a front locker. I don't look at that as in anyway un-achievable or compromising what is a great all-around vehicle. My wife literally drove my daughters and her friends in the 4runner on saturday down to the HS homecoming dance, because it's so roomy, comfy and easy to drive. This is lifted on 33's with major armor, winch, roof rack, full overland kit in back, etc.I had no idea we were breathing "rarified air".

All kidding aside, you do have to pay to play. What we've build is NOT cheap, but it's a buy once, cry once proposition and I sold my Willys jeep project to fund our stage 1 mods.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

Great thread, btw, and look forward to your earnest testing efforts.

I'd say that so far 33's-35's are the bee's knee's. I think we know this because our post 2010 FJCruiser brethren have already forged a path. As far as I can tell they have the same or similar drivetrain as us with an 8" front clamshell and an 8.2" rear diff. Many of them rock 35's without much anecdotal breakage reports on the rear axle, with the occasional CV pop in the front with spirited driving on an open diff or heavy use of a front locker on tougher terrain. (it's the earlier FJ's and GX470's that have the 8" rearend that is prone to breakage, necessitating a D60 or diamond axle swap to get some reliability on bigger tires)

I'd say that small 34's-35's like BFG's are a good stopping point for us, and what we'll probably do is rock our 33's for a year or so, add some 4.56's and a front locker and go have fun on some tougher so-cal trails and report back. I honestly love the idea of a reliable, "working-within-it's-limits" rig that has a respectable crawl ratio, solid armor and 33's-35's tires. Rather have that than a rig on 37's-40's that I fear using the throttle on when I need some momentum.

 

[Xtremluck]

I’ve been on group trail runs. The come-as-you are type where everyone is welcome. Those adventures follow a pattern that is very good at revealing the hierarchy of off road features.

• The group sets off from base camp.
• The vehicles with street tires are the first ones to get left behind. The vehicles with proper AT tires continue.
• The next line of demarcation is ground clearance. (We can include fording depth too.) Trucks with bigger tires and/or some lift may proceed. Otherwise it’s time to break out the folding chairs and the coolers.
• Next on the list is 4WD. Yes — it’s a ways up on the list. I’ve been able to get pretty far with two wheel drive.
• Low range follows 4WD. This is where all the Haldex cars, even the lifted ones, drop off of the group.
• Penultimately - diff locks. Most of us don’t need them often, but when you need ‘em, you really need ‘em. For those that have them it will be an uncrowded camp site that night, because they have gone where others could not.

Then, breathing the rarified air of the elite, is the super-modified crowd. Super-modified means modifications so extreme that they necessitate other modifications. Tires so big that regearing is a must. Armor so heavy that the brakes need upgrading. The factory bodywork is the virgin stone from which the artist will chisel out his masterpiece.

Ladies and gentlemen, a 4Runner can be made to breathe the rarified air, but it takes more effort to get it there. More than some of its competitors. I say with some tremulation that it might not be the right tool for the job.

I disagree with your assertion but love how you articulated this Well done.

 

[Xtremluck]

too true.. I used to do a lot of track days. People would always wonder why i continued to do so when crashing was not unexpected. I always told them that "if you are not crashing, you are not trying hard enough"

i get it...always pushing you or your vehicle to the edge.

I’m a track rat myself too but my damage tolerance on my car is waaayyyyyyyyyyy lower than my 4Runner. At least outside tires and brakes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xtremluck]

We bought a TRD Offroad which covers
4wd
4Low
Rear locker
Traction control

We installed
Lift
tires
armor
snorkel
diff breathers

within about 2 months of owning our rig. Then drove 780 miles to Moab, wheeled for a week on 4-5/10 rated trails and then drove back home with nothing more than a few armor scratches/dents. We then did a snow run, a desert run, a beach dune run and have some AZ and Big Bear trail riding in our future.

We'll probably re-gear and add a front locker. I don't look at that as in anyway un-achievable or compromising what is a great all-around vehicle. My wife literally drove my daughters and her friends in the 4runner on saturday down to the HS homecoming dance, because it's so roomy, comfy and easy to drive. This is lifted on 33's with major armor, winch, roof rack, full overland kit in back, etc.I had no idea we were breathing "rarified air".

All kidding aside, you do have to pay to play. What we've build is NOT cheap, but it's a buy once, cry once proposition and I sold my Willys jeep project to fund our stage 1 mods.

Yup for sure. Its all about taking your truck out figuring out what works and then iterating. It took my almost 7 years to build my setup to where it is today. Each upgrade had a purpose but I will admit this recent one was a bit of YOLO. Given I was aiming to tackle some tough bucket list trails before being sidelined from 4x4ing with the arrival of a kiddo in Dec. :help:

 

[Captain Spalding]

Given I was aiming to tackle some tough bucket list trails before being sidelined from 4x4ing with the arrival of a kiddo in Dec. :help:

Congratulations! I remember that feeling of bringing the the baby home from the hospital and thinking “Okay. Now what?” But that passes quickly. Enjoy the early years. They go by quick.

 

[honda250xtitan]

I'll be interested to see how you sort it all out. You may need some longer bump stops.
What altitude do you wheel at?

limit up travel????? no no no :ban: MORE HAMMER

 

[comtn4x4]

limit up travel????? no no no :ban: MORE HAMMER

Fender cutting it is then!

 

[Captain Spalding]

I disagree with your assertion but love how you articulated this Well done.

I knew it would be a controversial statement when I posted it. Thanks for the kind words!

… I had no idea we were breathing "rarified air".

You are!

 

[Xtremluck]

Fender cutting it is then!

This is going to be my Saturday project

 

[rochmpr]

This is going to be my Saturday project

Taking about 1" out of the fender and flare is about perfect for 315's, after all the inner fender massaging. Somewhere in by build, I have some info on it.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[mrblah]

33 wasn’t enough and 34 seem to work for me, and yes I run extended bump stops in the front…lol

 

[Jeremy556]

Guess it depends on what your version of off-roading is. 35s are minimum requirements for a lot of trails, but also overkill for 99% of what most people do.

I just 'downsized' to 35" KO2s (34.5) from 35" MTRs (closer to 35", when new), and while the KO2s are real nice on road (feel like passenger car tires), they leave a whole lot to be desired off road. I'd pick a smaller size MTR - 305 or 285 over the 35" KO2 when in rocks or anything challenging, hands down.

 

[mrblah]

Guess it depends on what your version of off-roading is. 35s are minimum requirements for a lot of trails, but also overkill for 99% of what most people do.

I just 'downsized' to 35" KO2s (34.5) from 35" MTRs (closer to 35", when new), and while the KO2s are real nice on road (feel like passenger car tires), they leave a whole lot to be desired off road. I'd pick a smaller size MTR - 305 or 285 over the 35" KO2 when in rocks or anything challenging, hands down.

exactly, everyone's needs are different.

The rest of my response isn't towards Jeremy555.

My philosophy was simple, when i was goofing off in the trails in mammoth/bodi hills, i was getting turtled alot on 33's, so i figured it was time to upgrade to 34's when it was time to replace the 33's. I currently don't have the need to run 35's or have the experience to run trails that require it. So basically, ask yourself what kind of trails do you typically run. Do you really need 35's?

Another thing to consider is who you run with. If your crew only run's 33's and only run easier trails, then whats the point of having a over-capable vehicle that compromises reliability (drivetrain and steering components). While my friends don't mind, I don't want to be that guy that breaks down on the trails because dealing with nagging spouses and kids, can really suck more than the actual breakdown. Fyi, my friends are important to me, they are the ones that got me into this game, and if I am going to wheel the rubicon one day, i want them to be there with me. So if they ain't going, there is a good chance, I ain't going either. This is just me, and I can't change me.

also, not everyone wants to cut fenders and hammer firewalls. True 34's was pretty easy for me to fit, with just extended bumps (along with the necessary mods for 33s), and i can keep my lift modest (2 to 2 and 1/2 inches).

Last time i was on gold mountain in Mammoth, I witnessed a idiot in a 100k jeep slam into a tree, destroy a fender, and bust a shock..... So for those that don't know, its a rock garden/jeep trail that can be done with 33's and armor. Point is, having a over capable vehicle doesn't make up for experience, and I bet that guy thought he was King kong, until he wasn't. I don't wanna be that guy..ROFL. I rather learn what my vehicle currently is capable of, upgrade as I gain more experience, and just enjoy my vehicle and where it may take me. My current vehicle build goal was to cake walk gold mountain and play in the desert, because I knew I wasn't going to try anything harder in the near future.

Just my fiddy cents.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

I think there would have been far less modifications with a 285/75-17 or 255/85/17 on TRD Pro or Trail wheels due to the offset.

I think a 33 is the best overall size for a multi purpose 4Runner that is a daily driver too, as in my case.

Thanks to the OP on the thorough feedback on running 35’s. Puts a lot into perspective for many of us about the expense, modifications required plus wear and tear on everything to consider.