Audio Upgrade?

[Miguelon]

I am on the fence. I am going to replace all the stock speakers with new JL speakers along with a Sub and Amp. However I am told different things from various installers in town. Some say replacing the speakers without a new head unit or at least a digital processor is a complete waste of money. I will not notice a improvement and I also risk the stock radio causing problems with the amp/sub.

So then I feel like maybe I should replace the stock radio as well, but do not like the idea of messing with issues regarding the dash kit not matching and possibly losing features on my steering wheel / back up camera etc.

Ideally, if I could feel somewhat at ease about just replacing the speakers with upgrades and add an amp / sub then that is what I want. However, if I don't use a digital tuner or a new head unit is this futile?

I have a 2017 TRD Pro - Cement.

Help!

My Unlimited came stock with theJBL setup, including a flush mounted sub on rear passenger side. FWIW...I was at FJ Summit and was convinced by a vendor ( forget the name) to sit in their proprietary system that was promised to "blow me away". My boys and I agreed that the expensive system they were selling wasn't as good as the stock Limited JBL system.

 

[GAsr5]

Update - got the JL-C2650 component set installed up front this weekend. No amp yet, but nice. Actually surprised how good the stock speakers sound considering the quality of the components. The JL tweeter weighed almost as much as the whole 6x9 door assembly.

Much cleaner sound, bass sounds in control and not "muddy" and the highs are much crisper. Fabbed a mounting bracket for the door out of 1/2" mdf, and 1/4" AC plywood for the tweeter. Added about 3.5 sf of deadening to each door too.

Only downside is with the tweets so far from the woofers in the doors, when listening to the stereo with the front doors open it sounds like total trash. This should be rare though, and why I'm using C2s in the rears and hatch so I can get good sound outside the truck in "party mode"

Also, if you forget to plug in one of the woofers, it really sounds bad.

How does the new sound deadening feel? Tired of my doors sounding like an empty soda can when I open/close. When are you installing an amp/sub?
Do you think the front doors will sound better open once you install an amp? Recommend the JL speakers?

 

[GAsr5]

A few things...
- please amp the front speakers, it will make a huge difference. The rears can just be rear fill run off the factory head unit, you will barely notice them.

- I would go with a quality sealed 10" sub. you will have a bigger selection and it might actually cost less. Plus coming from a 12w7 you will want more.

- You don't need a LOC or a DSP. As long as you choose an amp that has high level inputs you don't need the LOC. The DSP is a variable because they range greatly in price and some are a simple user friendly setup, while others need to be calibrated by a professional. A DSP would definitly make any system sound better, but it comes at a price.

- make sure to budget for sound deadening and an amp/sub install kit.

- if JL is only $120 more I would go with that. That sounds like a really good deal because JL is expensive.

Definately going to amp the front speakers. Was probably going to do all door speakers regardless as I was going to get a 4 channel amp. Or at least that was the plan. JL is actually going to be a couple hundred or so more. May still end up with the Rockford - depends on what the cash flow is looking like at the time. I know both will be great.

I see the high level outputs on the rockford amps but not on the JL. Am I missing something?

Lastly, for the DSP, would you reccomend? Is this going to be a night and day difference? I saw this was one mentioned on another thread and seems not too expensive
https://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-6-Channel-Output-Converter-Restoration/dp/B00ATHBO86/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1502297055&sr=1-1&keywords=audiocontrol+channel+line

 

[djhuff7]

How does the new sound deadening feel? Tired of my doors sounding like an empty soda can when I open/close. When are you installing an amp/sub?
Do you think the front doors will sound better open once you install an amp? Recommend the JL speakers?

It's the soundstage that is waaaay off with the doors open, the tweets are inside on the dash, firing at the windshield, but the woofers are then out of the car on their own. I have debated moving the tweets to the door, higher up and adding the 3.5" coax back to the dash, but that will be later down the line.

Amp and sub will be a while, currently the 4R is not the daily driver so the priority isn't there, mostly trips with the fam and the 2 yr old isn't quite ready to appreciate the extra oomph that an amp and subs will bring. I'm doing the speakers because the factory stuff is just so "booming" at low levels. Sounds like the bass is turned waaay up on the HU, but it's not and just sounds muddy.

The sound deadening made a huge difference in the sound and feel of the doors.

To your other post, the JLs do have high level inputs, you need to put RCA ends on the speaker wires, and there is a switch to turn the inputs from low to high level.

 

[GAsr5]

It's the soundstage that is waaaay off with the doors open, the tweets are inside on the dash, firing at the windshield, but the woofers are then out of the car on their own. I have debated moving the tweets to the door, higher up and adding the 3.5" coax back to the dash, but that will be later down the line.

Amp and sub will be a while, currently the 4R is not the daily driver so the priority isn't there, mostly trips with the fam and the 2 yr old isn't quite ready to appreciate the extra oomph that an amp and subs will bring. I'm doing the speakers because the factory stuff is just so "booming" at low levels. Sounds like the bass is turned waaay up on the HU, but it's not and just sounds muddy.

The sound deadening made a huge difference in the sound and feel of the doors.

To your other post, the JLs do have high level inputs, you need to put RCA ends on the speaker wires, and there is a switch to turn the inputs from low to high level.

I thought the tweeters were already in the front doors? What is down there now, only 6x9 coaxials? For those installing 6.5 comps, is there custom mounting needed and is there a place for the 1.5" tweeters?

 

[bigbwb]

My revised upgrade plan:

New equipment:

New Dash speakers - JBL GX302 3.5" mid/tweeter https://www.crutchfield.com/S-UMabJHR9Ymn/p_109GX302/JBL-GX302.html

New Sub - Rockford Fosgate P3SD4-8 8" DVC Sub https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P3SD48/Rockford-Fosgate-P3SD4-8.html?tp=111

New Amp for Sub - JBL GTX500 500w x 1 @2ohms RMS amp https://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTX500/JBL-GTX500.html?search=jbl_gtx500&skipvs=T

Some Amazon noico 80 mil sound deadening to wrap around the sub enclosure and poly fill to stuff in the sub enclosure to get it down to the recommended volume of .25 cu ft.

All the rest of the stuff remains stock. From my research this solution provides minimal modifications and everything will fit where the OEM stuff went (minus the amp which can go under passenger seat).

 

[GAsr5]

My revised upgrade plan:

New equipment:

New Dash speakers - JBL GX302 3.5" mid/tweeter https://www.crutchfield.com/S-UMabJHR9Ymn/p_109GX302/JBL-GX302.html

New Sub - Rockford Fosgate P3SD4-8 8" DVC Sub https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P3SD48/Rockford-Fosgate-P3SD4-8.html?tp=111

New Amp for Sub - JBL GTX500 500w x 1 @2ohms RMS amp https://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTX500/JBL-GTX500.html?search=jbl_gtx500&skipvs=T

Some Amazon noico 80 mil sound deadening to wrap around the sub enclosure and poly fill to stuff in the sub enclosure to get it down to the recommended volume of .25 cu ft.

All the rest of the stuff remains stock. From my research this solution provides minimal modifications and everything will fit where the OEM stuff went (minus the amp which can go under passenger seat).

Check the fat mat on Amazon. I think its a bit cheaper per sq ft and has better ratings. Depending on the amount you need. Only comes in 25/50 and larger increments. I think the noico was 30 but I wanted a bit more to do all 4 doors and the hatch fully while they are in there. Why are you only replacing the dash speakers? Where are you putting the sub? I am checking out the p2 8". Not sure the shallow mounts will give me what I am looking for.

 

[bigbwb]

Check the fat mat on Amazon. I think its a bit cheaper per sq ft and has better ratings. Depending on the amount you need. Only comes in 25/50 and larger increments. I think the noico was 30 but I wanted a bit more to do all 4 doors and the hatch fully while they are in there. Why are you only replacing the dash speakers? Where are you putting the sub? I am checking out the p2 8". Not sure the shallow mounts will give me what I am looking for.

I will look into the Fatmat, I only needed 10sq ft (just for sub area). I am only replacing the dash speakers becuase based on my research and many other 4R owners, these have the most dramatic impact. The lower door speakers only produce lows. check this thread out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...vable-difference-kappa-3-5-dash-speakers.html

The 8" sub was also used by many owners with the Limited's JBL setup. It fits perfectly with minimal mods and should prove to be a solid step above the paper oem driver especially running off the 500w aftermarket amp i am getting.

 

[GAsr5]

I will look into the Fatmat, I only needed 10sq ft (just for sub area). I am only replacing the dash speakers becuase based on my research and many other 4R owners, these have the most dramatic impact. The lower door speakers only produce lows. check this thread out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...vable-difference-kappa-3-5-dash-speakers.html

The 8" sub was also used by many owners with the Limited's JBL setup. It fits perfectly with minimal mods and should prove to be a solid step above the paper oem driver especially running off the 500w aftermarket amp i am getting.

Interesting, I heard these were the opposite - but to each their own. Planning on doing all the doors plus the hatch. Was going to do the dash but I dont think itll be necessary

 

[bigbwb]

Interesting, I heard these were the opposite - but to each their own. Planning on doing all the doors plus the hatch. Was going to do the dash but I dont think itll be necessary

All depends on what you are after I guess.

 

[GAsr5]

UPDATE: JL full system will run $1375 .. Rockford at $775...

 

[djhuff7]

I thought the tweeters were already in the front doors? What is down there now, only 6x9 coaxials? For those installing 6.5 comps, is there custom mounting needed and is there a place for the 1.5" tweeters?

Factory is full range in dash (3.5) and door (6x9), I put components, with tweet in dash location and woofer in door.

Yes you need custom mounting in all locations, even if you are replacing with same size, the mounting holes don't line up, Tacotunes sells a kit, but I fabbed mine out of mdf pretty easily.

 

[djhuff7]

UPDATE: JL full system will run $1375 .. Rockford at $775...

Pricing that different, you are getting quite different level of quality, not apples to apples comparison on components.

Now, is the Rockford $775 system good enough to meet your needs? Who knows, but they are not comparable systems unless you are getting last year's closeouts.

You really do get what you pay for.

 

[GAsr5]

Factory is full range in dash (3.5) and door (6x9), I put components, with tweet in dash location and woofer in door.

Yes you need custom mounting in all locations, even if you are replacing with same size, the mounting holes don't line up, Tacotunes sells a kit, but I fabbed mine out of mdf pretty easily.

What's the difference between putting in 6x9s in the front doors vs a 6.5 comp? Speakers are somewhat foreign to me. I was under the impression that there were tweeters in the front doors.

 

[djhuff7]

What's the difference between putting in 6x9s in the front doors vs a 6.5 comp? Speakers are somewhat foreign to me. I was under the impression that there were tweeters in the front doors.

Lots of good explanations on the tacotunes site, but the crux is the door is a full range speaker, and is near the floor. Going with a 6x9 coax puts tweeters at your feet, which is less than ideal. Components allow you to put the tweeter higher up, and also gives the woofer the whole cone to work with.

Really the decision is between 6.5 components (woofer in door, tweet in dash) or to put a coax in the door (6.5 or 6x9) and a 3.5 coax in the dash. I went with the former because you end up with better quality components, it's enough, and you'll save $50 or so over 2 sets of coax.

I went back and forth on this up to and including during the install process. This is the most important as the front soundstage is the most important.

 

[keyser_soze]

Definately going to amp the front speakers. Was probably going to do all door speakers regardless as I was going to get a 4 channel amp. Or at least that was the plan. JL is actually going to be a couple hundred or so more. May still end up with the Rockford - depends on what the cash flow is looking like at the time. I know both will be great.

I see the high level outputs on the rockford amps but not on the JL. Am I missing something?

Lastly, for the DSP, would you reccomend? Is this going to be a night and day difference? I saw this was one mentioned on another thread and seems not too expensive
https://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-6-Channel-Output-Converter-Restoration/dp/B00ATHBO86/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1502297055&sr=1-1&keywords=audiocontrol+channel+line

Personally I would rather bi-amp the components and run the rear/hatch speakers off the head unit. (what I did in my 4runner)

You need These to use the high level inputs on the JL amps.

And the LC7 is a line out converter.

I thought the tweeters were already in the front doors? What is down there now, only 6x9 coaxials? For those installing 6.5 comps, is there custom mounting needed and is there a place for the 1.5" tweeters?

The doors just have 6x9 coaxials, there is a 3" tweeter in the dash. Most people with components mount the tweeters in the dash.

Interesting, I heard these were the opposite - but to each their own. Planning on doing all the doors plus the hatch. Was going to do the dash but I dont think itll be necessary

I think the dash speakers are the most important to replace. They play the highest frequencies and it will be the most noticeable

What's the difference between putting in 6x9s in the front doors vs a 6.5 comp? Speakers are somewhat foreign to me. I was under the impression that there were tweeters in the front doors.

DJHUFF7 answered this well. To add on to component vs a coax, components are typically higher quality and they come with corssovers so each speaker only plays its designed frequency range which all leads to better sound quality.

 

[keyser_soze]

Speakers are somewhat foreign to me.

Are you going to be installing this yourself? If so have you done this before or are you comfortable doing it? Do you have the tools?

Honestly the install is easy (youtube has everything for the 5th gen) and you can save alot of money doing it yourself... but if you mess it up you can cause alot of headache and end up spending more in the long run.

I say you should start off small and keep it simple. Basic upgrades will probably satisfy your needs anyways, no need to spend a ton of time and money for a daily driver...

My advice for a budget system:

Pioneer 5 channel amp This will fit under the seat, has high level inputs, it doesn't get too hot, 5 channel so you can bi-amp/bridge the fronts or amp the rears in the future...

Infinity Refrence 6x9 components most people like infinity's, decent crossovers, the 6x9s will put out good mid bass and be easy to install.

amp install kit You could spend the money on a 0 gauge kit if you want but its overkill for this amp.

Rockford P2 this is a basic sub. The amp is rated to 600w rms for the sub so you could step up to something like the Rockford P3 which would be much nicer but still within a budget.

Hatchback sub box
speaker connector adapters
stereo harness adapter
Reverse Stereo harness adapter
6x9 adapters
Tweeter adapters
fatmat all you need to do is the front doors
Speaker wire for the sub

This comes out to exactly $740 (before tax). It will be plenty loud and it will sound good. The OEM+ system is $1700, im sure the sound quality is much better (it has a DSP) but it comes at a price, and even then they don't really provide many specifics (no way that system is going to be that loud with only 360w rms)

 

[djhuff7]

This comes out to exactly $740 (before tax). It will be plenty loud and it will sound good. The OEM+ system is $1700, im sure the sound quality is much better (it has a DSP) but it comes at a price, and even then they don't really provide many specifics (no way that system is going to be that loud with only 360w rms)

Spot on advice, except comparing wattage outputs. For example, put that Pioneer amp next to the JL amp GAsr5 is looking at. Exactly the same wattage output, but the JL will blow the doors off of the Pioneer. I've always been leery of amps that don't publish damping factor numbers, as that will give you a true understanding of what the amp can do and how well it'll control the speakers. I remember the old Orion 4x25wHCCA amp from the 90s that would blow away several amps that were 4x100w... but yea, it was also $1200 (and stable at 0.5ohm).

But you'll pay for it, and I get what you are suggesting for a budget system. Just don't get hung up on watts.

 

[keyser_soze]

Spot on advice, except comparing wattage outputs. For example, put that Pioneer amp next to the JL amp GAsr5 is looking at. Exactly the same wattage output, but the JL will blow the doors off of the Pioneer. I've always been leery of amps that don't publish damping factor numbers, as that will give you a true understanding of what the amp can do and how well it'll control the speakers. I remember the old Orion 4x25wHCCA amp from the 90s that would blow away several amps that were 4x100w... but yea, it was also $1200 (and stable at 0.5ohm).

But you'll pay for it, and I get what you are suggesting for a budget system. Just don't get hung up on watts.

I agree with you on wattage. I have no idea what JL amp he was looking at.

I was referring to the OEM+ system (the plug and play system from another thread that everyone is talking about). They are very vague and don't have many details about their system. For example they list 360w rms for their DSP/Amp, if that is running a sub and 8 speakers I don't expect much volume out of it. Im sure it sounds great, but for $1700 you could have a quality system with real power.

But that sub does look nice for the non JBL guys who needs the storage space, or the 3rd row people.

 

[wakevictim]

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Found crazy good deals on 6.5's if anyone is interested:

Focal 6.5" Performance 2-Way Component Woofer - PS165V1

Focal 6.5" 2-Way Component Kit - 165 AS

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