Bad vibes after lift install - Solved? Solved!

[thezentree]

The vibrations have worsened significantly over the last two or three days (250ish miles) to the point that they're about as bad as they were before I swapped the lift. I've also started to get a pretty bad shimmy in the steering wheel over the last 40miles or so at highway speeds that comes and goes. So once again, this 4Runner that I've dumped like $5k into over the past few months is a driveway ornament.

I'm convinced it's in the front end somewhere, but every now and then it evens out to where I only feel it in the floorboard very faintly.

I'm going to order ECGS's front diff bushing and install tool as well as new seals for the front diff, but could this be bad wheel bearings? I've got heavy-ass 33s and wheel spacers on it now so there's a much higher moment working on those bearings, but it's not howling/growling like the GM unit bearings I've replaced in the past, and there was no indication that they were going bad before the lift. I would describe it as a really fast flutter, like I'd expect an out of balance driveshaft to feel like, now with the occasional shaking like an out of balance wheel. I torqued the hub nuts to spec when I replaced the CVs but I guess one of them could potentially have lost the clamp load?

I don't know. I sort of want to set this thing on fire and push it off a cliff.

 

[thecole1098]

I know you've already replaced the steering rack bushings and tie rods, but you should highly consider a whole new rack at this point, especially if its leaking. The shimmy on the highway and vibrations could certainly be caused by a worn rack.

I have some vibrations and a lot of play in my steering at highway speeds and I can visually see a leak at my input shaft, so I'm going to be replacing my rack with new poly bushings and inner tie rods in a couple of weeks so I'm excited to see the improvement.

 

[Bijan]

The vibrations have worsened significantly over the last two or three days (250ish miles) to the point that they're about as bad as they were before I swapped the lift. I've also started to get a pretty bad shimmy in the steering wheel over the last 40miles or so at highway speeds that comes and goes. So once again, this 4Runner that I've dumped like $5k into over the past few months is a driveway ornament.

I'm convinced it's in the front end somewhere, but every now and then it evens out to where I only feel it in the floorboard very faintly.

I'm going to order ECGS's front diff bushing and install tool as well as new seals for the front diff, but could this be bad wheel bearings? I've got heavy-ass 33s and wheel spacers on it now so there's a much higher moment working on those bearings, but it's not howling/growling like the GM unit bearings I've replaced in the past, and there was no indication that they were going bad before the lift. I would describe it as a really fast flutter, like I'd expect an out of balance driveshaft to feel like, now with the occasional shaking like an out of balance wheel. I torqued the hub nuts to spec when I replaced the CVs but I guess one of them could potentially have lost the clamp load?

I don't know. I sort of want to set this thing on fire and push it off a cliff.

f*ck me man :repuke:

 

[thezentree]

f*ck me man :repuke:

The upside is that those new coilovers ride SO much better that it's almost worth all this.







Almost.


ETA - you were right about the lift height making a difference though. I think there are just several things going on here.

 

[Skinfaxi]

I'm chasing this too. Reading this thread makes me not even want to bother.

I suspect it's the rear driveshaft on mine. I pulled it and drove around on 4Hi, and it felt like the frequency I had been noticing was gone, but there was a gnarly new vibration from the front shaft, so it was hard to tell :noidea:

ICON coils up front, set about halfway, and OME 890s out back.

 

[thezentree]

I pulled it and drove around on 4Hi, and it felt like the frequency I had been noticing was gone, but there was a gnarly new vibration from the front shaft, so it was hard to tell :noidea:

Same. Good luck. Post here if you figure it out haha.

 

[thezentree]

I'm trying to figure out what my next steps will be to fix this, so here's what I'm thinking: it's got to be somewhere in the front end based on the way it behaved in front wheel drive and the steering wheel shimmy. TREs, ball joints, steering rack bushings, and UCAs/UCA bushings are new. That leaves either the steering rack itself as [MENTION=136902]thecole1098[/MENTION] said, or the front drivetrain. The frequency of the vibration feels a lot faster than wheel speed, but it's hard to say.

I think maybe there are two separate issues based on the way the steering has started to shimmy. My thoughts are that the vibration is in the drivetrain, and the shimmy is either the steering rack going bad or the tire shop didn't torque something properly and it's starting to loosen. Lower control arm bushings?

For the drivetrain, I'm going to order new wheel bearings, ECGS's diff bushing, OEM CV axles, and diff seals since they've started leaking after I replaced the CVs last month.

If that doesn't fix it, then I will replace the steering rack.

If THAT doesn't fix it, I'm not sure where to go other than to rebuild the front diff. FFFFFFUUUUUUU

Any thoughts on the best way to proceed? I hate to keep throwing parts at it, but I'm not sure how else to troubleshoot it besides pull the CV axles and front DS and test drive it. But if I'm going to go through all of that I might as well start replacing parts while I've got it all torn apart.

I know you've already replaced the steering rack bushings and tie rods, but you should highly consider a whole new rack at this point, especially if its leaking. The shimmy on the highway and vibrations could certainly be caused by a worn rack.

I have some vibrations and a lot of play in my steering at highway speeds and I can visually see a leak at my input shaft, so I'm going to be replacing my rack with new poly bushings and inner tie rods in a couple of weeks so I'm excited to see the improvement.

Would the rack just go from being tight to bad in only a few hundred miles? I think I've driven 600 miles max since I lifted it. I'm also not convinced that the leak on the rack I see isn't engine oil from the leaking valve cover.

I'm thinking you might be right, but MAN I hope you're wrong. Just doing the bushings was a colossal pain in the ass.

 

[thecole1098]

I'm trying to figure out what my next steps will be to fix this, so here's what I'm thinking: it's got to be somewhere in the front end based on the way it behaved in front wheel drive and the steering wheel shimmy. TREs, ball joints, steering rack bushings, and UCAs/UCA bushings are new. That leaves either the steering rack itself as [MENTION=136902]thecole1098[/MENTION] said, or the front drivetrain. The frequency of the vibration feels a lot faster than wheel speed, but it's hard to say.

I think maybe there are two separate issues based on the way the steering has started to shimmy. My thoughts are that the vibration is in the drivetrain, and the shimmy is either the steering rack going bad or the tire shop didn't torque something properly and it's starting to loosen. Lower control arm bushings?

For the drivetrain, I'm going to order new wheel bearings, ECGS's diff bushing, OEM CV axles, and diff seals since they've started leaking after I replaced the CVs last month.

If that doesn't fix it, then I will replace the steering rack.

If THAT doesn't fix it, I'm not sure where to go other than to rebuild the front diff. FFFFFFUUUUUUU

Any thoughts on the best way to proceed? I hate to keep throwing parts at it, but I'm not sure how else to troubleshoot it besides pull the CV axles and front DS and test drive it. But if I'm going to go through all of that I might as well start replacing parts while I've got it all torn apart.



Would the rack just go from being tight to bad in only a few hundred miles? I think I've driven 600 miles max since I lifted it. I'm also not convinced that the leak on the rack I see isn't engine oil from the leaking valve cover.

I'm thinking you might be right, but MAN I hope you're wrong. Just doing the bushings was a colossal pain in the ass.

For the pulling CVs idea, I would highly recommend to NOT do that. The wheel bearing design on these with axle is semi floating, so the hub would have a chance of coming out from the spindle without the CV axles in place.

As for the rack, in theory it shouldn’t just go to feeling like shit in a matter of hundred miles, however stranger things have happened. I suppose a cheaper alternative fix for troubleshooting purposes would be to replace the rack guide with the newer non-roller version. There’s a very good thread on here about how to install it and what exactly it does.

 

[Skinfaxi]

In these situations, it's typically best to go from cheapest to most expensive.

 

[thezentree]

In these situations, it's typically best to go from cheapest to most expensive.

Agreed. I just don't want to have to take the front end apart more than I've already had to haha.

 

[Trojan4x4]

While probably not the case, I did have the same vibration when my rear drums would overheat from being adjusted too tight. Might be worth something to take a look at ..

 

[thezentree]

While probably not the case, I did have the same vibration when my rear drums would overheat from being adjusted too tight. Might be worth something to take a look at ..

I'm going to be so pissed if that fixes it haha.

 

[Trojan4x4]

I'm going to be so pissed if that fixes it haha.

I would adjust the rear brakes back, and machine the drums. Take it for a ride, if that fixes it that's great.
My car would get this terrible shake, after driving for maybe 20 or so min. Also brand new drums I got from the store were warped from the box, on two separate occasions so it's always good to machine them.

 

[thezentree]

I've been out of town all weekend and haven't had a chance to do anything with the 4Runner, but when I got home this afternoon I decided to crawl up under it and poke around.

I noticed that there's a lot of play in the driver's side CV where it slips into the diff. I took a short video of me pressing gently on the side of the tulip (that sounds dirty) and the CV rocking back and forth. Is this normal? This looks like it would cause all of the problems I'm having, except the steering shimmy.

No idea how to embed:

video

 

[thecole1098]

I've been out of town all weekend and haven't had a chance to do anything with the 4Runner, but when I got home this afternoon I decided to crawl up under it and poke around.

I noticed that there's a lot of play in the driver's side CV where it slips into the diff. I took a short video of me pressing gently on the side of the tulip (that sounds dirty) and the CV rocking back and forth. Is this normal? This looks like it would cause all of the problems I'm having, except the steering shimmy.

No idea how to embed:

video

Perhaps the ECGS bushing for that side will help with that. I know it's supposed to have some horizontal play but I don't think it should have vertical play like that.

 

[TravThePro]

I've been out of town all weekend and haven't had a chance to do anything with the 4Runner, but when I got home this afternoon I decided to crawl up under it and poke around.

I noticed that there's a lot of play in the driver's side CV where it slips into the diff. I took a short video of me pressing gently on the side of the tulip (that sounds dirty) and the CV rocking back and forth. Is this normal? This looks like it would cause all of the problems I'm having, except the steering shimmy.

No idea how to embed:

video

I've had issues with this on both of my 4runners. I think that thing has way too much play in it, mine shake with 1/2 that play, it's probably flopping around like crazy at highway speeds.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

 

[thezentree]

I've had issues with this on both of my 4runners. I think that thing has way too much play in it, mine shake with 1/2 that play, it's probably flopping around like crazy at highway speeds.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

How did you fix it?

 

[thezentree]

I installed the ECGS bushing and Toyota remanufactured CV axles today and it seems to have made a big difference in the vibration. There's still a little bit of a barely noticeable "thrum" sound that pulsates about once every second or two, but it does it at all speeds and the frequency of the pulsation doesn't change with speed so I don't think it's driveline related. No weird vibrations in the floorboard or the steering wheel though.

The ECGS bushing is a ***** to swap. The bearing puller tool they sell for $60 is bullshit. It's 6" of 1/2" allthread, two nuts, a steel plate with a hole in it, and a very poorly machined T-nut that I had to grind down to get it to work. I called their tech support line because I couldn't get it to seat, and they told me that these "tools" commonly don't fit 7.5" diffs as is, and that I needed to remove material until it fits. I had to grind the shit out of it to get it to come close to fitting and still ended up fracturing part of the bearing race trying to get it to seat. Once you hack it all to pieces and break the needle bearing to get it properly seated, you need to use a couple of wrenches between the plate and the diff housing so you don't crush your axle seal. That shit is WEAK for $60 and I feel like I got robbed. But whatever, it got the damn needle bearing out.

The bushing install tool they sell is the bearing race and seal kit you can buy at Harbor Freight. They sell it for about the same price as HF, so that's kind of a wash. It's a cast-iron ***** to get the bushing started square, and even more of a ***** to drive it in all the way without taking the shock and spindle totally off the truck. There's just not room to get a hammer in there on these trucks.

All that said, it's absolutely worth doing. ALL of the play in the video I posted a few days ago is gone. Just be ready for a lot of cussing and busted knuckles. It doesn't take any special skills, just a lot of patience and some imagination to cobble together the tools you need to get it fully seated.

I edited another thread I started about NAPA axles to discuss in more detail the difference between OEM and NAPA, but long story short, the OEM axles are MUCH better.

I took some pictures while I was doing this today, but I'm not going to post them unless y'all want to see them because I am lazy. If it's worth it to you, I don't mind editing and posting them though. Just say so.

 

[TravThePro]

I installed the ECGS bushing and Toyota remanufactured CV axles today and it seems to have made a big difference in the vibration. There's still a little bit of a barely noticeable "thrum" sound that pulsates about once every second or two, but it does it at all speeds and the frequency of the pulsation doesn't change with speed so I don't think it's driveline related. No weird vibrations in the floorboard or the steering wheel though.

I've been ridiculously busy with college and work, I'm sorry I didn't reply to you earlier. Really glad you figured it out and did it, sounds like it helped you out as much as it did for me. Stock bearings just really don't tend to last, I have no idea how long the bushing will last either though. They have held up pretty well for me offroad. No idea what could be the other sound unless it's still in the drivetrain.

 

[thezentree]

Welp, all the vibrations started again. It was smooth as butter for 10-15 miles on the interstate and then it all started coming back. Sometimes it feels like an out of balance tire, sometimes it feels like an out of balance driveshaft, sometimes both, sometimes the vibration isn't there.

I've done everything I know to do, so I guess I'm just going to drive it until something breaks.