Bad vibes after lift install - Solved? Solved!

[cbr900boy]

Damn man sorry to hear about the vibes coming back. Every time you post I'm hoping for a positive outcome. You mentioned the ECGS bushing, I wonder why this issue plagues the Tacomas but rarely hear about it on the 3rg gen 4runners? You mentioned that we also have a needle bearing on the driver's side and I did verify that my driver side CV has more play than my passengers. I am going to change out my CV axles soon along with the seals, maybe I should also do the bushing as well.

 

[thezentree]

Damn man sorry to hear about the vibes coming back. Every time you post I'm hoping for a positive outcome. You mentioned the ECGS bushing, I wonder why this issue plagues the Tacomas but rarely hear about it on the 3rg gen 4runners? You mentioned that we also have a needle bearing on the driver's side and I did verify that my driver side CV has more play than my passengers. I am going to change out my CV axles soon along with the seals, maybe I should also do the bushing as well.

Yeah I'm hoping for a positive outcome too, haha. I ordered some 890 springs for the rear to maybe help pinion angle (and because I want less lift) and am going to give those 245s I bought another shot. At this point though I'm starting to get used to it.

Even though it didn't help these vibrations much, that ECGS bushing is definitely worth doing, especially if you're already going to swap CVs. It took ALL of the radial play out of my drivers side CV. Seriously though, driving the bushing in sucks.

 

[thezentree]

Just a thought - could some of this vibration be caused by the panhard bar I've got? I'm running a Rokmen panhard bar, which has heims at both ends. I can see how that might transmit more vibration from the rear end into the body, especially with a pinion angle that's on the ragged edge of ideal.

When those 890s come in, I might swap the stock panhard bar in for a little while and see if that helps.

 

[thezentree]

Just a thought - could some of this vibration be caused by the panhard bar I've got? I'm running a Rokmen panhard bar, which has heims at both ends. I can see how that might transmit more vibration from the rear end into the body, especially with a pinion angle that's on the ragged edge of ideal.

When those 890s come in, I might swap the stock panhard bar in for a little while and see if that helps.

Answer: no.

890s brought the rear end down to exactly 3" of lift and it rides a lot better, but not really any change in the vibrations by running the stock panhard bar instead of the Rokmen.

 

[thezentree]

This morning I changed the caster on the upper control arms (to E, if anyone is curious) to keep the tires out of the pinch weld. Since that threw the alignment way off, I swapped the wheels and tires to the craigslist 245s on 2nd gen Tacoma steelies I bought a few months ago so as not to wear my KO2s badly on the way to get an alignment since it's not close to my house.

On the way back I took the interstate and realized that there are two different vibrations that may or may not be related:

The first is a very high frequency buzz that resonates through the body of the car. I don't feel it, but I hear it. This is the main vibration that I've been fighting for the past few months. Swapping to adjustable coilovers and 890s has helped this a lot, but it's not entirely gone. It's tolerable, so I'm just going to let it ride.

HOWEVER, the other vibration is the one that bothers me. I think the best way to describe it is like I've got a manual transmission that's in too high of a gear and the engine is lugging (even though that's not the case). I can feel this vibration through the floor, seat, and steering wheel. It will happen for 15-20 seconds at a time and then go away for a 30ish seconds. It's not scary bad, but it feels like an out of balance tire when it's at its worst.

This second vibration appears to be exacerbated by the tire weight/size. When I was driving home with those 245s, I noticed that the second vibration is still there, but it's far less severe. This leads me to believe that it's a death wobble-ish vibration that's caused by a worn suspension part. In the last 6 months, I have replaced:

LBJs
OTREs/ITREs
UCAs/UBJs (SPC)
Steering rack bushings
Front shocks (Toytec)

Any thoughts on this second vibration? I have Spidertrax 1.25" spacers on it, but running without them didn't seem to make a difference and if they were out of round I would think the vibration would be constant.

 

[thezentree]

Well, I'm 99.9% sure it's the CV axle angle that's causing the vibrations.

After Christmas I took the LT285/75R16 KO2s off and got a set of SL265/75R16s Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws installed. The ride quality improved a ton and I gained back about 2mpg. The vibration was pretty much unchanged, however. I've put a couple thousand miles on it since the new tires and the vibrations haven't gotten any worse, and it's got much better road manners now.

I've noticed that the vibrations kind of pulsate like there are two separate vibrations at very similar frequencies, kind of like twin outboards a few RPM apart. That tells me there are two rotating parts, at similar RPMs, that are vibrating. Last week I installed a set of MetalTech 4x4 adjustable rear upper control arms (3/16" longer than OEM) in an attempt to improve the rear pinion angle. It's didn't make really any difference to the vibrations, but it did make the rear end a little more planted ..I guess. Yesterday I took the diff drop out, and the vibrations got much, much worse - gotta be the CVs. This jives with pretty much everything I've tried previously, and I think I still just had too much lift the first time I tried taking the diff drop out for it to have made any difference.

I'm going to put it back in tomorrow, but how are you guys running 3+" of lift not getting vibrations like this? My front end is set to like 2.75" of lift, and while it's tolerable, it's still irritating because I know it's eventually going to kill the bearings in the front end. I don't really know what else to do other than either take the lift out entirely or just live with it.

 

[TravThePro]

Well, I'm 99.9% sure it's the CV axle angle that's causing the vibrations.

Other than replacing the diff bearings with bushings like I told you before(the ECGS ones I believe you said that you did that as well), based on what you say, I have no idea how you would fix that vibration unless it's the entire diff itself being thrown around.

I'm in the range of 3.25-3.5 in of suspension lift on my current set up on my 96, I've broken tons of axles and, bent the diff mounts and ripped out the bolts which mount it horizontally. Once I put slightly smaller bolts in with a nut on the end instead of using the stock set up (for the horizontal ADD mounts), I was able to get it to be extremely stiff which helped me to stop breaking axles and got rid of a bit of vibes at higher speeds.

If you have your main front skid off, see if you can pry your diff forwards and backward (towards the front and back of the truck) from the passenger side (ADD side).

I also run a 2 inch diff drop because I snapped axles like toothpicks with 35 inch tires otherwise, I didn't really notice a difference in vibes but I never had them horrible before I put the 2 incher on. You could try running more spacing and that could help relieve the pressure a little more if it actually is the CVs.

Good luck!

 

[ptsailing]

HI guys...have been lurking on this forum for years and finally had to make an account as it has been waaaaaaay to painful to follow this post.

I have the same exact lift kit and had the exact same problem with the exact same vibration after installing the kit.

I did a bunch of research on here and called the Lift kit company to pick their brains after several rounds of balancing and alignments and it ended up being that I had 4" of lift in the front end. I screwed down the front of the lift and got it down to the 3" as it was designed to me and the vibrations went away immediately.

Hope this helps

 

[thezentree]

Other than replacing the diff bearings with bushings like I told you before(the ECGS ones I believe you said that you did that as well), based on what you say, I have no idea how you would fix that vibration unless it's the entire diff itself being thrown around.

I'm in the range of 3.25-3.5 in of suspension lift on my current set up on my 96, I've broken tons of axles and, bent the diff mounts and ripped out the bolts which mount it horizontally. Once I put slightly smaller bolts in with a nut on the end instead of using the stock set up (for the horizontal ADD mounts), I was able to get it to be extremely stiff which helped me to stop breaking axles and got rid of a bit of vibes at higher speeds.

If you have your main front skid off, see if you can pry your diff forwards and backward (towards the front and back of the truck) from the passenger side (ADD side).

I also run a 2 inch diff drop because I snapped axles like toothpicks with 35 inch tires otherwise, I didn't really notice a difference in vibes but I never had them horrible before I put the 2 incher on. You could try running more spacing and that could help relieve the pressure a little more if it actually is the CVs.

Good luck!

Yeah, I did the ECGS bushing a few months ago. It definitely tightened that side CV axle up but didn't help really with the vibration.

Have you got a pic of what you're talking about with the ADD bolts? When I put the diff drop back in today I couldn't really get any noticeable movement out of the front diff, but maybe I wasn't yanking on it hard enough.

HI guys...have been lurking on this forum for years and finally had to make an account as it has been waaaaaaay to painful to follow this post.

I have the same exact lift kit and had the exact same problem with the exact same vibration after installing the kit.

I did a bunch of research on here and called the Lift kit company to pick their brains after several rounds of balancing and alignments and it ended up being that I had 4" of lift in the front end. I screwed down the front of the lift and got it down to the 3" as it was designed to me and the vibrations went away immediately.

Hope this helps

I'm at 2.75" right now and while dropping the lift helped a lot, it didn't completely eliminate it.

 

[andres4runner]

its your bushings in your steering,use polyurthane replcements.its the sway bar bushings and the steering rack bushings ,it will go away forever

 

[theesotericone]

its your bushings in your steering,use polyurthane replcements.its the sway bar bushings and the steering rack bushings ,it will go away forever

Did you even read any of the thread? He's replaced the rack bushing. Sway bars have zero to do with it. Both of mine are removed and my rigs vibration free.
[MENTION=158195]thezentree[/MENTION]

I know you've replaced the tires a few times. Have you changed out the rims yet? I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the thread.

 

[thezentree]

Did you even read any of the thread? He's replaced the rack bushing. Sway bars have zero to do with it. Both of mine are removed and my rigs vibration free.

[MENTION=158195]thezentree[/MENTION]

I know you've replaced the tires a few times. Have you changed out the rims yet? I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the thread.

Yep, I bought a set of steel 2nd gen Tacoma wheels with 245s on it off craigslist a few months ago. They really highlighted the tire issues, but the vibration I've still got was there with the steel wheels too.

 

[MACHINA]

I'm at 2.75" right now and while dropping the lift helped a lot, it didn't completely eliminate it.

This makes me curious how much, if any, the vibration would change if your front was at 2.5" or 2".

I went about 30k miles at just over 3" on the front with no vibrations or issues, other than CV boots that tore. And that was with 285 Duratracs. I finally dropped it to 2.5" to improve the CV angles. I have the Toytec/Eibach 620 spring setup that you had, just on Tundra 5100s so there was one lower notch to get me to 2.5".

How much lower can the Boss setup go? Might be worth playing around with lift height, and a larger diff drop spacer. Not sure how much else there is that you haven't already tried.

 

[thezentree]

This makes me curious how much, if any, the vibration would change if your front was at 2.5" or 2".

I went about 30k miles at just over 3" on the front with no vibrations or issues, other than CV boots that tore. And that was with 285 Duratracs. I finally dropped it to 2.5" to improve the CV angles. I have the Toytec/Eibach 620 spring setup that you had, just on Tundra 5100s so there was one lower notch to get me to 2.5".

How much lower can the Boss setup go? Might be worth playing around with lift height, and a larger diff drop spacer. Not sure how much else there is that you haven't already tried.

I bet I could drop it another inch or so. My gut tells me that would improve the vibrations, especially with the diff drop, but I don't really want to go any lower so I can still clear 33s (eventually I'm going to put some cheap MTs on those Tacoma wheels for trail riding). Even if I did drop it an inch or more temporarily, I'd still end up cranking it back up to where it is now. If/when it eventually tears the front end up, I'm just going to use it as an excuse to buy a rebuilt front end with 4.56s. I've been using the 4Runner as my DD, but I've got another vehicle that I can DD if the 4Runner breaks in a bad way.

Another thought: could the bushings mounting the front diff be shot and they're just transmitting more vibrations to the frame than most of yall get? Have I overtorqued the mounting bolts (100 lb-ft).

 

[thecole1098]

I bet I could drop it another inch or so. My gut tells me that would improve the vibrations, especially with the diff drop, but I don't really want to go any lower so I can still clear 33s (eventually I'm going to put some cheap MTs on those Tacoma wheels for trail riding). Even if I did drop it an inch or more temporarily, I'd still end up cranking it back up to where it is now. If/when it eventually tears the front end up, I'm just going to use it as an excuse to buy a rebuilt front end with 4.56s. I've been using the 4Runner as my DD, but I've got another vehicle that I can DD if the 4Runner breaks in a bad way.

Another thought: could the bushings mounting the front diff be shot and they're just transmitting more vibrations to the frame than most of yall get? Have I overtorqued the mounting bolts (100 lb-ft).

With 33s I would skip the 456s and just go up to 488s. It’s always better to gear lower to be safe.

 

[TravThePro]

Have you got a pic of what you're talking about with the ADD bolts? When I put the diff drop back in today I couldn't really get any noticeable movement out of the front diff, but maybe I wasn't yanking on it hard enough..

Let me get you a picture, it's a bit muddy but hopefully I can show it.

 

[skott]

This might be bit of an extreme, but get your hands on two trashed CV joints and take them apart so you only have the splined end parts. Replace your existing CV shafts with just these ends (so you don't lose all your diff fluid or trash your wheel bearings), and see if the vibrations go away. I know, sounds stupid, but hey, it just may work.

 

[thezentree]

This might be bit of an extreme, but get your hands on two trashed CV joints and take them apart so you only have the splined end parts. Replace your existing CV shafts with just these ends (so you don't lose all your diff fluid or trash your wheel bearings), and see if the vibrations go away. I know, sounds stupid, but hey, it just may work.

Not gonna lie, I've considered this. I actually have two almost brand new NAPA remans in my basement, but I can't bring myself to dissect them when they're great trail spares for all the mall crawling I do.

 

[CRB Racing]

I am having the same vibration from 60-70 mph. I thought it was possible from me cranking up the front coils causing the CV to be at a stepper angle.
Adjusted the coil with about .5” of threads remaining, vibration is still there.

 

[thezentree]

Let's pontificate for a minute, because there's snow on the ground and the windchill is 5 degrees. I have zero desire to turn wrenches in that nonsense.

If it is indeed the CV angle, the fact that three separate sets of CV axles (two of them brand new) haven't really affected the issue tells me it's not a problem with the CVs themselves. If so many of you are running 3" of lift without these vibrations, then my 2.75" is within an acceptable range of angle.

What then, could it be? Remember, this started immediately after I lifted it. I didn't notice this at all with stock suspension and tires.

Looking at the FSM, I think it could be the outer bearing on the passenger side of the diff (circled below). There's a few millimeters of radial play at the inner CV tulip. This is a video I made of the driver's side a few months ago before I installed the ECGS bushing, but it illustrates what I'm talking about. The passenger side doesn't have this much play but there is some. It's too f-ing cold to go video the passenger side right now, but you get the point.

Another possibility is maybe the SPC upper control arms are pushing the knuckle too far away from the diff, which could pull the CV tripod towards the edge of the inner CV tulip. The UBJ is pretty centered in the UCA slot though, and the alignment is within factory specs. This could explain why it's done this across 3 sets of CVs but given the alignment specs, I think this is unlikely.

Could bad LCA bushings or wheel bearings do this? Literally every other wear item in the front end has been replaced within the last 8 months.

Would someone who doesn't have vibrations like this be willing to go look at their passenger side CV at the diff and see if they have radial play at the outer diff bearing?