If I may ask, where are you going with all this?
Bent Frame?
- Thread starter stever1000
- Start date
If I may ask, where are you going with all this?
MN4runnerman
Senior Member
Op was wondering what spots to check to be able to tell if it was in an accident. Those that I listed are where I found the frame to wrinkle after an impact.
IBallEngineer
New member
Body damage has nothing to do with steering wheel shudder! I understand the OP has little or no mechanical skills, but checking for frame damage is accomplished by measuring, not by looking for panel misalignment or paint condition. Its as easy as taking TWO measurements under the vehicle, in a cross diagonal pattern. Or just measuring wheelbase to start with!
That said, I've driven vehicles with MAJOR frame damage that had no stearing wheel shake or driveability issues. That doesn't mean they can't be related, only that we are inventing problems here.
The OP should take his vehicle to a competent shop for a professional examination of his problem.
One last thing, Frame damage IS repairable.
:keyboard:
That said, I've driven vehicles with MAJOR frame damage that had no stearing wheel shake or driveability issues. That doesn't mean they can't be related, only that we are inventing problems here.
The OP should take his vehicle to a competent shop for a professional examination of his problem.
One last thing, Frame damage IS repairable.
:keyboard:
stever1000
New member
Actually I do have mechanical skills :doh:
I kind of thought that if the body panels are all out of whack, that would lead to frame damage, causing the suspension and steering to suffer as well? I'm also not afraid to ask questions - I came here for help because it is a new vehicle, and I have never dealt with an accident before so I want to be extra cautious and cover all aspects so I (or my family) don't get hurt. I tried to save myself time by taking it to a bigbox shop for a quick check, which resulted in possible misinformation. Hence my panic here...
Yesterday I printed out the frame dimensions which I am planning on measuring tonight.
I fully intended (even before posting here) to go to a frame and alignment shop to have them check and inspect it properly.
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stever1000
New member
I failed in cross measuring the frame so far - I will pick up a couple plumb bobs today to make it easier to measure
I read that if the frame is off much, it can affect the front end alignment, which would also explain my steering wheel shudder if the alignment is off. I'm also wondering about my lower control arm bushings but can't see them with the alignment cam.
I found one area that was bent, the body mount that the bumper connects to on the passenger side. I wonder if this is enough to skew up all the body lines? I won't know until I measure some more
I read that if the frame is off much, it can affect the front end alignment, which would also explain my steering wheel shudder if the alignment is off. I'm also wondering about my lower control arm bushings but can't see them with the alignment cam.
I found one area that was bent, the body mount that the bumper connects to on the passenger side. I wonder if this is enough to skew up all the body lines? I won't know until I measure some more
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Pics
The missing bolt (shown with the arrow) is what caused the bumper to be high on the pass. side. You can level the front bumper with a bolt in. Loosen all 4 bolts onn both sides and level it and then tight all 4 bolts.
Post more pictures near the circled area. From the picture I see nothing major to the frame.
The missing bolt (shown with the arrow) is what caused the bumper to be high on the pass. side. You can level the front bumper with a bolt in. Loosen all 4 bolts onn both sides and level it and then tight all 4 bolts.
Post more pictures near the circled area. From the picture I see nothing major to the frame.
Attachments
stever1000
New member
Thanks for the help! I will grab more pictures of that area soon. I will admit, I didn't see any wrinkles or noticeable damage while under there, besides the bumper mount.
On a different note, I have found a good deal on lower control arm assembly and some other components so I will replace that stuff. I don't know the history, even though they feel tight I would be happier knowing the condition. I hope this solves the shudder if in fact the frame / subframe is straight.
On a different note, I have found a good deal on lower control arm assembly and some other components so I will replace that stuff. I don't know the history, even though they feel tight I would be happier knowing the condition. I hope this solves the shudder if in fact the frame / subframe is straight.
stever1000
New member
Going to take it in for an alignment soon now that work is quieting down
What are the chances of the upper and lower control arms bending in an accident? I'm trying to decide whether to order LBJ/UBJ and bushings or complete new arms
What are the chances of the upper and lower control arms bending in an accident? I'm trying to decide whether to order LBJ/UBJ and bushings or complete new arms
stever1000
New member
Scramble
New member
Here are some more pics
(yes I know the two bezels are missing under the lights)
Sorry, I don't mean to kick a man when he's down but how could you not notice these body issues when you looked at it? Also the uneven tire wear is a red flag.
stever1000
New member
stever1000
New member
I didn't pay attention to the body...the drivetrain was good so I was happy.
the tire wear I assumed was from needing an alignment.
Beaumont67
New member
stever - sorry for your frame troubles, but we all have learned from 1 mistake or another.
- gain much experience and the buying process, can start to become fun
- your Gen3 probably needs a frame horn pulled straight
- easy enough for a good shop, with right equipment and labor talent
Your SUV can be pulled straight (have no fear), just requiring a little more expenses at this point.
- it runs perfect & rust free so that's great
- you only missed the accident signs to bargain down the purchase price
BUT I must warn you, BigBox & Big Franchise Shops are a waste of time & money...quicker your learn this, the better.
- you have to find a small independent shop that takes pride in doing an honest job
^^ Treat each & every future contact for any service, like your hiring a Divorce Lawyer.
- avoid being taken to the cleaners ($$)
40 years ago I bought a 1968 Dodge Dart, a $200 DD'er needing much lower body work.
Quickly I learned: these cars don't have front inner fenders / and fender tops all rust out, driven on winter roads.
- spent a few months part time hand fabricating lower door skins, quarter and fender patches to fix the rust issues
Then I spotted a foot of frame rot (both sides) near the torque box ends.
First time I crawled under the car..."surprise", Not a LOL moment.
- took a couple more weekends to Oxy/Acet. the Frame repair in 10g boxed metal / tiring job, lying on the hard cement floor
- steel filler welding with a torch was a slow process, before Mig welders invented
Lesson learned to 100% judge vehicles for rust cancer & former body repairs...only takes a minute or two of critical observations.
- now I crawl under a vehicle, before I ever buy or talk price & look at all fit & finish for hiden problems
- if I find issues & I'm still interested, the learned knowledge makes for a fantastic bargaining chip
My good friend owns his own garage and he stands behind his workmanship.
- I even supply my own parts sometimes (at good savings) & only pay for labor...he also gives me parts, at dealer cost
- he always treats me like a valued customer and we share similar father values & car flipping stories
- he even invites me to drop by & we end up chatting
Last year I drop by & he was overly busy (2 mechanics in a 4 bay shop) plus he was cutting grass...2 acre lot.
- I ordered him off the MTD rider, and I rode the garden tractor, for an hour
- so he could get back to his main business
Another time, I stayed after hours for an hour, to run the Oxy/Act. torch...during a muffler & tail pipe install, on a rusty mini van.
^^ A few months ago, I needed my 2000 SR5 heater/fan box changed out with a broken vent door pivot.
His ace mechanic also replaced my used AC evaporator & heater core with new, when the dash was removed...very labor intensive job / don't want to tear down whole dash again.
- I go to pay up & he gives me a rather large discount on parts & labor
And the fix was done to complete satisfaction @ half the full cost.
My brother lives up North and found a licenced mechanic that is in the top 1% knowledge & skill level...in the field.
- he hold down a full time job & also work every evening in his home shop / his wife even details cars
- brother gets excellent repairs at a fraction of the retail cost
My brother also collided with a dump truck that failed to yield right of way & run through a stop sign.
- his Jeep TJ had $11,000 in front end damage / one frame horn pushed back a lot
- he found a frame gut with 30 years experience that did side jobs / in a home shop, he pulled it perfectly straight, with a helper
- totaled Accident didn't even go onto CarFax / my brother never handed over his Jeep's ownership (so Not branded) & bough Jeep off Insurance Company, at estimated auction cost plus paid cost of a weeks vehicle storage fees at Towing guy's compound
(another reason to have a damaged vehicle, towed home / never to a 3rd party lot, incuring fees)
- he sourced all parts & labor and pocketed much $$...still driving the southern Jeep, that he imported from USA
- went to a top alignment shop (local 1 man operation)...everything dialed easily into spec.
PS - check out the local Community Colleges, that teach the Auto Body Technicians / apprentice training.
- schools often have the best equipment, at tax payer funding
Sometimes they need a donor vehicle for their frame rack and the repair would be done labor free.
- students & teacher would fix it right...following trade guidelines
In the last decade, I've owned 2 reliable vehicles with branded ownership's.
Wife drove 2002 Volvo v70 for 7 years with 300,000 Km (still on road today) & I'm driving my 1998 Silverado 4x4 as a spare vehicle periodically now (owned 8 yrs. already) and still handles like new...my Jimmy was never hit hard enough, to be totaled & I never pulled a CarFax on it.
- her former Volvo wagon (former shock tower side impact) was purchased safety checked & e-tested, at 25% below wholesale / plus I knew the repair shops high quality...vehicle went on their frame rack, laser proved unibody-frame to be straight (within spec.)
- my 3/4 ton truck was written off twice / last time the whole frame was replaced, with a near new one
- it got many new parts, like a new radiator, used rust free frame had ball joints, etc. with very low miles
- my mechanic agreed, a 15 year old truck at the time & all components installed was a upgrade...from Insurance company
- was like driving a $65,000 new truck for $10k invested & a rust free frame was a bonus, living in the rust belt
- I spoke to shop foreman & got the history and details of the repair, before purchased privately
My current Jimmy had one suspect gap between door & fender bottom (I identified concern within 60 seconds, after one walk around visual inspection).
- but it still runs & drives excellent, and tire wear is uniform / brakes straight, etc.
- but I'm self trained in auto body / enjoy welding & painting...did it as a self-trained hobby, for 15 years (on weekends)
- 4x4 SUV purchased for the cost of the Insurance paint job
A trained eye, can capture a good deal...purchasing restored collision vehicles (without water damage), is not always a big No-No.
Key is, "was it fixed right" & "is it value priced".
FYI stever - this might save you some future coin, since your also from Canada.
a) I order the following premium brake kits & have shipped to my door.
ELITE xDS Series Kits, Select Your Brake Kits (1-888-827-7927)
- using on '08 RAV4 Limited now & awesome quality w/improved stopping distance
- did the rears last fall...saved several hundred dollars/axle, avoiding Toyota Dealership
- I order 4 wheel brake parts, cheaper that way...now front brakes due in 6 months time & parts are stored here
b) Prime Choice Auto Parts / Ottawa (1-866-990-3871)
- got upper & lower ball joints, for a 1996 Jeep XJ...far superior to NAPA/UAP China "white box" line
- 4 piece kit was $56 total, shipped to my front door plus 3 hours labor at $200 = $250 total spend
- Chrysler Dealership wanted $1,100 + 13% HST...only phoned for quote, a sh*ts & giggles comparison
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stever1000
New member
Excellent info! Thank you for your reply! I will definitely stay away from bigbox stores from now on
stever1000
New member
If I get an alignment, will they (assuming they are competent), be able to tell if the UCA or LCA have been bent?
stever1000
New member
That's a great idea
stever1000
New member
How likely are the control arms to bend in an accident?
phattyduck
Elite Member
If the suspension was hit, likely. If just the body was hit, unlikely. There is no way to know the likelihood unless you have pictures of the accident or of the crashed vehicle.
-Charlie
stever1000
New member
I'm trying to rebuild my suspension with the stock arms but there is not edvidence of how severe the accident was, except for the wavy body lines between panels, and my front bumper mounts being crooked
