Best Security for an 02 Limited.

[Jidaran]

I’m moving from DC to Baltimore next month, and I’m getting a little nervous about the 4Runner. The neighborhood we’ll be in isn’t the best (hardly anywhere in Baltimore is “safe”) and there’s no off street parking.

Background: My fiance’s XJ was stolen from in front of our house last year, we recovered it the next day. It didn’t have an alarm. Putting it back together was a real lesson in how easy it is to steal those old Cherokees. We got a $300 Viper alarm installed and have been very happy with it. I'm trying to figure out if I should go the same path with the 4Runner.

Options:

1. Keep it as is: It’s an 02 Limited so I assume it has the factory alarm with the immobilizer. I’ve never heard the alarm go off (unlike the XJ, which starts wailing if a Harley goes by) but from what I understand, the factory alarms are pretty good.

2. Get a Viper alarm: This is probably the most secure option, but most of the threads I can find on here are about people having problems with theirs. Not sure I want them to **** up my wiring either (more than I already have). I guess I could install myself though.

3. Install a kill switch: Nothing cooler than a secret switch in your truck right? Except it sounds like most good car thieves know where to find them.

4. Pull the starter relay when parking overnight: I’m not sure if I’ll be DDing the 4Runner yet. If it’s sitting for most of the week, this probably isn’t a horrible idea.

Obviously the major downsides of relying on 3 and 4 is that even if they don’t get the 4Runner, I still have to deal with the break in and a ****ed up ignition switch / wiring.

So what makes the most sense?

 

[brillo_76]

Move to a better area makes the most sense... [ I Know not always and option but ..]


Being our alarms are 20 years old. I go with a new alarm system plus a kill switch along with a gps trackers. This way if they manage to steal it the gps tracker will locate it fast.

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[leftyguns21]

sucks that you have to put that much thought in to it.

a guy who used to work for my dad used a red LED blinking light he got at radio shack to simulate an alarm. the one night he didn't have it on, his car was broken in to. real cheap option to make them think twice. he put it on top of the center bezel so it was big and bright and obvious.

what about a web cam? or even a fake web cam. that might deter thieves thinking they are being filmed. drawback is enticing them to break in and steal that.

kill switch would work, but thieves will destroy your car trying to figure it out. might not steal it but you will still have a mess.

 

[Malcolm99]

If it's a Limited and you have a factory Toyota immobilizer (says on the ring around the ignition) it makes the vehicle virtually impossible to steal without a programmed and cut key, if you had a Nov 98-2000 it's literally impossible to steal unless you have a original key, and if you lose ALL the keys you need a new ECU and keys,. so if you where stealing it you MUST have a programmed key. Even if someone swipped your keys and copied it the key won't start the rig until it's programmed using an original key, unlike the new Toyota/Lexus systems getting hacked using the vin in the window. You cannot hack our Toyotas anti-theft immobilizer system without a key period, and you would have to break the glass and open a door to set off the alarm, or to test it, lock all the doors and leave the back side door window down and open it from the inside and the alarm will go off, it doesn't have motion sensors on the steering column like the viper alarms and others as you can't drive it without a key regardless.

 

[Brian.]

...if you had a Nov 98-2000 it's literally impossible to steal unless you have a original key, and if you lose ALL the keys you need a new ECU and keys....

You cannot hack our Toyotas anti-theft immobilizer system without a key period

Careful, this isn't true. The info is out there in the wild, enough that I was able to buy a junkyard ECU and program it to accept new keys. It's a Little cumbersome, but not really that big of a deal... enterprising criminals carry pre-programmed ECU's to just swap the wiring harness to so there's no worry about that kind of issue. It takes Seconds to grab the glovebox out and do the swap.

But most will simply drag it off with a towtruck if they Really want it.


I lived and worked in Baltimore back in the 1990's, about the best theft protection I could come up with was having something ratty enough that it didn't draw any attention. Kept my nice stuff in a storage unit out of town... cost me an extra grand a year (plus the beater cost, but I didn't lose any money when I sold it), but was the best option I could come up with.

Alarms don't do anything IMHO. Everyone is so thoroughly programmed to ignore car alarms these days that it's a worthless "feature". Kill switches are better, and there are GOOD ways to hide these if you're creative (I have one that's completely hidden and is a 2-step activation with different controls in the car that trigger relays... think something like having to hit the left turn signal first, then the brake to allow startup...) It's just an automatic process now, though took a few months to burn it into memory.


Just remember that if someone wants it bad enough, they will get it no matter what you do to try and prevent it. Accept that as fact. Get insurance to cover most of the loss should that happen. Past that, you just need to make yours less of a target than something else nearby. I didn't even lock my ratty car when in Baltimore because I didn't want to deal with the broken glass. But there was no radio, it was tired and worn inside, dented and dinged outside (with plenty more added for living in Baltimore), it just looked like a POS....

 

[Malcolm99]

Are you sure it was a Nov98-early 2000 ecu, I never seen it documented as possible without a pre-programmed key, the dealer supplied late 2000ecu's and cut keys to fit your rig to remedy the "lost all keys" senerio. And as far as carrying an ECU around, that won't work unless you had keys cut to fit that specific 4Runner and programmed to donor ecu so again not likely or possible without original keys programmed to new ECU, and if the thief Carries an ignition cylinder with his own keys programmed to donor ecu the alarm will go off as soon as the door or hood(even the hood is wired for anti-theft if you go straight for the battery) opens until battery is disconnected. This all seems very unlikely and yes towing it away would be easier.

*So careful because what your saying isn't true or really possible even if you could program an Nov98-early 2000 ecu, or get a late 2000ecu with keys and ignition cylinder open a door with alarm going off, open hood, disconnect battery, remove and replace ecu and ignition cylinder and reconnect battery and hope you got the right ECU for this specific 4R,.. Seems like a very unlikely story or possibility even for the enthusiastic thief.

On that note, anyone ever had a 3rd gen 4Runner with Toyota immobilizer hot wired in anyway shape or form and stolen,..? Didn't think so, it's never happened to date afaik.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Pulling a relay is something I've done before. You could also pull a sensor like the MAF or D/C the crankshaft position sensor, something that you average thief wouldn't know is even there. Just know that thieves aren't always from "out of town", some may be neighbors connected with the wrong crowds so if you pull the same relay over and over someone might see you do it and catch on. But nobody is going to have a spare EFI relay or starter relay laying around in their tool bag and steal the 4Runner.

I've installed kill switches before when we had some car thefts and vandalisms in our apt. Never did get stolen or broken into but was preparing in case it did happen. I put my kill switch under the passenger's side seat, so if you do the kill switch route be creative. You could put it behind the rear view mirror, in the rear heater controls (have to slide heat "off" or something tricky like that), don't put it under the dash because you are right, everyone would look there first and make a mess.

If you decide not to DD the 4Runner then some sort of long-term storage isn't a bad idea at all. Best theft protection of all is to put it in a garage or lock it up somewhere secure.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Set up a valve in the exhaust that reroutes the exhaust gas to the passenger compartment if the key isn’t detected

 

[Jidaran]

So I confirmed the alarm works via Malcom's suggestion (tip for anyone reading this in the future - you have to give the system a few seconds to engage after locking it before you can trigger the alarm).

For the vehicle itself, it's not super clean, but most of the blemishes and dents wouldn't be that visible in the dark. It's pretty much stock and probably looks like the average old SUV to most. I'm not sure I can get comprehensive on it, as it has a rebuilt title. I might be changing insurance though, so I can shop around. Can't imagine they'd give me more than $3k though (which is less than it's worth on the market, and way less than it's worth to me). They assessed salvage value at $2k when it was totalled.

From everything I've read, if they want it, they'll take it. The trick is to make the cost / benefit analysis such that they won't bother. A loud alarm can make that difference.

I might take that suggestion and install and LED. Maybe stop cleaning it as well.

I'm also thinking about getting 2005 Corolla for the fiance's commute. Definitely gonna look into offsite storage.

If anyone's curious, it's in Seaton Hill. Just two blocks from where much of the first season of the Wire was filmed (Remember "The Pit"?)

 

[brillo_76]

Lots of great ideas here.



Still my favorite theft protection system. The trunk monkey. Only from the suburban group.. :]

Trunk Monkey Compilation
Trunk Monkey Compilation - YouTube

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[brillo_76]

So I confirmed the alarm works via Malcom's suggestion (tip for anyone reading this in the future - you have to give the system a few seconds to engage after locking it before you can trigger the alarm).



For the vehicle itself, it's not super clean, but most of the blemishes and dents wouldn't be that visible in the dark. It's pretty much stock and probably looks like the average old SUV to most. I'm not sure I can get comprehensive on it, as it has a rebuilt title. I might be changing insurance though, so I can shop around. Can't imagine they'd give me more than $3k though (which is less than it's worth on the market, and way less than it's worth to me).



From everything I've read, if they want it, they'll take it. The trick is to make the cost / benefit analysis such that they won't bother. A loud alarm can make that difference.



I might take that suggestion and install and LED. Maybe stop cleaning it as well.



If anyone's curious, it's in Seaton Hill. Just two blocks from where much of the first season of the Wire was filmed (Remember the couch in the Pit?)

I can see your concern. Some areas sadly are extremely bad for grand theft auto.

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[lockedlex]

I'd also be worried about your cats, at least here in Cali, they're going after 4runner and Prius cats like crazy.

Even in really good neighborhoods because its only take about 20 seconds to pull a cat out of a 4runner (high ground clearance=easy access).

 

[brillo_76]

I'd also be worried about your cats, at least here in Cali, they're going after 4runner and Prius cats like crazy.



Even in really good neighborhoods because its only take about 20 seconds to pull a cat out of a 4runner (high ground clearance=easy access).

Very good point. Thankfully I live in a rural area. However, the PO of my rig lost his cat in his driveway.

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[5VZ-FE]

the PO of my rig lost his cat in his driveway.

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Same thing happened to my T100 twice in Ca, in a good neighborhood.

I was at a pick n pull a while ago and I saw a 4runner factory alarm light (the one that goes to the left of the steering column I believe) laying on the counter and the dude said I could have it. I’m out of switch space though so I’ll have to figure something else out.

 

[brillo_76]

Same thing happened to my T100 twice in Ca, in a good neighborhood.

I was at a pick n pull a while ago and I saw a 4runner factory alarm light (the one that goes to the left of the steering column I believe) laying on the counter and the dude said I could have it. I’m out of switch space though so I’ll have to figure something else out.

I guess it's fairly common. I just really hate any kind of theft. People work for what they have and the punishments for these thieves is way to low. Not only should they have to replace it. They should be punished harsh enough that they never want to do that again.

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[rkntoy]

Another for the kill switch - I like the fuel pump route.

 

[brillo_76]

Another for the kill switch - I like the fuel pump route.

That's what I would go. I would actually switch the ground on the fuel pump for a kill switch. Be easy to get to as the wires run down the drivers side body harness too.

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[gamefreakgc]

That's what I would go. I would actually switch the ground on the fuel pump for a kill switch. Be easy to get to as the wires run down the drivers side body harness too.

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This is crucial. I've seen people try and put a switch on the fuel pump power wire, this wire can see a lot of amps and can melt the switch. But adding it to the ground off the relay is much much safer.

 

[brillo_76]

This is crucial. I've seen people try and put a switch on the fuel pump power wire, this wire can see a lot of amps and can melt the switch. But adding it to the ground off the relay is much much safer.

Yes sir. The only other way to do it would be to relay the fuel pump positive. That way the positive can be on 30 amp contacts and they last a long time before being damaged.


Your seeing people damage things because they not understanding how much current it takes to run the fuel pump.

Lots of times, it's best to step back and think about circuits and how they normally function before any type of modification should occur.

This is something that's being lost as time goes by. Instead of figuring things out and studying how they function. People watch a YouTube video and are experts. Granted these videos are very informative and extremely helpful. Folks really should understand fundamental electrical wiring and use proper gauge wiring to handle the current required unless they want to melt down their rigs...

Plus the knowledge they gain can be applied to other circuits and situations.

I wish that's a trait the younger generations would learn. As it would benefit them their entire lives if they learn how things actually function and work. Instead of just wanting an instant answer on an exact issue they are having. As it make them very good troubleshooters.

[ sorry I get off my soapbox now ]

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