Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[mscot]

The only real difference, it seems, is David thinks they're going to flip the names.
It kinda makes sense as in the US the LC badge has been considered high end and the 4R more rugged the past decade.
He left out any thought on the Lexus becoming more of a Disco competitor, though.

 

[Dave Z]

While not the 4runner...does this change anything if Toyota does bring back the Land Cruiser 300 to the US?

Reported on Carscoops.com:
Images of a Toyota Land Cruiser spotted in the U.S. wearing Illinois manufacturer license plates are fueling speculation that the iconic SUV might be gearing up for a return to North America.

The single 2023 Land Cruiser GR Sport was photographed on the back of a transporter together with a BMW M4 and a pair of Jeep Wranglers. Close-up images show the prominent GR branding and part-red leather interior.

Toyota withdrew the J200 Land Cruiser from the North American market in 2021 after poor sales and opted not to import its 2022 J300 replacement, offering only the Toyota’s upscale sister, the Lexus LX, instead. Both models swapped their predecessors’ naturally aspirated V8s for a 3.4-liter twin-turbo V6 rated at 409 hp (415 PS).

But late last year Toyota Motor North America Executive Vice President of Sales Jack Hollis hinted that the legendarily tough truck might have unfinished business on the continent. “Will we ever? I would say likely yes,” he replied when asked by Motor Trend if Toyota would ever bring the Land Cruiser back to U.S. showrooms.

Carscoops Article

 

[TexasFunRunner]

While not the 4runner...does this change anything if Toyota does bring back the Land Cruiser 300 to the US?

The single 2023 Land Cruiser GR Sport was photographed on the back of a transporter together with a BMW M4 and a pair of Jeep Wranglers. Close-up images show the prominent GR branding and part-red leather interior.

It could be a test mule since it shares the TNGA-F platform, such as it may contain the upcoming 4Runner or LC drivetrain.

The competitors' cars are typically there for comparison testing.

 

[Jetboy]

I think we can all agree, AP David is reading this forum and using it as a partial source for his videos.

"Stuck" and bored in one of the most beautiful states in the US, you need to recalibrate your expectations and adventures.

Alaska is fun to visit. Living here without kids would be a lot of fun. With little kids is not fun. It is cold, dark, wet almost all year so hard to spend time outside with small kids, there's very few indoor activities. The fun outdoor stuff is mostly multiple hour drive away from Anchorage and only really viable about 60-80 days a year.

My anecdotal experience is that the people I know spend a lot more time outside in Utah, Montana, Colorado, Idaho etc. than they do in Alaska. Alaskans spend more time than any other state watching TV and on computers. More than twice as much time on average as most other states. That suggests to me that Alaskans are probably spending more time indoors than any other state despite the perception as an outdoor oriented place. And it's very outdoorsy - for 3 months a year.

 

[mscot]

Alright, so I may eat my previous words. If the 4Runner gets the hybrid max engine they are putting in the Grand Highlander, and they tune it and the transmission for more low end torque, it would probably work really well.

2.4l Turbo
362hp/400 ft lb

 

[Blackwatch]

Alright, so I may eat my previous words. If the 4Runner gets the hybrid max engine they are putting in the Grand Highlander, and they tune it and the transmission for more low end torque, it would probably work really well.

2.4l Turbo
362hp/400 ft lb

Those are very attractive numbers but the price difference to go from a TRD off-road 4.0 V6 to most likely the TRD Pro hybrid will be a full Toyota Camry$$$.

I'm waiting to see the Land Cruiser price and engine offering. Should be out before the 6th gen 4R.

 

[mscot]

Those are very attractive numbers but the price difference to go from a TRD off-road 4.0 V6 to most likely the TRD Pro hybrid will be a full Toyota Camry$$$.

I'm waiting to see the Land Cruiser price and engine offering. Should be out before the 6th gen 4R.

I think the Grand Highlander pricing, which is expected by summer, will be a good indicator of the junmps between 4R and LC engines.

 

[Jetboy]

Alright, so I may eat my previous words. If the 4Runner gets the hybrid max engine they are putting in the Grand Highlander, and they tune it and the transmission for more low end torque, it would probably work really well.

2.4l Turbo
362hp/400 ft lb

Seems all but a forgone conclusion at this point that it'll be either Turbo 4 or NA 4 hybrid and the turbo hybrid MAX is a coin toss. Toyota always seems to underpower the 4R and Tacoma (4th gen v8 aside).

The reason I don't think we'll see the 360hp setup is that the hybrid MAX version for the Tundra/sequoia only adds about 40hp. The hybrid max setup on the transaxle setup is a lot more powerful than the one on the longitudinal BOF models. The T24A only makes 275hp. So I wouldn't expect more than about 310hp in a hybrid MAX. So something like 240-310hp. It's going to be at the low end of competitors like the Bronco at 275-420hp and Wrangler 270-470hp.

I assume Toyota uses "max" ironically. If they go the same route as the Sequoia - that probably means going from around 85cf of cargo volume down to about 60cf. The Sequoia rear side panels are very thick in addition to the batter pack on the floor - they move the battery from the engine bay to the rear quarter panel to make room for the hybrid control unit. I don't think that's going to be very functional in an even smaller SUV. It reduced cargo volume by 40 cubic feet overall. Dropping to only 60 cf is probably optimistic. I think that's why they didn't put a hybrid in the LX600 or LC300. You couldn't put a 3rd row in. Those are already smaller inside than a current 4Runner.

If we assume that they follow the playbook (not sure if that's a valid assumption) - the only functional family/overland option with decent cargo volume will be a non-hybrid turbo with only 275hp. I still think it'll be a meaningful improvement over the 280hp V6 because it'll have EDIT: about 30% more power at 2k rpms where we normally would want it and the 10AT will be a HUGE improvement in drivability and offer far lower gearing. And it'll do much much better at higher elevation. Those are wins all around. However, I think it'll still feel underpowered. And by being undersized, it'll only get about 22mpg. And we'll be here in 2 years wondering why Toyota won't put the ttv6 in that would return the same MPG but be a lot nicer to drive.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Seems all but a forgone conclusion at this point that it'll be either Turbo 4 or NA 4 hybrid and the turbo hybrid MAX is a coin toss. Toyota always seems to underpower the 4R and Tacoma (4th gen v8 aside).

All great points, but, I'm thinking what is driving Toyota of late is meeting CAFE and pleasing the green grabbers, not horsepower, cargo room or practical features.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Buckle up, more changes ahead...

Toyotas NEW President just SHOCKED the World with EV Reform Announcement... - YouTube

Toyota finally admits 'timing is right' for EV-first approach

In a press release Monday, Toyota announced it would implement several changes to transform the automaker into a mobility company.

First, Toyota will focus on electrification, claiming, “Toyota must create cars with energy security in mind and contribute to achieving a carbon-neutral society.”

 

[mscot]

Buckle up, more changes ahead...

Toyotas NEW President just SHOCKED the World with EV Reform Announcement... - YouTube

Toyota finally admits 'timing is right' for EV-first approach

New CEO is saying they're going to focus on Lexus and it will take 7 years before they are full electric. Who knows how long it will be before Toyota is there? I wouldn't worry about any immediate impacts.

 

[TheSpinDoctor]

It could be a test mule since it shares the TNGA-F platform, such as it may contain the upcoming 4Runner or LC drivetrain.

The competitors' cars are typically there for comparison testing.

That observation about competitors appears to be spot on.

According to this Feb. 13 article from Gear Patrol, Ford might be the carmaker (pun intended) that brought it over:

Ford May Build an Even Beefier Expedition Raptor, Report Says

That could explain why someone in Michigan appeared to be testing a J300 Land Cruiser.

A J300 GR Sport Toyota Land Cruiser was spotted on a truck full of test vehicles in America. Our best bet — given the Michigan plates and the presence of Jeep Wranglers and a BMW M4 — was that Ford was benchmarking it. Now, we may have a little more insight into why Ford may have wanted to benchmark a J300.

Ford Authority, citing anonymous sourcing, reports that Ford is considering building an even more off-road capable Expedition. It's not confirmed that it will be an Expedition Raptor, but calling the new SUV an Expedition Raptor has not been ruled out.

 

[mscot]

That would be ridiculous. Those things are huge land yachts.

 

[Baystate4Runner]

...Toyota always seems to underpower the 4R and Tacoma (4th gen v8 aside)....

That 4th gen V8 is no exception to underpowered Toyotas - they could have used a proper V8 like in the Land Cruiser.

 

[Jetboy]

That 4th gen V8 is no exception to underpowered Toyotas - they could have used a proper V8 like in the Land Cruiser.

It had the same v8 as the land cruiser at the time. And Toyota offered the OEM supercharger. With the supercharger it was the quickest production SUV ever at that time. Faster than the most powerful Porsche Cayenne in that era. In 2004 you could buy a 4Runner that had nearly 100 more hp than you can today.

Would it be so bad for Toyota to put the 345hp version of the V35A in the next 4Runner? I don't think the T24A is going to be enough engine based on driving it in a NX350. It's marginal in the NX. It is not enough for a 4Runner. The NA 2.5L with hybrid will be an absolute dog. If it's anything like the hybrid in the CUV versions, it'll be significantly slower and less powerful than the current 1GR. I really hope that that setup only makes it into the 2wd work truck Tacoma and not the 4R as a base engine.

 

[ddnc599]

Buckle up, more changes ahead...

Toyotas NEW President just SHOCKED the World with EV Reform Announcement... - YouTube

Toyota finally admits 'timing is right' for EV-first approach

yeah I dont think forcing the founding family out and Toyoda's death were organic. idc how paranoid that sounds.

 

[Carmaker1]

Trying to cram in several posts tonight. I'm no longer going to be commenting much on things Toyota, because while this environment here is reasonable, some others are not and I'm putting myself in hot water.

I am hearing that a number of vehicles will appear in this fashion.

Possibly on April 5th, the 2024 midsize pickup will debut and be on display on NYIAS? NYIAS is a guess, but the date is info I am posting here. Teasers and announcements will be over the coming month.

By June 1st or later in the summer, the 2024 MY Land Cruiser will be revealed. I won't mention TX and GX, which are also coming this year.

The Camry I once referred to as 2024.5, is definitely MY 2025 and matches what Crain's Automotive News reported back in 2020-21. I couldn't believe it then, but that old report was somewhat accurate. Just worded poorly, by saying "in 2025" and not in 2024 for 2025.

Production of the 2024 Camry as I mentioned elsewhere will begin around July and run through next winter in 2024. It will be superseded in February or March 2024 production by the next Camry, which I suspect will be revealed around November.

That's speculation, as the actual reveal is definitely late 2023, but no specific date. Launch is April 2024, before the 4Runner.

TMMK has been in the retooling process to make these changes ahead of tooling try out builds and pilot assembly. Out of respect for the individual who seems to be laughing at my expense, for me trusting a source with contradictory information on the GX, I will no longer discuss Lexus here for them nitpick.

Pilot builds of the next Camry are currently testing in Arizona and here in Michigan where it's 3AM right now. They were not built in Georgetown, KY, but the prototype plant in Michigan.

I think I've seen one on the freeway at night near Ann Arbor recently, but didn't have a camera moment. It was definitely part of a Toyota convoy, midsized, and special camo wrap only Lexus and Toyota use.

No sight of 4Runner yet, but that won't even be until maybe summer shots of prototypes.

Anyone claiming that the 4Runner was delayed because of response to the Bronco and Wrangler is deranged and uninformed. Anyone repeating their information, shouldn't feel bad, as you wouldn't know from Adam what to trust.

Much of the information on those vehicles was well known quite a while ago and the 4Runner is not being designed to compete with them. It will continue its mission statement and not deviate. The Land Cruiser will be a different flavor of that with the prestige nameplate and higher price.

The 4Runner is the Everest to the Land Cruiser's Bronco.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Trying to cram in several posts tonight. I'm no longer going to be commenting much on things Toyota, because while this environment here is reasonable, some others are not and I'm putting myself in hot water.

THANK YOU!, [MENTION=166416]Carmaker1[/MENTION], we always greatly appreciate your posts and insight.

Please just ignore those who are less knowledgeable than you and only attack others to build themselves up, they don't deserve one moment of your concern.

Please continue to visit us at this forum with new information as you are able, THANK YOU!

 

[balong48]

I'm no longer going to be commenting much on things Toyota, because while this environment here is reasonable, some others are not

Hmmmm I think I know one of those environments. Something along the lines of midsize truck planet (dot) com or something. Sad to see the way you’re treated there, but as you said some environments are just different. Had a feeling after a couple of responses there that you’d probably hang up your coat.

We really appreciate the insight you’ve brought here.

 

[Blackwatch]

Trying to cram in several posts tonight. I'm no longer going to be commenting much on things Toyota, because while this environment here is reasonable, some others are not and I'm putting myself in hot water.

I am hearing that a number of vehicles will appear in this fashion.

Possibly on April 5th, the 2024 midsize pickup will debut and be on display on NYIAS? NYIAS is a guess, but the date is info I am posting here. Teasers and announcements will be over the coming month.

By June 1st or later in the summer, the 2024 MY Land Cruiser will be revealed. I won't mention TX and GX, which are also coming this year.

The Camry I once referred to as 2024.5, is definitely MY 2025 and matches what Crain's Automotive News reported back in 2020-21. I couldn't believe it then, but that old report was somewhat accurate. Just worded poorly, by saying "in 2025" and not in 2024 for 2025.

Production of the 2024 Camry as I mentioned elsewhere will begin around July and run through next winter in 2024. It will be superseded in February or March 2024 production by the next Camry, which I suspect will be revealed around November.

That's speculation, as the actual reveal is definitely late 2023, but no specific date. Launch is April 2024, before the 4Runner.

TMMK has been in the retooling process to make these changes ahead of tooling try out builds and pilot assembly. Out of respect for the individual who seems to be laughing at my expense, for me trusting a source with contradictory information on the GX, I will no longer discuss Lexus here for them nitpick.

Pilot builds of the next Camry are currently testing in Arizona and here in Michigan where it's 3AM right now. They were not built in Georgetown, KY, but the prototype plant in Michigan.

I think I've seen one on the freeway at night near Ann Arbor recently, but didn't have a camera moment. It was definitely part of a Toyota convoy, midsized, and special camo wrap only Lexus and Toyota use.

No sight of 4Runner yet, but that won't even be until maybe summer shots of prototypes.

Anyone claiming that the 4Runner was delayed because of response to the Bronco and Wrangler is deranged and uninformed. Anyone repeating their information, shouldn't feel bad, as you wouldn't know from Adam what to trust.

Much of the information on those vehicles was well known quite a while ago and the 4Runner is not being designed to compete with them. It will continue its mission statement and not deviate. The Land Cruiser will be a different flavor of that with the prestige nameplate and higher price.

The 4Runner is the Everest to the Land Cruiser's Bronco.

Thank you for the great info. Any hints as to what the Land Cruiser will be? Engine options etc?