Yes, that's the 550h but it's a later release than the 350 and 500h. Not clear how delayed it will be, but I'm assuming at least 6 months.
Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen
- Thread starter peter78
- Start date
Yes, that's the 550h but it's a later release than the 350 and 500h. Not clear how delayed it will be, but I'm assuming at least 6 months.
I just can't wrap my head around if a PHEV is worth it, perhaps if you can get the full $7500 tax credit. Yes, all your puttering about can be switched over to largely gas free travel, but they really do command significant price premiums over standard hybrids or ICE vehicles... Plus the weight of dragging around dual propulsion systems...
I live in the rockies and this would be our roadtrip car. The extra HP and Torque is worth it, not just the electric only capabilities for around town.
Fair enough. I guess the 50e does give you a bit more get up and go versus the 40i version of that car. Where I'm puzzled is when the PHEV version of a vehicle actually has less performance than the base it's derived from. That's when it's really hard to justify.
I'm going to look at a CX90 for instance in the next month or so as an option to replace my Rover, but would never touch the PHEV since you give up the inline-6 and early reviews were pretty negative on the drivetrain going between gas and electric.
Jetboy
New member
For us the PHEV is an easy choice. Right now I'm living in Alaska and gas is around $5/gal. It doesn't take a lot of fuel savings to make it up. But also the biggest thing for me is just how convenient it is to not have to buy gas almost ever. Just have a full battery every morning and I'll hit a gas station maybe 5-10 times a year. It does depend on the price bump though.
The Rav4 Prime was a great value at MSRP, but never produced in enough numbers to be available so we never bought one. The last one I saw was $68k with dealer ADM. No F'n way I'd pay $68k for a rav4. That's a Model Y AND a 2 door bronco money. If a Grand Highlander Prime is $75k - same thing. I'll take a Model Y and keep my Tundra.
Ah, thanks!
I would never buy a PHEV in a mid-size or larger SUV that wasn't partnered with a 6 cylinder. Rav4 is the largest I would go with a 4cyl PHEV.
I've driven the X5 50e. It's very nice. If it had a bit more room in the back I would have already ordered one. Also, BMW's reliability ratings have shot up in recent years - though, there's some software gremlins in the new iDrive on the X5 that's another reason I'm waiting a bit longer.
I keep waiting to see where the TX is going to come in price wise but if Lexus doesn't have the configurator up by mid-September I'm pulling the trigger on the X5. I want to be out of my 4Runner by ski season. I may have to replace the brakes for the second time in 42k miles. WTAF. I'm just over this vehicle and Toyota isn't showing me anything with the new LC250 that makes me thing the next 4Runner will interest me.
I've driven the X5 50e. It's very nice. If it had a bit more room in the back I would have already ordered one. Also, BMW's reliability ratings have shot up in recent years - though, there's some software gremlins in the new iDrive on the X5 that's another reason I'm waiting a bit longer.
I keep waiting to see where the TX is going to come in price wise but if Lexus doesn't have the configurator up by mid-September I'm pulling the trigger on the X5. I want to be out of my 4Runner by ski season. I may have to replace the brakes for the second time in 42k miles. WTAF. I'm just over this vehicle and Toyota isn't showing me anything with the new LC250 that makes me thing the next 4Runner will interest me.
I need to take a look at the X5 and see if it feels "big" enough for us or not. I've heard the third row is strictly a child only option and pretty tight at that. I think I'd love an X7 but I'm pretty sure it's beyond my budget (originally didn't want to spend much more than $75K on a replacement for my Rover). I've never owned a BMW despite looking at them multiple times (and coming really close to getting an epic deal on a X3M in 2020). My wife killed that one though
.Toyota seems to be dragging its feet on pricing for all the new 2024s right now; no information on the Tacoma either which was revealed of course a few weeks before the GX and TX. It's strange to me that Grand Highlanders have been in dealers for at least a month though as these other vehicles don't even have pricing announced. Especially considering the TX is going to be built in the same factory in Indiana as the GH.
I'm skeptical on the 6th generation 4Runner now also after the new Land Cruiser reveal to be honest. There is a lot to potentially like on these new vehicles, but also a bunch of places where I think they may have missed the mark. We shall see.
There's no third row in the X5 anymore IIRC. Definitely not one in the PHEV.
There's no PHEV X7 and yeah it's another 15k over the X5 for the same 40i engine.
We only have one kid and a gram to haul around so we can get by with a 5 person SUV.
You apparently are correct despite most of the automotive sites indicating a third row is an option; it seems like the 3rd row was an option for awhile including in the very beginning of the 2023 model year, but currently BMW won't even let you order a X5 with one. I imagine it was so tiny and not frequently purchased which contributed to them finally killing it in the US (also perhaps to push sales towards the X7 where people would be much happier with the size).
We have two small kids and have had issues when a grand parent is around since you really cannot fit 5 people comfortably in a vehicle like a 4Runner (at least sans third row) when your kids are both in some sort of car seat or booster. The middle seat becomes truly horrible. We've also run into cases where we would have benefitted from having a third row with a need to move a 3rd (or 4th) kid around in a pinch.
I'm also getting sick and tired of using our 4Runner as our primary road trip vehicle (since we usually need the size versus our Rover) due to the horrid gas mileage.
3 row crossovers are just such a bunch of soul-less vehicles overall though unless you're spending big money (like the X7 or GLS). I'm driving a loaded out CX90 tomorrow and am curious to see what I think of it. I may have to look at a Q7 55 also even though I hate how they look.
The hybrid max GH sounds like it is good in a straight line but may be a bit of a pig once the road gets turny
.
TexasFunRunner
New member
I was following a brand new Kia Carnival the other day. I had never heard of one, SUV size with 3rd row, but has a sliding door.You apparently are correct despite most of the automotive sites indicating a third row is an option; it seems like the 3rd row was an option for awhile including in the very beginning of the 2023 model year, but currently BMW won't even let you order a X5 with one. I imagine it was so tiny and not frequently purchased which contributed to them finally killing it in the US (also perhaps to push sales towards the X7 where people would be much happier with the size).
We have two small kids and have had issues when a grand parent is around since you really cannot fit 5 people comfortably in a vehicle like a 4Runner (at least sans third row) when your kids are both in some sort of car seat or booster. The middle seat becomes truly horrible. We've also run into cases where we would have benefitted from having a third row with a need to move a 3rd (or 4th) kid around in a pinch.
I'm also getting sick and tired of using our 4Runner as our primary road trip vehicle (since we usually need the size versus our Rover) due to the horrid gas mileage.
3 row crossovers are just such a bunch of soul-less vehicles overall though unless you're spending big money (like the X7 or GLS). I'm driving a loaded out CX90 tomorrow and am curious to see what I think of it. I may have to look at a Q7 55 also even though I hate how they look.
The hybrid max GH sounds like it is good in a straight line but may be a bit of a pig once the road gets turny
2024 Kia Carnival | MPV - Pricing & Features | Kia
Last edited:
Hah, you see them around here some. It's probably the most SUV looking mini-van, amusingly marketed as a MPV (anyone remember the old Mazda?).
FWD only, so the butch looks aren't even backed up with AWD.
I'm starting to understand why so many people still drive Tahoes
.
TexasFunRunner
New member
Almost bought a new Mazda MPV a long time ago.Hah, you see them around here some. It's probably the most SUV looking mini-van, amusingly marketed as a MPV (anyone remember the old Mazda?).
FWD only, so the butch looks aren't even backed up with AWD.
I'm starting to understand why so many people still drive Tahoes
thatoneguy
New member
Have you considered 3-row minivans? I know the US has a wild stigma against them, but every time I get in a proper minivan, it makes me think that "3 row SUVs" are just a worse version of them. I don't recall being comfortable in the 3rd row of any SUV, nevermind crappy ingress/engress, but I'm 6'2" and the third row of a Sienna/Odyssey is a freakin palace to me.You apparently are correct despite most of the automotive sites indicating a third row is an option; it seems like the 3rd row was an option for awhile including in the very beginning of the 2023 model year, but currently BMW won't even let you order a X5 with one. I imagine it was so tiny and not frequently purchased which contributed to them finally killing it in the US (also perhaps to push sales towards the X7 where people would be much happier with the size).
We have two small kids and have had issues when a grand parent is around since you really cannot fit 5 people comfortably in a vehicle like a 4Runner (at least sans third row) when your kids are both in some sort of car seat or booster. The middle seat becomes truly horrible. We've also run into cases where we would have benefitted from having a third row with a need to move a 3rd (or 4th) kid around in a pinch.
I'm also getting sick and tired of using our 4Runner as our primary road trip vehicle (since we usually need the size versus our Rover) due to the horrid gas mileage.
3 row crossovers are just such a bunch of soul-less vehicles overall though unless you're spending big money (like the X7 or GLS). I'm driving a loaded out CX90 tomorrow and am curious to see what I think of it. I may have to look at a Q7 55 also even though I hate how they look.
The hybrid max GH sounds like it is good in a straight line but may be a bit of a pig once the road gets turny
You're assuming they only can have one car though (and for the record, I agree with you).
I still really like my 4Runner and don't plan on getting rid of it any time soon. I use the offroad capability periodically and do enjoy the ruggedness of it. I'm waiting to see how the 6th generation pans out before making any plans to replace it and have it locked into a 100K mile warranty till November 2025.
That being said, having a smaller vehicle as the second one in our household has pushed us into using the 4Runner in situations it's not great for (like 3000+ mile highway heavy road trips).
Ultimately I think nearly all decisions on vehicle ownership are going to be a series of compromises. Finding the closest vehicle(s) to your needs though is part of the fun.
My life was different when I bought my 4Runner than it is now. I used to go exploring fairly frequently. It made sense then but doesn't now.
However, the reliability of the platform has kept me interested enough to see if the new model will drive better than the 5th gen. It's nice never seeing a mechanic.
But after seeing the LC250... meh.
So, I'm mostly here for entertainment now.
Although, if the new GX had better MPG I would be considering it.
edit: Oh, the roll down rear window... that has been clutch for me since I do trips to the lumber yard every couple months for whatever new project I'm buildling. I'm going to be sad to let that go. I'll have to get a trailer or something.
Last edited:
I have actually thought about it. There are really only a handful of options left in the US though, and only two have AWD I believe available. AWD is a must for us as we travel heavily in winter for ski trips, often doing mileage on dicey roads in places like northern Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming and Utah. Our 4Runner does well at this but is lacking on modern systems/driver assist, comfort and mpg.
After owning a Jeep for 4+ years, I don't think I'd touch a Pacifica as I don't really trust Stellantis' products and long term reliability. This leaves the Sienna with the hybrid power train and CVT as mandatory in it.
I also love driving though (having owned a VW Golf R, Audi TT-S and Infiniti G37S Coupe before kids) and pretty much vowed to never purchase a vehicle with a CVT after driving one a few times in a rental car and despising it.
Fun to drive and 3rd row unfortunately don't line up much currently.
I probably realistically would be happier with 3 vehicles: an offroader, a practical 3 row, and something fun for use without a focus on cargo or seating (even something like an Audi RS3 would be incredible). Unfortunately that is not an option right now which naturally leaves some degree of compromise likely necessary.
TexasFunRunner
New member
When I used to follow the Bronco forum when it was being released, there were all sorts of crazy comparisons, Porsche 911, etc., for some it's just a new toy in the garage.
