Toyoooooda
New member
Your timeline doesn't seem to include Grand highlander.
Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen
- Thread starter peter78
- Start date
My insight is directly from Toyota/Lexus personnel in most cases, whether R&D center in Ann Arbor, HQ in Plano, or CALTY in Newport Beach. Plus I have a lot of connections, that may not always pan out, but when they do, it is helpful.
I also have access to industry databases, projections, and etc. Suppliers are another thing and networking reveals a lot of product planning from time to time at other automakers. I take advantage all and any resources available to me, but I cannot say the same for these guys on YouTube or writing contradiction laden news articles.
These other guys on YouTube frustrate the hell out of me, as they are BSing people and it's so annoying. Considering what I still do professionally, it is bad idea for me to go on YouTube and counteract their information on video/recording. None of us in such capacities really do that for good reason. If people cannot pick up on what we are saying on the low, then they can't be helped LOL.
For example
With Nissan recently, they unveiled a replacement for the 370Z. I saw that car as a shareholder, years ago. It is was a design representation then and not a drivable prototype yet. To my knowledge, they hadn't even called it a 400Z and for a year or so, I pretty much ignored this BS rumor mill about that name.
Yet, every single YouTuber doubled down on that fictious name, so as the Z Proto was making its debut, I addressed a Nissan contact in Ann Arbor and said I didn't understand why the public was calling it 400Z, did anything change internally and was this the new name now, per marketing? He explained, the 400Z name was utter BS and just tabloid fodder. Verbatim, he said that the vehicle in question was still called Nissan Z. NOT 400Z nor 300Z. Just Z, even if it was now powered by a twin turbo 3.0L V6 instead of 3.7L VQ37 in 370Z.
I never heard that "400Z" name at the shareholder presentation, which debuted the new design well before anyone else saw it. I just heard Z and new no different personally. Yet everyone around me online, seemed to believe otherwise.
So it was clear to me, I needed to find out where that rumor originated and kill it. Nissan officially declined to breach that topic, until the product was ready for launch in late 2021/early 2022.
My research found out that it was a synthesis of BS info from British Auto Car in 2018, chockfull of ERRORs and contradictions. Another one was a Canadian automotive site giving it more fuel, with taken out of context information in terms of Nissan filing trademarks for "Z", not necessarily 400Z. YouTubers saw that and screamed it to the heavens, creating an unwelcome cluster**** of misinformation.
The public bought anything to support 400Z, hook, line, and sinker no thanks to them. I made a hell of a lot of effort, to debunk that rumor. Unsuccessful and a waste of time. Quickly I found out, a lot of car bros are horribly incorrigible and double down on their own ignorance, even if presented with the facts. A good chunk are wise enough to listen.
Because I do not care to use YouTube as my mouthpiece and expose myself to termination/prosecution (giving out advance information/IP info), very easy for folks to dismiss anything I say and trust the next clown with a camera, yet have no professional credentials in journalism and amount to vloggers.
Of all of them, I had the most respect for Automotive Press, with his industry insight and highly educated perspective. He is now stooping to the same clickbait nonsense, that others are guilty of. I wouldn't trust him, because of they are merely regurgitating semi-public information or making their guesstimates, with weak nuances that miss important details.
TFL piss me off the most, being that they are terribly careless with their widespread reach and are only good at taking spy shots (spot vehicles not seen by anyone ese). Everything else from them is opinionated nonsense and fluff. I warned personally and of course, they tried to drown me out with BSing.
In conclusion, their insight in this case is weak and not well informed. They keep working off of old info and peddling it over and over. They need to quit and stop throwing stuff at the wall, focus on subjects that they can credibly report on. It is not a 2023 model and clearly you are way smarter than them, to realize that in various ways already.
I am saddened by what automotive journalism has turned into. Sorry for the long post, but I really need to explain the whole conundrum that is media today in the automotive segment and how they challenge the more accurate insight of those of us lurking in the shadows.
Some people hinted at the move to Mexico for awhile, but I admit I dismissed it as nothing and got my confirmation finally. You wisely touched on the amount of changes for 2022, foreshadowing another model year after this one.
Ooh, can't speculate about 2023. Just about anything can happen, as the appearance and changes are locked down, but they are probably so minimal, I won't know anything at all for months.
I understand your perspective, but this is the business world unfortunately. Satisfy the shareholders and dealers, not the customer. Often what just keeps happening and sucks. 6G 4Runner is in the vein of the current model, just as the Land Cruiser 300 was designed in the vein of the 80/100/200. Design wise, it is evolutionary. Have I seen it up close? No. Have I talked to a guy who has?? Yes, a clay modeler I work for the competition and polite banter, is limited to a degree regarding IP. You break that trust by asking too much or putting out on blast (ie YouTube), you scare folks away.
Not much is happening for 2023, as it was never supposed to an additional model year in the first place. Things are often done in twos at automakers. If something needs to last just 1 year, it will be special editions at best. For 2 years left, equipment updates or very small cosmetic stuff. For 3 years left? If feasible and ordered early enough, a visible refresh. For 4 years, a significant faceiift.
The next 4Runner is 2 1/2 years away. Updating it for MY 2023 is a colossal waste of money, because 16 months will not provide return on investment. The 2022 improvements, can at least run a good 2 1/2 years. As seen in Lexus GX, which will be redesigned in over 2 years as well.
That was supposed to be under 2023 Highlander, but it's something not really on my radar. I missed that bullet, as it's November 2022.
To be honest, I tend to forget about and ignore anything FWD related. My core focus here is body-on-frame vehicles migrating to TNGA-F and the source information I have, omitted a few upcoming models: GR86, Grand Highlander, BZ4x, and maybe one more, are not in these databases for me to copy and paste here. They are unnamed.
I work off of my own knowledge at that point and then have make a synthesis of all available information (GR86, BZ4x).
Recalling, I was the first and sole person publicly (outside Toyota), to give out the timeline for all of Toyota's 2022 model year vehicles, back in January 2020. That was a bit challenging, as I narrowly beat the leaking of that red/black chart and predicted it too. Unlike that chart, I already knew which unnamed vehicles were which, while the media didn't at all.
A lot of idiots (not on here) especially in the media, took the label "2022" to mean, 2022 model year 4Runner. Apparently their dumbasses missed the fact, other vehicles were listed by calendar year and season, therefore 2022 = 2023 model. As we all know now, it has fallen back into 2024.
Thanks, I appreciate it and thank you for spreading the good word.
Have any of you heard about the 2024 Lexus GX?
I knew I wasn't doubting myself, when it became clear that the USA folks were keeping mum extremely.
The 2024 GX, is going very niche. This is not going to be your mama's Lexus, as has been the case since December 2002.
This vehicle loses all sense of its curves and harkens back to the 1990 Prado, aka none other than a modern take on the 70-Series, but in a luxurious and high tech laden package.
This vehicle is being designed to compete with G550 and Defender 110 on the lower end of price range. The ultimate Lexus offroader. It is like Lexus hit reset and brought the 70-Series into the 21st century. The bad news? No V8 and no SFA like the J76. This migrates the GX to GA-F, but takes Lexus in a whole new direction.
Launch is December 2023, named GX 550. Allegedly a mild hybrid married to the V35A-FTS. Does this affect the 4Runner? Well considering how there is no 4.6L in the 4Runner, don't count on the TTV6.
One question I do have is, why wouldn't Toyota put the TX 500h and RX 500h V6 powertrain (8GR-FXS) in the 2024 4Runner? Surely it has been tuned for more torque in these crossover applications. I4T mated to hybrid is coming.
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bigbwb
Member
Good info Carmaker1 and glad to have you back and posting again! I see you over on the Lexus forums as well, kudos to staying involved.
The new GX intrigues me and cant wait to see what it brings! I am a long time 4runner owner so it would be a nice upgrade down the road! I am bummed the new 4R is being pushed out to 2024, my 2017 will be OLD by then!
I may consider the upcoming Sequoia for the time being.
The new GX intrigues me and cant wait to see what it brings! I am a long time 4runner owner so it would be a nice upgrade down the road! I am bummed the new 4R is being pushed out to 2024, my 2017 will be OLD by then!
I may consider the upcoming Sequoia for the time being.
Good question. Maybe an attempt to maintain differentiation between Toyota and Lexus?
Or maybe 4Runner will be positioned to be more of a back-to-basics, all-purpose vehicle and the TX/RX powertrain just doesn’t fit that cost profile?
Disclaimer: pure speculation on my part, which is probably as good as any of those random YouTubers.
I’m just looking forward to all these new choices over the next several years.
Wow, didn't realize you were over there too! I am trying to find every and any Toyota/Lexus forum, to spread this info around, so enough owners who are listening, know. (It's lowkey enough, without alerting Toyota directly.)
I was thrown, but I do remember hearing something about this awhile back, when most of the concepts kept surfacing. How Lexus wanted a dedicated offroader for once and not a body on frame lux minivan (no offense).
Until TX was confirmed, I wasn't certain how this would be managed. In the end, it made sense to leave the family duties below the $75k ceiling to the new TX and allow the GX to forge its own new path.
RXL was just not convincing as a 3-row, so a lot of people still buy a GX, because the LX is too expensive for them and want 3 rows from Lexus. Those people might go up to LX or to TX now, because GX is no longer going to targeting that old demographic. That is a vehicle, I will pay money for as a Bronco and Prado owner (in Africa only).
Unless subsidized, I cannot justify a G63 for myself (still not keen on LR D110).
I think you'll like the new Sequoia, especially since it solely sits at the top now. TRD Pro Sequoia will make a return.
Haha, which one? The current 70-Series or the GXOR? If Toyota manages to offer SFA and SRA on GA-F for the GX, that would be wild, but I haven't heard anything like that.
Good question. Maybe an attempt to maintain differentiation between Toyota and Lexus?
Or maybe 4Runner will be positioned to be more of a back-to-basics, all-purpose vehicle and the TX/RX powertrain just doesn’t fit that cost profile?
Disclaimer: pure speculation on my part, which is probably as good as any of those random YouTubers.
I’m just looking forward to all these new choices over the next several years.
Oh no of course, I am not saying no one else is allowed speculate, but I hate it when that speculation is put out with such a broad reach without a disclaimer and taken as fact.
I have great respect for Kirk and Automotive Press at least, but sometimes folks need to take a pause and not resort to clickbait. I feel those two are at least better than that, unlike the rest.
You of course, are just sharing your honest perspective and it's great to have open discussion on this. The only bad part is, we have to wait another 2 1/2 years.
As you can see, Toyota is unveiling the Tundra 3 1/2 to 4 months before it goes on sale in January. If 4Runner is revealed in late 2023, it can hit showrooms in spring 2024. Or, they could easily pull a Highlander and reveal it early at Chicago 2023 or New York 2023 as a prototype (final design), then on sale in 2024.
You won't see a lick of it before that unfortunately. From what I recall, a member on here with VERY deep insight, told me in 2019, that 6th generation 4Runner is "true to form" and he was a lead contributor on future products. Still is, but we are not in contact anymore.
The 4Runner was still being designed back then, but has been done 2020 and is very aggressive looking per the clay modeler who worked on it in 2019-early 2020.
I think the offroader niche angle is being doubled down on by Toyota for GA-F. With cars, they are trying to be sportier. With trucks, they are heavily embracing offroading culture and leaving mainstream duties, to other products like Highlander/Grand Highlander.
Akio Toyoda keeps paying visits to his Texas ranch outside of Dallas, to review certain products in secret. (bought with company funds lol)
I'm hoping we'll start to see spy photos at some point in '22 or '23...that's when we'll know we're close(r) to the release.
I currently have a '21 Venza hybrid. Was reluctant to go from the tried-and-true V6 in the 4Runner, but I'm looking forward to the hybrid system in the next 4Runner. I'm probably not the typical 4Runner shopper, though (or at least typical for this forum).
Given where you've mentioned the GX is headed, and with the Highlander, Grand Highlander, and Sequoia covering the broader 3-row market, I could see Toyota sticking with a more Bronco or Wrangler-like positioning for the 4Runner.
Thinking back to the 5th gen, it initially seemed to be an attempt to re-position to be a more utilitarian offering -- I remember the bare-bones 4-cylinder model, and even the Limited had a mast antenna and non-locking fuel door that caused some stir when the first spy photos were captured.
I'm curious as to what the Grand Highlander will be -- I shudder to think it's another half-baked gap-filler like the RX-L. Maybe it'll be the Toyota parallel to the Lexus TX?
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Especially if they "Lexus" it up.....
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cl..._cb12e28787fa8ef9192f2a3b79648fcb895d2abb.jpg
Tryin2decide
Junior Member
Interesting info.....I think I must be the only one that actually likes the lift up gate with tire underneath, and a quiet non-detachable roof....and the rear retractable window.
....and can’t stand the way the Lexus models look with the humongous grills.
no offense.
....and can’t stand the way the Lexus models look with the humongous grills.
no offense.
Colorado buff
New member
You are not alone
Annolino122
New member
Another member quoted your posts in my reply to him. You've definitely put a few pieces of the puzzle together with your predictions! I love seeing these kinds of posts because it makes me happy to see the excitement band speculation!
I just hope I'm not on the wrong entity's radar...:spy: (LOL)
BIGpharma
New member
CelticRunner
Member
Agreed. Would love it for the gas mileage but I bought a T4R for its longevity (among other things). Same reason I’m not excited about news of a turbo
lol
Surely you cannot be that gullible. Those guys are total idiots and know literally nothing about anything. They just lie to hear themselves talk like they know something.
RPDBluemoon
New member
Hi guys, new user here. I was going to try to PM someone because I am interested in the upcoming 6th and have been lurking here for awhile now because I am very interested in the 6th Gen 4Runner. I saw that video on YouTube and thought it was interesting so it's good to see the info getting refuted.
I have a profound respect for you guys that still use car forums, its very old and dated but still has standed the test of time, just recently purchased special edition vehicle because of the help from car forums.
My other car is a Scion tC and I want to trade it in for a 4Runner, sometime next year or in 2023. So I have been scoping this place out for any solid info as time goes on. I have slowly become a Toyota Fanboy because they make the best daily drivers imo.
So my first question is about the 2024 rumor. So does that mean 2024 Model Year or 2024 year? Meaning In 2024 it will be redesigned or it will be the 2024 model year (meaning in Q4 2023 the next gen will go on sale). Will the problem with COVID era shortages possibly delay things? The shortage is only getting worse and not improving and demand is at an all time high. I feel like it is impossible to make solid plans because everything has been so unpredictable lately, so delays are inevitable
Also are there any details about the engine? The 4 cylinder turbo does have good specs as it has 300 ftlbs of torque. Not sure how displacement will affect that. I guess its similar to the Tundra with the V8 vs TTV6. The engine is in the Lexus NX but it seems that there is an embargo on the review, so I can't find any videos of the engine and its performance.
The biggest deciding factor for me honestly is the styling of the next gen, if the 5th stay around for a little longer, I'll have the pleasure of choosing which one I like better
As for the first video posted. I actually saw it and was disappointed because I don't like the renderings. Maybe biased but I really like the 5th gen 4runner the style is perfect so I cant wait to see how it'll look at the end of its life cycle. With the new all LED lights and Push to Start its a compelling package!
I have a profound respect for you guys that still use car forums, its very old and dated but still has standed the test of time, just recently purchased special edition vehicle because of the help from car forums.
My other car is a Scion tC and I want to trade it in for a 4Runner, sometime next year or in 2023. So I have been scoping this place out for any solid info as time goes on. I have slowly become a Toyota Fanboy because they make the best daily drivers imo.
So my first question is about the 2024 rumor. So does that mean 2024 Model Year or 2024 year? Meaning In 2024 it will be redesigned or it will be the 2024 model year (meaning in Q4 2023 the next gen will go on sale). Will the problem with COVID era shortages possibly delay things? The shortage is only getting worse and not improving and demand is at an all time high. I feel like it is impossible to make solid plans because everything has been so unpredictable lately, so delays are inevitable
Also are there any details about the engine? The 4 cylinder turbo does have good specs as it has 300 ftlbs of torque. Not sure how displacement will affect that. I guess its similar to the Tundra with the V8 vs TTV6. The engine is in the Lexus NX but it seems that there is an embargo on the review, so I can't find any videos of the engine and its performance.
The biggest deciding factor for me honestly is the styling of the next gen, if the 5th stay around for a little longer, I'll have the pleasure of choosing which one I like better
As for the first video posted. I actually saw it and was disappointed because I don't like the renderings. Maybe biased but I really like the 5th gen 4runner the style is perfect so I cant wait to see how it'll look at the end of its life cycle. With the new all LED lights and Push to Start its a compelling package!
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