Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[mscot]

eh, I still might buy it. Question is, do I risk buying the first model year?

 

[Jetboy]

Okay - Ford released the new Ranger today. Base is 270hp, most models come with optional 315hp turbo 6, and Ranger Raptor is 405hp turbo 6, long travel, fox live valve, and 33's. Your move Toyota. Hope the new Taco has a TTv6 or it'll be WAY behind in power.

 

[Blackwatch]

Okay - Ford released the new Ranger today. Base is 270hp, most models come with optional 315hp turbo 6, and Ranger Raptor is 405hp turbo 6, long travel, fox live valve, and 33's. Your move Toyota. Hope the new Taco has a TTv6 or it'll be WAY behind in power.

And the Tacoma just got delayed 2 years...

 

[bigbwb]

And the Tacoma just got delayed 2 years...

Ha! So true. I can almost bet Toyota will not compete with the ranger raptor, it’s way too conservative. I bet their top engine is the 2.4L turbo hybrid… 360 ish hp and 400+tq. I’ve given up on them being competitive these days. Sad really.

 

[Jetboy]

Ha! So true. I can almost bet Toyota will not compete with the ranger raptor, it’s way too conservative. I bet their top engine is the 2.4L turbo hybrid… 360 ish hp and 400+tq. I’ve given up on them being competitive these days. Sad really.

You're more optimistic than me. I think the hybrid will top out at about 315hp. It's only 40hp in the tundra. And the 2.4L max output so far is only 275hp. Even in the Lexus models.
And supposedly that iforce max is only in TRD pro. Everything else is less.


What if the base engine is the na2.5 hybrid with 230hp. Ugh.

 

[Blackwatch]

You're more optimistic than me. I think the hybrid will top out at about 315hp. It's only 40hp in the tundra. And the 2.4L max output so far is only 275hp. Even in the Lexus models.
And supposedly that iforce max is only in TRD pro. Everything else is less.


What if the base engine is the na2.5 hybrid with 230hp. Ugh.

I can't see Toyota lowering the numbers on the 2.4 turbo hybrid and selling a Crown on the same lot with 10% more power. The hybrid system will be different though with the electric motor in the same place as the Tundra so that might mean more or less power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkKZvAtMlo&t=513s

Lexus released a couple of images of the GX today. The windshield seems a lot more vertical and the hood is pretty aggressive. Nice color as well. But if you look at the rear window wiper they have cheeped out and put it down on the glass instead of being tucked up high.

 

[TheSpinDoctor]

Not quite the new 4Runner, but these “all-new Lexus GX” images have appeared on Lexus’ Instagram and made their way to Reddit.

 

[Jetboy]

I can't see Toyota lowering the numbers on the 2.4 turbo hybrid and selling a Crown on the same lot with 10% more power. The hybrid system will be different though with the electric motor in the same place as the Tundra so that might mean more or less power.

Lexus ANNOUNCES the all-new 2024 GX - This BLEW me away... - YouTube

Lexus released a couple of images of the GX today. The windshield seems a lot more vertical and the hood is pretty aggressive. Nice color as well. But if you look at the rear window wiper they have cheeped out and put it down on the glass instead of being tucked up high.

I'm not sure the electric drive system in the IForce Max is capable of adding that much power. I haven't seen any specs on what the actual internal motor is, so I don't know. If it was capable of putting out more power, why wouldn't it already be doing that in the Tundra/Sequoia?

The hybrid max FWD models have two electric motors that are both around 80hp (79 front and 81 rear). Those combine with the 264 hp turbo 4 to net 340hp. The math doesn't add up, so I'm not sure how it all fits together when you mash the skinny pedal or why it's not more like 425hp. My best guess is that the battery isn't capable of discharging at a 120kw (160hp), so it's battery limited. But I don't know. That's something Toyota would have to tell us.

Whatever the case - it does seem like Toyota is pulling around 75hp of incremental power from its hybrid max with the smaller battery pack. So maybe it's possible we could see mid 300's. I'm just not sure why that wouldn't already have been done in the tundra if it could be done.

Assuming a roughly 2kwh battery, you'd need something like 60C discharge rate to see 120kw of power. Not impossible, but pretty aggressive use of a battery pack without liquid cooling. And assuming you only use around 50% of the capacity and 100% efficiency, you'd burn through the entire available capacity in 30 seconds. In the real world - it would be good for one trip down the quarter mile and be exhausted. The idea of blasting through deep sand with deep power reserves on tap is not realistic.

I don't see how this is going to do much of anything useful in an offroad truck other than impress journalists when they race it side by side on an asphalt strip. It either needs a bigger battery, the extra ability to do stuff like EV drive mode or use as an ultra rock crawl low speed drive system, use as a camp generator like the powerboost Ford, or something actually useful beyond just a quicker quarter mile or it would probably be better off without the hybrid. I suspect if it's the same system as the Tundra - most of us who actually plan to spend a lot of time offroad are going to buy whatever model comes without the hybrid. The weight can't be justified by the small benefit.

Or we'll go buy a Ranger with 400hp all day long (until it breaks down).

Maybe we'll all be caught by surprise and Toyota will drop a turbo v6 hybrid in the TRD Pro with 450hp.



As far as the GX, hard to see much so far. Hood and fender to me looks a lot like the LR Defender to the point that if I didn't know what it was, I would have said it was a Defender pic. I like how flat it is. That's a really good sign that the belt line is low and it will have tall windows and good outward visibility. Front wipers are pretty normal looking - so it must have a reasonable size windshield, not a FJ Cruiser situation hopefully.

I agree that it's disappointing to see the rear wiper drop to the bottom. Much nicer to have it tucked up and protected at the top. IMO it's also a better design on the 3rd gen 4Runner to have it mounted on the door rather than window if you're going to put it at the bottom so it lifts off the glass and doesn't trap rocks and dirt in there to then abrade the window when you use it. Obviously means the window doesn't roll down. Still possible that it's a flip up window. The small hook on the bottom of the wiper arm base suggest that it is a handle for lifting up the rear glass. So that might be a good sign that at least the glass opens like the current one.

Styling does not say G wagon to me. It says Defender. It also doesn't say modern LC70 to me, but it has some hints of XJ700 in some ways.

 

[Bmnorm2]

The 2024 Toyota Tacoma Leaks Show Off A Gnarly New Tacoma

New Tacoma will have a version of the V6 turbo hybrid from Tundra/Sequoia.

In my mind this makes it likely the 4Runner will too. Won’t know till it’s announced, but it’s fun to speculate!

If it has to be a turbo hybrid, I’d prefer the V6 over I4.

 

[Jetboy]

The 2024 Toyota Tacoma Leaks Show Off A Gnarly New Tacoma

New Tacoma will have a version of the V6 turbo hybrid from Tundra/Sequoia.

In my mind this makes it likely the 4Runner will too. Won’t know till it’s announced, but it’s fun to speculate!

If it has to be a turbo hybrid, I’d prefer the V6 over I4.

I would put zero faith in Jalopnik accuracy. The assumption by the author that Iforce Max = TTV6 hybrid is a pretty good indication that Jose doesn't know much about the Tacoma. Par for the course at Jalopnik. Toyota hasn't said anything either way, but the best info from credible sources is that it will be a turbo4 hybrid and that will be the top engine and only available in the TRD Pro.

We'll see in a few days. I wouldn't count on a turbo 6. I hope it's an option. Just wouldn't expect it. That would be like Toyota putting a 5.7v8 in a Tacoma - not in our wildest dreams would Toyota do it.

 

[AZ Craig]

As far as the GX, hard to see much so far. Hood and fender to me looks a lot like the LR Defender to the point that if I didn't know what it was, I would have said it was a Defender pic. I like how flat it is. That's a really good sign that the belt line is low and it will have tall windows and good outward visibility. Front wipers are pretty normal looking - so it must have a reasonable size windshield, not a FJ Cruiser situation hopefully.

I agree that it's disappointing to see the rear wiper drop to the bottom. Much nicer to have it tucked up and protected at the top. IMO it's also a better design on the 3rd gen 4Runner to have it mounted on the door rather than window if you're going to put it at the bottom so it lifts off the glass and doesn't trap rocks and dirt in there to then abrade the window when you use it. Obviously means the window doesn't roll down. Still possible that it's a flip up window. The small hook on the bottom of the wiper arm base suggest that it is a handle for lifting up the rear glass. So that might be a good sign that at least the glass opens like the current one.

Styling does not say G wagon to me. It says Defender. It also doesn't say modern LC70 to me, but it has some hints of XJ700 in some ways.

Agree about the similarities to a Defender styling-wise and not a bad thing in my opinion (I personally love how most Rovers look though ). I didn't see this coming as I had assumed the next GX would be more closely related to the upcoming 4Runner while it seems like they are breaking it off to go more with the Sequoia/Tundra at this point.

I'm definitely interested in learning more about this and the new TX though as I'm already starting to think about replacing my Rover next year with something a bit bigger. Owning an English vehicle out of warranty sounds like a terrifying prospect. I had thought about a Defender for awhile, but a nicely equiped 110 is pushing $80K now since Rover's prices have gone up a ton the last 3 years (like everyone else).

I'd maybe be able to justify that sort of money on a Lexus though (as I know it will have way better longevity and more affordable service).

 

[KimchiJae]

The new GX teasers look promising. Unfortunately it'll still have that massive grille but outside of that it looks to be a much more aggressive design than the current GX.

I do want to add a tidbit that I had just learned the V35 in the Tundra comes in 3 options. The standalone gas motor in two different tunes (348hp and 389) and then the 437hp hybrid max. I don't think it's unreasonable that Toyota gives the GX the 348hp flavor of the V35. I'll be really disappointed if it only comes wit an inline4!

Best guesses as to what IGK 342 means on the license plate? Maybe a horsepower figure?

 

[Jetboy]

I'd bet the SR version of the V35A is the same engine with a different tune. SR torque is 405 at 2000 rpm and the SR5 is 479 at 2400 RPM. That's what Toyota did with the v6 in the Lexus IS to have a IS300 and IS350. Same engine, they just artificially handicapped the lower power model to make it crappier. I don't love that marketing choice of making something artificially worse to justify a lower price. Overlay of the two engines (same engine with different ECUs) from the IS - not my work, but you get the idea:

 

[KimchiJae]

I agree. Definitely just a different tune. I don't mind it be artificial worse, the difference is only ~40hp. Even the detuned V6 would be a massive improvement compared to the 4.6L V8. Especially when 405 ft lbs of torque hits at 2000rpm compared to the V8's 329 lb fit at 3500rpm

 

[mscot]

Are there any decent Lexus forums that I could find discussion on the TX and GX?

 

[Carmaker1]

Are there any decent Lexus forums that I could find discussion on the TX and GX?

I would recommend Lexus Enthusiast (1)(2), even if things are a bit different for me over there.

Like I have (to a much lesser degree), they actually know a good deal about both vehicles and have seen both vehicles inside-out, not to mention are a friend of CEO Koji Sato himself. I used to post there and many of them are very intelligent in terms of discussion. They keep discussion on track very well and hold the keys to future insight on things Toyota.

And maybe Club Lexus 1 , 2 where I started a thread on it in September 2021, when GX 550 was filed for trademark by Toyota Motor Company at the USPTO.

 

[mscot]

If the GX and the TX are both coming out this year (for 2024), I may have a conundrum.
How much bigger is the TX going to be than the GX? How much better will the TX drive being a unibody.

 

[Bmnorm2]

I would put zero faith in Jalopnik accuracy. The assumption by the author that Iforce Max = TTV6 hybrid is a pretty good indication that Jose doesn't know much about the Tacoma. Par for the course at Jalopnik. Toyota hasn't said anything either way, but the best info from credible sources is that it will be a turbo4 hybrid and that will be the top engine and only available in the TRD Pro.

We'll see in a few days. I wouldn't count on a turbo 6. I hope it's an option. Just wouldn't expect it. That would be like Toyota putting a 5.7v8 in a Tacoma - not in our wildest dreams would Toyota do it.

Haha no doubt man, Jalopnik is a shit show. Fair points, but turbo design does allow for different power options allowing it to fulfill multiple power levels. Hence, the turbo 6 could replace both 5.7 V8 and the 4.6/4.7 V8, which the latter was in the 4Runner. With the V8 obsoleted, it’s not such a stretch that they would use the v6 in Tacoma/4Runner to increase volume.

Is there an i4 turbo drivetrain from Toyota in longitudinal config?

Obviously I have no idea what they will do and wouldn’t put any money on it, but we’ll know soon enough!

 

[Carmaker1]

I feel like I know a lot more about the GX than the 4Runner, thanks to a Lexus guy who had been shown the vehicle in February 2021 and passed onto me what he had been shown in good detail in September 2021.

This is why I have discussed it at all the last 2 years, because without that guy I wouldn't even know much about it. I thank him, even though he never acknowledged further questions I asked.

The GX from my knowledge does not have a NA V6 nor Hybrid V6. It is just the GX 550 and maybe GX 550h, which shares the i-Force Max hybrid I4T with lesser Toyotas in the 4Runner and Tacoma.

I've heard too many inconsistent narratives on the 2024.5 Land Cruiser, between V35A-FTS, T24A-FTS i-Force Max, and T24A-FTS alone, to just claim one or the other. I need firsthand knowledge, to know and trust anything else going forward. Firsthand knowledge, means seeing the vehicle myself and that's not happening.

So:

2024 GX 550 is V35A-FTS non-hybrid in a different tune against LX 600 at 409 hp; 479 lb-ft. Already trademarked since September 2021 at USPTO.

GX 550h = 2.4T I4 T24A-FTS, aka known as i-Force Max I4 at Toyota (brand) on 2024 Tacoma. It's already trademarked in Asia.

LX 700h = V35A-FTS TTV6 hybrid. Already trademarked.

There is no Turbo V6 hybrid GX coming, unless it is called GX 600h or GX 650h. Nor is there a NA V6. Neither of those have been trademarked, meaning they will not be available at launch for MY 2024.

On a side note: I went back temporarily to the hub for all things Lexus news at Lex Enthusiast to defend myself and unfortunately, it just seemed the narrative there was to somewhat paint me as someone who ripped off information on the future USA Land Cruiser and Mirai backstory from an administrator/T4R-ORG user PM to me who didn't even ask me to keep the intel private back in 2019.

And then brought up my mishap again 2 days ago as a joke, which easily painted me as a clueless blowhard (to their users), who deliberately misled T4R.org and Lexus Enthusiast users to believe this official TMC rendering was the 2024 GX and I doubled down on it somehow without setting the record straight. I didn't do that. Last summer, I earnestly trusted someone credible (6G 4Runner source) who I showed these (attached) images to privately and he said it was a body on frame Lexus for certain.

The credible source inadvertently gave me wrong information, where I'm not going to be able to challenge their claim, if I hadn't been shown the vehicle myself!

Once I found out otherwise here last July, via PM, due to admins at that forum being annoyed., I quickly corrected myself publicly. I made sure I told everyone here and anyone else I said the wrong thing to anywhere online.

I didn't want anyone interested in a new 4Runner or GX to get a bad impression, from misinformation. Unlike Automotive Press or some vloggers, I'm not going to pretend I didn't make a gaffe when I did.

I had no choice, but defend myself there on Tuesday after a 3 year absence.

I have never held it against anyone, publicly releasing shared industry info I sent by email or PM, if I didn't beg them to keep it quiet, but it's whatever.

I wish them very well as a friend of CEO Koji Sato, but I need to left out of any criticisms going forward if I've made any retractions well ahead of model introduction's. Making me into an inside joke (in my opinion) over honest mistakes I actually admit to, is ridiculous.

There's no way from Adam I would've known the silhouette rendering was the unibody TX, if someone very credible derailed my correct observation and implied it wasn't unibody.

Good forum I recommend for things Lexus, but not for me, if there's a management grudge of sorts, that just won't be left alone. My 6G 4R source has been right on a lot of things Toyota, but wrong on GX design, possibly wrong on Mexico factory assembly for 4R (again possibly), and maybe even half-wrong about 300-Series which I know is Prado-based 100%.

I mean well by keeping people informed, when I noticed a void in news coverage of future Japanese developments for the Anglophone world a decade ago. I'm not a journalist nor a professional commentator due to my job barring that, but I moonlight as one in my free time, to marry together and publicize hidden insight, past, present, and future.

I'm going in again for new updates on the 6th generation 4Runner to my source, hopefully he hasn't discovered my posts here and ghost me, like two other Toyota contacts have already (a la David Chao's likely dilemma).

(I don't like asking other industry people invasive questions, when it forces me to share my own Ford insight in exchange.)

I'm worried 4Runner been delayed for the 4th time to MY 2026, since my info on July 2024 Job 1 could be stale (Summer 2022). It's a hunch because of Land Cruiser Prado delays, not confirmed yet. Otherwise, it should be revealed next winter or early spring hopefully.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I think the new GX photos look great, I'm personally shocked that conservative Toyota/Lexus have gone so aggressive in styling.

I think this bodes well for the Land Cruiser and 4Runner, all three get aggressive styling, all based or shared with the new Land Cruiser Prado (which may be renamed the Land Cruiser 250 per the Gear Patrol article).

Potentially, to maximize reuse of design, perhaps you see such aggressive wheel arches on the GX so both the Land Cruiser and 4Runner can reuse the underlying design structure and attachment points with only a simple exterior reskin required.

From the bits and pieces of speculation, articles and insider whispers to date, we can see all three are shaping up to have aggressive styling, similar wheelbase and exterior dimensions, so with different sheet metal and drivetrain tweeks, we get:

Lexus GX - Luxury off-road image
Land Cruiser - Retro off-road capability
4Runner - city hauler and off-road capability​

I wonder if we are looking at a six month cadence, this puts the most expensive to supposedly least expensive models in release order. Of course, this would put them so close together people could say "I'll just wait for the the less expensive model", but maybe that's part of the plan:

Lexus GX - May 2023 teased, Fall 2023 release (???)
Land Cruiser - teased fall 2023, released Spring 2024 (???)
4Runner - teased Spring 2023, released Fall 2024 (???)​

Here are a few highlights from the Gear Patrol article

The 2024 Lexus GX should be similar in size
Best Car Web in Japan reported in November that the new GX will keep the same wheelbase and exterior dimensions as the current model and offer two-row and three-row variants. One change Lexus may make is to rein in the GX's front overhang a bit to improve its off-road approach angle.

The Lexus GX may arrive in America with a Toyota Land Cruiser sibling
The Lexus GX is based on a smaller, cheaper version of the Land Cruiser, the Land Cruiser Prado (which may be renamed the Land Cruiser 250). Toyota has not confirmed anything yet. But according to a report, the next Land Cruiser may be a Toyota-badged version of the GX. And it may arrive in America for the 2024 model year.