gomiami
Member
Except for the door design, I like it. Those grooves in the doors would be a dirt collector.
Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen
- Thread starter peter78
- Start date
Except for the door design, I like it. Those grooves in the doors would be a dirt collector.
Yeah, I dug that render also. It kind of feels like an incremental update of the post refresh 5th gen merged with the 2024 Tacoma. I still think the post refresh 5th gen is a good looking truck (albeit, perhaps a bit dated now given the 10 year run on the market since 2014).
balong48
New member
Apparently a lot of TNGA redesigns were designed purposely to be an evolution of old design, rather than new. Carmaker1 pointed this out somewhere and I just can't remember where.
I'm not surprised at the Taco mashup, given Carmaker1 has said it'll be heavily based on the Tacoma, more than ever before, for this upcoming generation.
5th gen definitely still looks good, but man is it long in the tooth. At least 2020+ is at least a decent upgrade technology wise from the earlier 5th gens. The 2020+ MYs are the first where I thought going from 5th gen to 5th gen could seem like a decent upgrade.(edit: Which based on your signature, you seem to have agreed! lol) Powertrain however, yikes. That hasn't changed.
Yeah, from picking up my first 4Runner in March 2017 (a 2016 leftover demo vehicle with about 1000 miles on it that had never been titled), I periodically took a look at TRD Pros since I always dug the exclusive colors and unique elements for a manufacturer build. I actually felt like quite a few elements of my 2016 4Runner were more primitive than my 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon which is saying a lot. When they announced army green for the 2020 along with the safety system and interior/infotainment upgrades, I was pretty much sold on getting one. The JBL stereo was a nice pickup also as the stock stereo in these vehicles sounded like complete ass in my opinion. My wife also absolutely despised not having automatic headlights, something we had in vehicles going back to 2004 at least.
Having blind spot monitoring and the LED headlights would have been a nice touch given the additional incremental changes in 2021/20222, but I can live without them.
I think the 4Runner may have the most ancient powertrain of any vehicle sold in the US right now though. I cannot even think of something else without a 6 speed transmission.
gomiami
Member
Just my complete biased opinion but, in a few years when the only powertrains available will be hybrid/electric/turbo types, the ancient 4.0/5AT may get some retroactive love.
When those 6th gen turbos fail at the 100,000 mile mark and the entire engine needs to be lifted to service them, ancient may no longer be viewed as a bad thing.
MAST4R
New member
Ain't both of these statements true! A major reason for me to buy in 2018 was specifically the fear of a newer 4R coming out (sounds funny now, right?). I wanted "true and tried" for my solo off-the-beaten path explorations.
Now, I am kinda getting tired of the mountain "performance" of this lethargic powertrain. But, OTOH, I definitely do not want a difficult to service vehicle.
So if the new Tacoma requires pulling the cab to access the turbo...my son's dream of getting the 4R in 2-3 years may never come to pass!
There was some blurb about serviceability being a big focus on the Tacoma when it went to L4 turbo. The cab doesn't have to be pulled off to get to V6 TT turbos on Tundra, either. The pic going around the internet was due to special request of the engineers investigating a problem so they could get a better look. When a new warranty problem is being investigated on a new product, it isn't uncommon to go beyond just repairing the problem. Vehicles will get held longer so evaluation equipment is added or even bought back so that the manufacturer can do a super deep dive if the root cause is difficult to figure out.
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thatoneguy
New member
They might, but they don't have to. It is a scalable platform. I would like it if the upcoming 4Runner had a shorter wheelbase and length, or at least length only, than the Land Cruiser 250 to differentiate itself as more offroad oriented. The new 4Runner can't just be an exact copy of the LC250 that says "4Runner", that would be too much vehicle portfolio overlap. Going smaller and letting it be a little cheaper is what seems to make sense. That or start putting removable panels on it, and try to get in on the already saturated Bronco/Wrangler market. I hope it stays fixed roof.
thatoneguy
New member
I do agree that the 4.0L N/A port-injected V6 and the 5-speed automatic are stone-age, and I've wondered if it's the oldest powertrain on sale myself. I can't think of another 5-speed automatic sold here.
Naturally aspirated is getting ever less available, but it's not totally gone yet. The Nissan Frontier is soldiering on with an N/A V6 for the foreseeable future, Honda just re-engineered its N/A V6 for the Pilot (and I assume future Ridgeline/Passport) to get through at least 2030, you can still get a ho-hum 3.3L(?) N/A V6 in the cheapest F-150's.
I do trust that Toyota tested this new 2.4L turbo hybrid powertrain properly. They're going to be putting it in over a million 4x4 vehicles per year worldwide pretty soon. They'd be crazy to have half-assed its development, knowing how much is on the line with it. It's going in a Land Cruiser, and I don't think they want the title of "first unreliable land cruiser engine".
That said, matching the 4.0L/5AT reliability is pretty much the best case possible. Exceeding it would require some serious overbuilding of the powertrain.
The 4.0L has pulled great service, but times have improved, and manufacturers know how to pull better than a rated 17mpg combined when dishing out all of 280 lb ft of torque at a lofty RPM. It's easy to see why they went turbo and hybrid. This new engine in the 4Runner/Tacoma will definitely be rated well into the 20's on combined MPG, and it makes almost 200 lb-ft MORE torque... almost 3000RPM earlier. For everyone who can't stand how slow their big-engined 4Runner is... that new motor will take care of that if they want to partake.
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Yeah, I agree with you. I haven't been watching it closely, but I've heard that FJ Cruisers are actually appreciating in value currently with many selling over $30K used (I've heard Trail Teams can go for over $40K). Probably the same effect quite frankly (and they are pretty scarce these days in good shape).
thatoneguy
New member
FJ Cruisers have been appreciating in value since 1-2 years after they were discontinued. My uncle has owned one for eight years and it has always been worth more than he paid.
The fact that 5th gens have such high resale value despite spitting out another 150,000 of new supply ever year leads me to believe they are REALLY going to hold value once they finally produce the last one. I wouldn't be surprised if I trade in my 2023 ORP 5-7 years from now with a value still in the high 30s or even into the 40s.
Honestly, I think a lot of 4Runner owners simply don't have that many comparison points to realize just how much of a dog the vehicle is. My 2012 Wrangler wasn't wonderful either, but it had even worse aerodynamics and the Pentastar 3.6L V6 was not a wonderful engine either in my opinion.
The 1GFE V6 doesn't have a great power band which doesn't help anything, especially with the 5 speed transmission. It's probably not as notable if you live in a flat place, but for someone living out west who does a lot of mountain driving, climbing while maintaining western highway speed (75 to 80 mph) is a pain in the ass.
The mild hybrid 2.0T in my Disco Sport makes 286 hp and 295 lb/ft of torque and feels like a rocket ship compared to my 4Runner paired with its 9 speed auto.
The driveability of the new hybrid max setup from Toyota in the Grand Highlander and LC will surely be exceptional compard to the current V6. Hopefully it is an option in the 4Runner also.
You see some pretty nice FJs rolling around in Arizona but I don't know anyone who owns one personally. The fact that our climate doesn't eat cars helps out
.I think the thing with how well these vehicles hold value is that they pretty much are all assumed to be 200K to 300K mileage vehicles, often with minimal mechanical repairs being needed during that lifetime. A 4Runner with 100K miles is just getting started. Meanwhile touching a used European vehicle with over 80K miles on it is kind of terrifying for a counter point. The new Toyota powertrains are going to take some time for folks to trust I think; will need to see people hit 100K+ miles with minimal drama for the longevity to be validated.
This is the exact reason I'm pretty much sure I'm going to run from my Rover after my warranty is up in April. I've had both a VW Golf R and an Audi TT-S before and both started to have issues after 60k miles (luckily with extended warranties). Great cars, but only to own for maybe 3 to 5 years.
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yeah my son just drove us in the 4r to the eastern sierra's on his learners permit and was freaked out by the downshifting using cruise set at 72 on very moderate grades in the desert. I am running 285 with minor lift which makes it worse.
balong48
New member
The 1GR isn't a bad engine by any means, it's just not a great combo with the 5-speed. I'd be interested to see how the 1GR-FE 6-speed combo in the Land Cruiser 300 performs in comparison.
The 2UZ-FE and the 5-speed was a great combo that I dearly miss.
Ugh, typo on my part with the engine based on Toyota alphabet soup. You knew I was talking about the 4.0 V6 though
.I feel like this engine/tranny combo should have been offered in the new LC250 with the hybrid as a higher-cost option. If it’s good enough for a 5900 lb LC300, it’s good enough for the 250. I think it would lend more credibility that the new LC is legit and lives up to its name especially with the way they’ve marketed it during the launch.
thatoneguy
New member
The last few comments are confusing me. Are you all referring to our old 4.0L 1GR-FE V6, or the twin turbo 3.4L in the new LC300/LX500/Tundra/Sequoia, etc? The 4.0L was not going to soldier on eternally, it is very thirsty.
The 3.4L turbo optional hybrid V6 is overkill for the LC250, unless you're willing to pay the money to get the Lexus GX550. Worldwide, that's a no go; not every country has U.S. dirt cheap gasoline.
The new 2.4L turbo hybrid has gobs of power and torque available down low. The 3.4L turbo has... even more... but the luxury of that much power isn't worth the cost and mpg tradeoff for most countries and buyers. I commend them for even bothering to offer the 3.4L V6 in the GX550, for those that want it. The 3.4L is definitely going to do quite a bit worse on fuel than the new 2.4L, and that isn't necessarily an easy sell on a vehicle sold in like 170 countries.
This new four cylinder hybrid might be doing sub-6-second 0 to 60 times in 4Runners, LC250's, or Tacomas. Really seems like enough power to me.
The 3.4L turbo optional hybrid V6 is overkill for the LC250, unless you're willing to pay the money to get the Lexus GX550. Worldwide, that's a no go; not every country has U.S. dirt cheap gasoline.
The new 2.4L turbo hybrid has gobs of power and torque available down low. The 3.4L turbo has... even more... but the luxury of that much power isn't worth the cost and mpg tradeoff for most countries and buyers. I commend them for even bothering to offer the 3.4L V6 in the GX550, for those that want it. The 3.4L is definitely going to do quite a bit worse on fuel than the new 2.4L, and that isn't necessarily an easy sell on a vehicle sold in like 170 countries.
This new four cylinder hybrid might be doing sub-6-second 0 to 60 times in 4Runners, LC250's, or Tacomas. Really seems like enough power to me.
I was suggesting the 1GR-FE (w/newer 6-speed) for the LC250 only for the relative simplicity and proven reliability/durability. To many, that is integral to the LC brand. I’m not saying the new turbo’d hybrid i4 will not be durable or reliable, but it certainly isn’t proven in the eyes of many old LC enthusiasts. The 2.4 iForce Max is clearly the winner when it comes to power, emissions, and fuel efficiency.
If the LC250 as-is starts at $55k, how sweet would it be if it had a 1GR-FE w/6-speed starting at $50k? Now that’s a winner! I don’t recall the price differential for the i4 vs v6, but it would be a similar situation to what Toyota did in 2009 by offering the 2.7L i4 in the first year of the 5th gen 4Runner.
If the LC250 as-is starts at $55k, how sweet would it be if it had a 1GR-FE w/6-speed starting at $50k? Now that’s a winner! I don’t recall the price differential for the i4 vs v6, but it would be a similar situation to what Toyota did in 2009 by offering the 2.7L i4 in the first year of the 5th gen 4Runner.
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