Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[gomiami]

The RX went up a lot in price in the last few years. RX hybrid now starts about $53k and goes up to $72k for the PHEV version. So there's a bit of overlap, but not a ton. Highlander hybrid ranges from about $40-$55k. So, this is priced basically right on top of the Highlander hybrid - which is probably the same vehicle with different body on it.

I think it's probably very close in price when you try to match up comparable trims though. I priced out a highlander hybrid platinum and it is $54,500. A hibrid RX350 with roughly the same options on a base model RXh is $54,400. Nearly identical pricing between them similarly spec'd.

I do think they'll see sales move from RX to Crown. A lot of that has to do with the fact that it's potentially less expensive for what is likely a more functional version of the same thing with more cargo volume. Especially if the $45k version is well equipped. Hard to know without actually driving them back to back. Sometimes the spec sheet doesn't tell the whole story.

One funny aside - as I was doing the build I saw in the accessories that you can buy electric drop down side steps for an RX350. What?? The step in height is about 10 inches off the ground. What would possibly be the situation where you'd need an additional running board step to get into an RX? It's probably within an inch or two of the same step in height as a Camry.

*Edited to correct my own pricing assumptions that were wrong.

The RX price increase made it match or slightly exceed the GX models the last year of two. I never understood it but the RX just crushed the sales numbers when the two models were cross-shopped. I'd take the larger V8 engine and the extra room (along with a dozen other reasons the GX is better than the RX any day of the week.)

 

[qs933]

Toyota definitely is not too concerned about overlap in its lineup. We saw it with RAV4 -> Venza -> NX and Camry -> Crown -> ES; the upcoming 4Runner -> Land Cruiser -> GX; and now with Highlander -> Crown Signia -> RX.

Also seems pretty clear that some of this is just leveraging product development in other markets and squeezing a little more production and return in the US market where it makes sense and yanking it when it doesn't. The 2nd gen Venza seems to fit that -- my understanding is that it'll continue on in other markets.

I really like my 2nd Gen Venza, though, I will be moving on to a RAV4 Prime once it arrives in a few weeks.

And, even if it doesn't make sense on paper, cross-shopping paradoxical sets of vehicles happens. Probably more frequently than you think. Consumer behavior is not always logical -- that's a mistaken assumption that many make.

 

[AZ Craig]

And, even if it doesn't make sense on paper, cross-shopping paradoxical sets of vehicles happens. Probably more frequently than you think. Consumer behavior is not always logical -- that's a mistaken assumption that many make.

I'd actually say that the majority of car purchases have at least some "emotional" component. If everyone bought the vehicle they most needed for their application, I highly doubt we'd have the mix of vehicles we do these days.

For example: The logical side of me thinks I should replace my Discovery Sport with a 3 row cross-over (Grand Highlander, Palisade or a TX500) as we do have need for one at times (moving around multiple kids in boosters/car-seats in tandem with trying to put at least 3 adults in a vehicle).

The emotiional side of me would rather just say "screw it" though and get something fun to drive and performance oriented, perhaps still with a bit of utility so I can still use it for immediate family duties (like a BMW X3 M40i or the new Hyundai Ioniq 5N coming out). If I could get anything that could carry 4 people, I'd probably do an Audi RS3 . There is zero logic in a purchase like that though.

 

[qs933]

I'd actually say that the majority of car purchases have at least some "emotional" component. If everyone bought the vehicle they most needed for their application, I highly doubt we'd have the mix of vehicles we do these days.

Just about every purchase we make as consumers has an emotional component, but totally agree -- there is a lot of that in purchasing a car. It is extremely visible to others. And many of us -- myself included -- knowingly or subconsciously stereotype our first impressions of others by the vehicle they drive.

I would bet that there are quite a few who came in looking for a RAV4 or Highlander or even a Sienna based on "need" -- and left with a 4Runner based on emotion.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

And many of us -- myself included -- knowingly or subconsciously stereotype our first impressions of others by the vehicle they drive.

As a practical engineer, I buy the model that suits my needs, has the features I want, has the legroom I need, and is a reliable brand/model. I can afford whatever brand I want, but the first requirements get filled first, I've never found the the need to upscale, for the sake of appearance, but I know many that do, for me, it's pragmatism first, and I don't give one care about stereotypes.

(See the connection, that is why I can afford whatever model, but I prefer to keep the bank account fuller, than worry about someone I don't know and they don't know me, and what they may perceive about me due to the car I drive, life really is simpler.)

 

[Jetboy]

The RX and GX were priced fairly similar. As are the Highlander and 4Runner. Similar in a lot of ways, but also quite different in how they get there. The big difference to me is that the RX is significantly nicer to drive on the highway and around town. The GX is far more capable off the highway, towing, ect. Just kinda different tools for different tasks.

The other big difference is the RX is up to 37mpg and has a PHEV option while the new GX550 is supposedly 17mpg. If you don't actually tow or go off road, the RX is probably a better option. If you do - the GX is the better choice.

New GX pricing leaked. Not sure if it's been posed on here. But it ranges from $62k for a base model GX550 up to $80k for a Luxury Plus. The Overtrail is $67k. IMO - that's a pretty good value compared to previous LC models and especially vs the LX600 that starts about $105k now. I'm not sure you're getting $35k more vehicle for the extra $35k. And that is vs the LX600 with base suspension. The Overtrail has eKDSS, rear locker, and other offroad goodies. To get AHC in the LX it's more like $120k.

Still some GX/RX overlap, but less than before. New GX is $62-80 and RX is now $53-72k. Closest apples to apples is probably RX500h that is 366hp/406tq vs the GX550 at 349/479. RX500h is $64k vs GX550 at 63k. So - those are very close in price. But the base RX awd at $52k is probably the volume seller vs the base GX at $62k.

 

[gomiami]

I'd actually say that the majority of car purchases have at least some "emotional" component. If everyone bought the vehicle they most needed for their application, I highly doubt we'd have the mix of vehicles we do these days.

For example: The logical side of me thinks I should replace my Discovery Sport with a 3 row cross-over (Grand Highlander, Palisade or a TX500) as we do have need for one at times (moving around multiple kids in boosters/car-seats in tandem with trying to put at least 3 adults in a vehicle).

The emotiional side of me would rather just say "screw it" though and get something fun to drive and performance oriented, perhaps still with a bit of utility so I can still use it for immediate family duties (like a BMW X3 M40i or the new Hyundai Ioniq 5N coming out). If I could get anything that could carry 4 people, I'd probably do an Audi RS3 . There is zero logic in a purchase like that though.

...and car salesmen are trained to enhance that emotional connection as well. Throughout the months wait to get my new rig, the Lexus guy has been, wilth great skill and subtlety, making small emotional connections between myself and the GX as it goes through the build process.

An Audi RS3 would be nice...

 

[gomiami]

The RX and GX were priced fairly similar. As are the Highlander and 4Runner. Similar in a lot of ways, but also quite different in how they get there. The big difference to me is that the RX is significantly nicer to drive on the highway and around town. The GX is far more capable off the highway, towing, ect. Just kinda different tools for different tasks.

The other big difference is the RX is up to 37mpg and has a PHEV option while the new GX550 is supposedly 17mpg. If you don't actually tow or go off road, the RX is probably a better option. If you do - the GX is the better choice.

New GX pricing leaked. Not sure if it's been posed on here. But it ranges from $62k for a base model GX550 up to $80k for a Luxury Plus. The Overtrail is $67k. IMO - that's a pretty good value compared to previous LC models and especially vs the LX600 that starts about $105k now. I'm not sure you're getting $35k more vehicle for the extra $35k. And that is vs the LX600 with base suspension. The Overtrail has eKDSS, rear locker, and other offroad goodies. To get AHC in the LX it's more like $120k.

Still some GX/RX overlap, but less than before. New GX is $62-80 and RX is now $53-72k. Closest apples to apples is probably RX500h that is 366hp/406tq vs the GX550 at 349/479. RX500h is $64k vs GX550 at 63k. So - those are very close in price. But the base RX awd at $52k is probably the volume seller vs the base GX at $62k.

The '23 RX is significantly smaller for interior room and visual presentation than either the outgoing GX460 and the incoming GX550. There were plenty of people milling around the Lexus showrooms when I was shopping but I almost never saw people who were serious about buying sit in an RX and a GX.

They would gravitate towards either smaller (RX then NX) or larger (GX then LX.) There might be a price overlap but I'm not sure there is much customer overlap.

 

[Jetboy]

The '23 RX is significantly smaller for interior room and visual presentation than either the outgoing GX460 and the incoming GX550. There were plenty of people milling around the Lexus showrooms when I was shopping but I almost never saw people who were serious about buying sit in an RX and a GX.

They would gravitate towards either smaller (RX then NX) or larger (GX then LX.) There might be a price overlap but I'm not sure there is much customer overlap.

I wouldn't put too much weight on one hour in a show room. But I agree that most buyers probably don't cross shop the two. The RX pretty constantly sells about 4 times as many units as the GX. Most buyers seem to want it over the GX. It makes sense for most people. It's just a better car. If you don't need a truck, why have all the compromises of a BOF?

RX is also wider, longer, and longer wheelbase than a gx460. Better tech. Better ride quality. More front seat headroom and shoulder room. All the stuff you get in a car platform that's updated much more frequently than the old BOF models. Ironically the RX has more ground clearance.

It's not better or worse. Just a different vehicle. The GX is much better at towing, hauling, off-road stuff, etc. New GX even more so.

I'd bet most buyers know what model they want before going into the dealership. I doubt many buyers looking at a $60k GX are also considering a $120k LX. The new TX will be interesting to see. It's the biggest SUV in the showroom. Between that and the new bigger gx550 that's better off-road and the same size as the LX, I'm not sure who is going to be buying the LX.

 

[TheSpinDoctor]

New GX pricing leaked. Not sure if it's been posed on here. But it ranges from $62k for a base model GX550 up to $80k for a Luxury Plus. The Overtrail is $67k. IMO - that's a pretty good value compared to previous LC models and especially vs the LX600 that starts about $105k now.

As Jetboy alluded earlier, pricing for the GX is out, including stand alone options.

Surprisingly, it will be possible to order a GX without a moonroof.

The Overtrail’s roof rack is cheaper than on other trims, but its crossbars are much more expensive.

Front/mid skid plates and rock rails will also be available.

 

[qs933]

I wouldn't put too much weight on one hour in a show room. But I agree that most buyers probably don't cross shop the two. The RX pretty constantly sells about 4 times as many units as the GX. Most buyers seem to want it over the GX. It makes sense for most people. It's just a better car. If you don't need a truck, why have all the compromises of a BOF?

In Hawaii, 4Runner outsells Highlander by a considerable margin. Some of them are 4WD and, particularly on the neighbor islands, see off-road use. But many, particularly on Oahu, are RWD and probably the worst terrain they face are our potholed streets.

In 2012, my final choices came down to the Lexus ct200h and a 4Runner Limited. Can’t get much more different than that. On paper, the ct200h made more sense, but I went with the 4Runner.

There’s just something about the 4Runner that appeals to me. Doesn’t make any practical sense.

 

[gomiami]

I wouldn't put too much weight on one hour in a show room. But I agree that most buyers probably don't cross shop the two. The RX pretty constantly sells about 4 times as many units as the GX. Most buyers seem to want it over the GX. It makes sense for most people. It's just a better car. If you don't need a truck, why have all the compromises of a BOF?

RX is also wider, longer, and longer wheelbase than a gx460. Better tech. Better ride quality. More front seat headroom and shoulder room. All the stuff you get in a car platform that's updated much more frequently than the old BOF models. Ironically the RX has more ground clearance.

It's not better or worse. Just a different vehicle. The GX is much better at towing, hauling, off-road stuff, etc. New GX even more so.

I'd bet most buyers know what model they want before going into the dealership. I doubt many buyers looking at a $60k GX are also considering a $120k LX. The new TX will be interesting to see. It's the biggest SUV in the showroom. Between that and the new bigger gx550 that's better off-road and the same size as the LX, I'm not sure who is going to be buying the LX.

Well, I spent a lot more than an hour in a Lexus showroom...more like 10 hours over 4 dealerships before I finally placed a deposit down on a GX.

9 out of 10 would think the GX is the larger of the two (when compared to an RX.) I'm not sure I agree with the better ride quality belonging to the RX. I didn't like the stiffness of the RX, the electronic steering nor the stock tire size choice. The GX, with 18'' wheels, rides very nicely and both the hydraulic steering and the suspension are tuned to give a lot of feedback from the road, probably thanks to the Prado underpinnings. It's a very different effect.

I agree that most buyers have a model in their head when they first walk in. I knew what I was looking for but test drove the RX anyway. The LX will be bought by executives, as it always has.

 

[AZ Craig]

New GX pricing leaked. Not sure if it's been posed on here. But it ranges from $62k for a base model GX550 up to $80k for a Luxury Plus. The Overtrail is $67k. IMO - that's a pretty good value compared to previous LC models and especially vs the LX600 that starts about $105k now. I'm not sure you're getting $35k more vehicle for the extra $35k. And that is vs the LX600 with base suspension. The Overtrail has eKDSS, rear locker, and other offroad goodies. To get AHC in the LX it's more like $120k.

Still some GX/RX overlap, but less than before. New GX is $62-80 and RX is now $53-72k. Closest apples to apples is probably RX500h that is 366hp/406tq vs the GX550 at 349/479. RX500h is $64k vs GX550 at 63k. So - those are very close in price. But the base RX awd at $52k is probably the volume seller vs the base GX at $62k.

I haven't seen the break down on the leaked pricing, but $67K for an Overtrail is super reasonable considering that 4Runner TRD Pro is up around $55K currently and the new LC is going to be $60K+ it sounds like.

I'm probably not going to pull the trigger on replacing my 4Runner until we know what the 6th gen is going to be like, but the GX550 is a real option at this point I think.

 

[2chains]

I haven't seen the break down on the leaked pricing, but $67K for an Overtrail is super reasonable considering that 4Runner TRD Pro is up around $55K currently and the new LC is going to be $60K+ it sounds like.

I'm probably not going to pull the trigger on replacing my 4Runner until we know what the 6th gen is going to be like, but the GX550 is a real option at this point I think.

x2 on that!
I too am going to wait and see the details on the new T4R before I pull the trigger on a GX550 or new T4R! Anyone else in the same boat? I bet there are a ton!

Just picked up a 2013 BP Limited as my 3rd gen is just too “rustic” at this point and going to ride it out for a year or two until the T4R details are worked out.

 

[Blackwatch]

If the 1958 LC250 is $55,000 and a base GX550 is $63000 where does that leave the LC250 for pricing?

 

[mscot]

The emotiional side of me would rather just say "screw it" though and get something fun to drive and performance oriented, perhaps still with a bit of utility so I can still use it for immediate family duties (like a BMW X3 M40i or the new Hyundai Ioniq 5N coming out).

I just traded in my 4Runner for an X5 50e so I totally get wanting something fun to drive.

In Hawaii, 4Runner outsells Highlander by a considerable margin. Some of them are 4WD and, particularly on the neighbor islands, see off-road use. But many, particularly on Oahu, are RWD and probably the worst terrain they face are our potholed streets.

Surfboards are easy to stick out of that rear window!

 

[AZ Craig]

If the 1958 LC250 is $55,000 and a base GX550 is $63000 where does that leave the LC250 for pricing?

I remember reading that the LC250 First Edition was likely going to end up somewhere right around $60K. Toyota and Lexus have had pricing overlap on similar vehicles before, so a loaded LC coming in around maybe $64K wouldn't be out of the question.

I think the real thing to consider is going to be if you want the Hybrid Max powertrain with the better fuel economy or the burlier I6 turbo in the GX550. I look at the 8000 vs. 6000 tow rating and that makes the Lexus really tempting despite the fuel economy hit.

 

[AZ Craig]

I just traded in my 4Runner for an X5 50e so I totally get wanting something fun to drive.

I remember you mentioning earlier in this thread that you were thinking about one. Enjoying it so far?

I drove the 40i X5 and really liked it while looking around. If you could still get a third row as a special order in an X5 I'd really be willing to splurge on one, but I actually think the X3 M40i is the better driver's car overall for about $10K less similarly equipped. X5 has air suspension and about 30% more cargo room, but interior passenger volume is really close to the X3 (which just feels a lot smaller and lighter to me).

After getting creamed on depreciation for my 3 European cars previously (my Rover, a VW Golf R and an Audi TT-S), I'm really tempted to go a different way this time though. Especially considering the X5 is consistently in top 10 worst depreciation lists... If you plan on buying something to hold it even with expensive up keep later in life though, it's not a huge concern.

 

[gomiami]

Here is a feature comparison for the GX550 on the Lexus website.

https://www.lexus.com/content/dam/lexus/documents/fcv/MY24-Lexus-GX-POG.pdf

 

[Jetboy]

Well, I spent a lot more than an hour in a Lexus showroom...more like 10 hours over 4 dealerships before I finally placed a deposit down on a GX.

9 out of 10 would think the GX is the larger of the two (when compared to an RX.) I'm not sure I agree with the better ride quality belonging to the RX. I didn't like the stiffness of the RX, the electronic steering nor the stock tire size choice. The GX, with 18'' wheels, rides very nicely and both the hydraulic steering and the suspension are tuned to give a lot of feedback from the road, probably thanks to the Prado underpinnings. It's a very different effect.

I agree that most buyers have a model in their head when they first walk in. I knew what I was looking for but test drove the RX anyway. The LX will be bought by executives, as it always has.

I think the GX is larger by volume. It's quite a bit taller. And the RX gives up a lot of its interior space to the stylized rear. I notice on mine how much less interior volume it has behind the seats vs my 4Runner because of the slope of the rear glass. It's a great vehicle for what it is - a car with big tires. It's entire point is to be invisible and I think it does that perfectly. It's incredibly boring to own. Nothing ever goes wrong. It never squeaks, never rattles, never feels sport or too slow, never has bad tire wear, never has a light bulb go out. It has a center diff lock, but you never need to use it because it figures it out for you. It's just there to shuttle you wherever you want in any weather without any mental effort required. It's the non-enthusiast's car. The other big plus of the RX is that it comes pre-programmed to self drive to the nearest retirement community.

I've said this a million times - but Toyota really needs to build an RX size SUV on the GA-L platform that's under the RWD or rear biased awd sedans. I've also had an IS and the RWD longitudinal engine platform would be much more engaging to drive under an RX sized SUV than the front wheel drive layout. Making an RX a sporty vehicle ruins the reason it exists IMO. It's not supposed to be a fast sport SUV. And the recent suspension updates - especially the F sport versions - don't do it any favors. It's still not fast. You just made it less comfortable.

I thought that it was at least a possibility that we'd see the TX go that route. IMO that would have been the way to bump up to mid range towing capacity. If they built the same body as the TX but on the GA-L platform with a TTV6 engine and something like the gen2 Sequoia or LS500 rear suspension it should be capable of more like 7500lb towing. Then it would be much closer to a direct competitor with similar size luxury 3 row models like the Mercedes GLS.