Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[Blackwatch]

Might be the first shot of a 6th gen 4Runner.

It was a TRD Jon video but it looks like he removed it. It was an SUV with camo but had vents in the fender behind the wheel and looked more like an Nissan Armada.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=S8M49YzEq3kvcoOm&v=cmjabTDCftg&feature=youtu.be

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Might be the first shot of a 6th gen 4Runner.

It was a TRD Jon video but it looks like he removed it. It was an SUV with camo but had vents in the fender behind the wheel and looked more like an Nissan Armada.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=S8M49YzEq3kvcoOm&v=cmjabTDCftg&feature=youtu.be

It was a false alarm, he posted this on Facebook:

TRD JON
Edit: it’s the Nissan Armada.
#4runner #trd #trdpro #toyota #toyota4Runner #trdjon #trdjonpitcrew #toyotatacoma

TRD JON

 

[thatoneguy]

FWIW - I saw this on the Taco forum supposedly a MSRP base price set for the 2024 Tacoma. I would take with a grain of salt. But it's close enough to possibly be in the realm of reality. If it is - it's a pretty small jump in most models over the outgoing one. And pretty reasonable pricing TBH. I'd be happy to see the next gen 4Runners come in around these relative increases. If it's only $2-3k over current pricing I think it would be really reasonable.

Also - how the heck is there not pricing yet for a model that supposedly will be in showrooms by the end of the year? It's time.

SR - $29,599 ($999 increase from 2023 model)
SR5 - $32,999 ($1719 increase from 2023 model)
TRD PreRunner - $34,599
TRD Sport - $36,599 ($1089 increase from 2023 model)
TRD Off-Road - $39,599 ($2809 increase from 2023 model)
Limited - $43,999 ($2644 increase from 2023 model)
TRD Pro- $49,599 ($1565 increase from 2023)
Trailhunter - $54,599

If those pricings are accurate, reasonable increases indeed. All of those increases would get more than made up by the fuel savings alone over a few years.

In the case of lower models like the SR... $999 increase to move from the thirsty and incredibly slow 2.7L 2TR to the basic version of the new 2.4L turbo with the 8-speed automatic or a stick is a great value add. On the high end, a couple thousand to go from the old wheezy breezy 3.5L V6 / 6AT to the new quarter mile special hybrid 2.4L turbo is also not bad. Not to mention other niceties like finally getting disk brakes, most trims going to rear coils, driving position getting improved, etc. It's strange to think that with all the next-gen midsize trucks out now, the age of the slow pickup truck is basically over (maybe the Frontier is still kinda slow).

I go to my local auto expo every January. Toyota does no pressure test drives there. I hope they have 2024 Tacomas on offer, because I really wanna try that powertrain, since it's all but certain to end up in the NextRunner.

4Runner pricing in modern times really pulled away from the Tacoma, probably because the 4.0L V6 is very thirsty and taxed even harder on EPA penalties, and that Japanese production and shipping costs more. If the 4Runner moves to Mexico production, I would expect it to barely increase in price, if at all.

Toyota is doing a great job at consolidating, sharing more and more parts and platforms, and generally just leaning out their supply chains and production lines. Between the 4Runner and Tacoma, they recently had three different engines and three different transmissions offered between them. That's gonna be down to one engine (with a hybrid variant), and two transmissions; and finally riding on the same platform, along with the Land Cruiser 250 sharing everything. The GX is back to sharing an engine with the Sequoia/Tundra. Simple. All the eggs in the baskets of two engines; I trust they'll have gotten them right with, at worst, maaaybe first year teething issues.

 

[jray29]

If you follow the LC market it has remained steady since they announced the new hybrid 250 setup. I'd imagine a similar trend 4Runner market as well with the 6banger. A lot of us care about reliability in an offroad vehicle. Not MPG. That iForce V8 and the current 6 are bulletproof

 

[Jetboy]

If you follow the LC market it has remained steady since they announced the new hybrid 250 setup. I'd imagine a similar trend 4Runner market as well with the 6banger. A lot of us care about reliability in an offroad vehicle. Not MPG. That iForce V8 and the current 6 are bulletproof

I'm not sure we're seeing the same market. I see Heritage LC200's now under $75k and 2016+ LC200's and LX570's in the mid 40s. That's a big drop from the prices even a year ago.

More importantly - we also saw the LC200 discontinued in North America due to lack of sales. There are a few people who want a 13mpg midsize SUV. But not enough to make a viable product unless it's more like a G wagon where the margins are huge. Land Cruiser sales in the rest of the world also suggest that almost all land cruiser buyers care about fuel economy. The diesel models sell much better despite being slower and less reliable (unless you're talking about a 1HZ with 90hp) than the gas counterparts. They sell because they are significantly more economical to own and go a lot further on a tank of fuel.

I have a 5.7 Tundra. It's fine. But I would happily trade for a V35A for the big improvement in power and the better mpg. I don't like a lot about the new Tundra design. But the powertrain is pretty good. If the LC250 really does get 27mpg - I think we're going to see a pretty hard price cap on LC200's at about $55k and everything else will go down from there. Plus side is that the 200's will be priced in a range where they'll make great weekend toys to build. They have a lot going for them as a base for a family trail rig when the pricing is low enough to not feel too bad about cutting one up.

EDIT:
Here's a good example of a clean carfax, nice condition, LC200 under 150k miles that's ready to be built into a family offroad wagon for $26k. cargurus.com

Or a clean LX570 with 137k miles for $21k. TBH they're starting to call my name as a weekend toy at these prices. If they get down into the mid teens - I might seriously look at one. But not as a daily driver. Add gears, armor, 37's, and it starts to look like a pretty great adventure mobile for a reasonable budget.

cargurus.com

 

[jray29]

… or this that literally just sold today. 101k. Not A bad fetch for a 3 year old truck. I’d say that market is still robust.
2021 Toyota Land Cruiser URJ200 Heritage Edition for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $101,500 on November 27, 2023 (Lot #128,910) | Bring a Trailer

 

[Jetboy]

… or this that literally just sold today. 101k. Not A bad fetch for a 3 year old truck. I’d say that market is still robust.
2021 Toyota Land Cruiser URJ200 Heritage Edition for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $101,500 on November 27, 2023 (Lot #128,910) | Bring a Trailer

Money Laundering?

$81k
cargurus.com

 

[Blackwatch]

I was reading some posts on the Tacoma world forum and some are saying their dealerships have said the new Tundra had to have it's oil pump reengineered (upsized) due to the engine failures.

I'm still on the fence about getting an underground 2024 TRD OR and putting up with the extra gas bill.

 

[jray29]

LOL drive depreciating asset 50k miles AND keep value above MSRP? Bold, even for a Land Cruiser. Adam Smith surely couldn't accomplish that with his invisible hands. Not sure how to properly measure market robustness, but getting 92% of MSRP after driving a vehicle for 50k mile with a 4 year old vehicle that was "discontinued due to lack of sales" appears like the demand is just fine. I'd imagine about 150M other vehicle owners in the US wish they had that demand, but then again, I'm not an economist. Just wanted to post about how the V8 was bulletproof. I don't see the UN switching the the 250 Hybrids anytime soon :yield:

 

[mscot]

Where do you see 50k miles? That LR had 3400. Still had to be a crazy person to buy it at that price.

 

[MAST4R]

That's a tough question. As a solo off-roader, reliability is #1 for me. Toyota hybrids have plenty enough history, so no worries there. The turbo, otoh, is certainly a potential hassle.

Then, again, the real issue is dependability. Preventative maintenance solves predictable problems. What we cannot afford is a random problem for no obvious reason.

Certainly, if I were choosing a 10 year old turbo hybrid VS a 12 year old V6 specifically for an expedition vehicle, I would definitely go with the latter.

Then, again, all the people who say they do 90/10 actually do 99/1 or maybe do 99.9/0.1% offroad. I have done plenty of offroading in the 4R in 4 states and 1 Canadian province and for all that I am only 10% offroad of total mileage. And I only commute twice a week, 25 miles/week!

Long-distance highway/interstate takes much of my mileage. And the V6 gets me 17 mph w/o a roof basket. And it is a pain to drive in mountains....

Back to offroad basics, if the new 4R can easily accommodate 35s, I can definitely see myself going that way

 

[Jetboy]

LOL drive depreciating asset 50k miles AND keep value above MSRP? Bold, even for a Land Cruiser. Adam Smith surely couldn't accomplish that with his invisible hands. Not sure how to properly measure market robustness, but getting 92% of MSRP after driving a vehicle for 50k mile with a 4 year old vehicle that was "discontinued due to lack of sales" appears like the demand is just fine. I'd imagine about 150M other vehicle owners in the US wish they had that demand, but then again, I'm not an economist. Just wanted to post about how the V8 was bulletproof. I don't see the UN switching the the 250 Hybrids anytime soon :yield:

I sold my 4runner for close to full MSRP after 8 years and 80k very hard miles. Close to MSRP at 4 years - meh. That's basically every Toyota 4x4.

200s weren't popular until they quit selling them. I don't think they'll hold well once the 250/GX comes in volume.

 

[thatoneguy]

Floodgates are starting to open for some hard 2024 Tacoma info. MSRP information, and MPG information for the non-hybrid engines.

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With destination:
SR XtraCab 4x2: $32,995
SR Double Cab 4x2: $35,195
SR XtraCab 4x4: $36,195
SR5 XtraCab 4x2: $37,695
SR Double Cab 4x4: $38,395
SR Double Cab 4x4 6MT: $38,395
SR5 Double Cab 4x2: $38,695
SR5 Double Cab 4x2 6’ Bed: $39,915
TRD PreRunner XtraCab 4x2: $39,595
SR5 XtraCab 4x4: $40,895
TRD Sport Double Cab 4x2: $40,895
TRD Sport Double Cab 4x2 6' Bed: $41,395
SR5 Double Cab 4x4: $41,895
SR5 Double Cab 4x4 6' Bed: $42,395
TRD Sport Double Cab 4x4 6MT: $43,295
TRD Off-Road Double Cab 4x4 6MT: $43,295
TRD Sport Double Cab 4x4: $44,095
TRD Off-Road Double Cab 4x4: $44,395
TRD Sport Double Cab 4x4 6' Bed: $44,595
TRD Off-Road Double Cab 4x4: 6' Bed $44,895
Limited Double Cab 4x4: $53,595

Best 2wd non-hybrid mpg: 21/26/23mpg
Best 4wd non-hybrid mpg: 19/24/21mpg

The hybrid should boost it at least 1mpg, maybe 2-4. Remember that it's misleading to compare these figures to ratings of older vehicles. The EPA tests get harder every year, so comparing to a 2020 Tacoma's rating is a bit unfair. The 5th gen 4Runner's EPA rating has dropped twice since it was released, with no powertrain changes.

 

[hoppyjr]

I can’t imagine MPG being a significant factor when buying a truck or SUV, but maybe that’s just me.

 

[thatoneguy]

I can’t imagine MPG being a significant factor when buying a truck or SUV, but maybe that’s just me.

Different strokes for different folks. Some people drive their trucks 20-40k miles a year. No matter how "hot stuff wealthy" one is, most people start caring about gallons consumed in those situations. The Ford F-150 w/ ecoboost did not become a smash sales success by accident.

As long as reliability is maintained, there's no negative to burning less fuel to accomplish the same tasks.

 

[Jetboy]

Floodgates are starting to open for some hard 2024 Tacoma info. MSRP information, and MPG information for the non-hybrid engines.

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Best 2wd non-hybrid mpg: 21/26/23mpg
Best 4wd non-hybrid mpg: 19/24/21mpg

The hybrid should boost it at least 1mpg, maybe 2-4. Remember that it's misleading to compare these figures to ratings of older vehicles. The EPA tests get harder every year, so comparing to a 2020 Tacoma's rating is a bit unfair. The 5th gen 4Runner's EPA rating has dropped twice since it was released, with no powertrain changes.

MPG seems on the low side to what I'd expect given that the Tundra is 18/24 or 20/24 with hybrid. I'd expect the Tacoma to get at least 2-3mpg better than Tundra. 23/27/25 would be pretty good numbers IMO for a hybrid Tacoma 4x4. The best comparison I can think of is 5.7 Tundra vs 4.0 Tacoma - the Taco beat the tundra by 4mpg.

 

[thatoneguy]

MPG seems on the low side to what I'd expect given that the Tundra is 18/24 or 20/24 with hybrid. I'd expect the Tacoma to get at least 2-3mpg better than Tundra. 23/27/25 would be pretty good numbers IMO for a hybrid Tacoma 4x4. The best comparison I can think of is 5.7 Tundra vs 4.0 Tacoma - the Taco beat the tundra by 4mpg.

Comparing to the Tundra, it does seem about 2-3mpg better than non-hybrid Tundras. Lot of different Tundra numbers, hard to know what's what. An SR on street tires and a TRD Offroad on semi-meaty tires might get two different ratings. I agree that like 1mpg better would've been nice. EDIT: saw a video today (TheTopher) where the TRD Sport was on 265/65R18 tires--31.6"; that size probably holds true for SR5 and TRD Offroad as well. So they accomplished their MPG increase while finally getting with the times on a tire diameter increase.

My general guess is that hybrid variants will do 1-2mpg better. Probably not more than that, but well, maybe. The EPA tests have idling, and hybrid vehicles tend to shut the engine off during that. Speaking of which, does the non-hybrid Tacoma have stop/start?

Gas Mileage of 2023 Toyota Tundra

 

[Bmnorm2]

MPG seems on the low side to what I'd expect given that the Tundra is 18/24 or 20/24 with hybrid. I'd expect the Tacoma to get at least 2-3mpg better than Tundra. 23/27/25 would be pretty good numbers IMO for a hybrid Tacoma 4x4. The best comparison I can think of is 5.7 Tundra vs 4.0 Tacoma - the Taco beat the tundra by 4mpg.

Comparing to the Tundra, it does seem about 2-3mpg better than non-hybrid Tundras. Lot of different Tundra numbers, hard to know what's what. An SR on street tires and a TRD Offroad on semi-meaty tires might get two different ratings. I agree that like 1mpg better would've been nice. EDIT: saw a video today (TheTopher) where the TRD Sport was on 265/65R18 tires--31.6"; that size probably holds true for SR5 and TRD Offroad as well. So they accomplished their MPG increase while finally getting with the times on a tire diameter increase.

My general guess is that hybrid variants will do 1-2mpg better. Probably not more than that, but well, maybe. The EPA tests have idling, and hybrid vehicles tend to shut the engine off during that. Speaking of which, does the non-hybrid Tacoma have stop/start?

Gas Mileage of 2023 Toyota Tundra

Lexus TX500h with the 2.4 turbo hybrid drivetrain is rated at 27 mpg city, 28 mpg hwy.

I expect the tacoma will be the same, maybe slightly better since it is a lower power rating.

 

[Blackwatch]

Some of the reviewers are saying only the TRD Pro, Trail Hunter and Limited will get the hybrid system. This would make sense, TRD OR hybrid would bleed a lot of sales from the Pro.

Starting to think the 6th gen 4Runner will be the same with the off-road and below trims only getting the 2.4 turbo and no hybrid. I had been hoping for a 6th gen 4R hybrid.

 

[qs933]

Starting to think the 6th gen 4Runner will be the same with the off-road and below trims only getting the 2.4 turbo and no hybrid. I had been hoping for a 6th gen 4R hybrid.

Or maybe all 4R will be hybrid, similar to Sequoia?