I just mean vertical wheel travel (articulation) that is enhanced because of KDSS. Maybe I'm using the wrong term...
Borfoo3's '15 TEP-KDSS 'no longer' mild build
- Thread starter borfoo3
- Start date
I just mean vertical wheel travel (articulation) that is enhanced because of KDSS. Maybe I'm using the wrong term...
borfoo3
New member
Starting to feel this way.. took a closer look at clearances lock to lock and looks like there's bit of room at the bumper side (front part) and no rubbing at all. The mudguard side (rear part) rubbing a small patch at ~80% wheel lock on the raised plastic part of the mudguards. I'm guessing the 1.25" wheel spacers might have helped position things that way rather than when they were tucked in.. Might trim the raised plastic portion or do the heat gun and bottle press that I've seen floating around the forums (think someone did it for their tacoma flaps).
Honestly not that many shops I really trust around here.. Plus most haven't worked on anything with KDSS.
Here's some pics:
Point of rub (at ~80% wheel lock)
Tire rubber residue at lower inner raised side of mud guard
Front bumper clearance at full turn
Was honestly concerned with this, but couldn't find any solid numbers on how much exactly does KDSS allow in extra articulation to check numbers.. Plus, the stock TOKICO's that came off the truck are the same as the ones on non-KDSS T4Rs AFAIK (except the Limited's XREAS thing), not some sort of 'extra travel' types. So if those worked fine, so should these. That and the 5160s are good for 2" lift, so at stock height it should still have some 'down travel' room. For fronts, It doesn't seem like KDSS adds any more down travel to the IFS setup, but rather only disengages a jointed sway bar via the KDSS piston to let the suspension do its thing more freely on the bumpy stuff.
Finally, plenty of others who've done higher setups than mine w/KDSS still doing well out there.
At least, that's my view on this. Could be completely wrong. Will find out for sure if something pops and spills oil all over..
Was indifferent to either as I believe AFE makes the TRDs anyways.. Just happened to find a better deal on the TRDs shipped :canada:
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borfoo3
New member
---- Update ----
Took it back for the rubbing issue, turns out it does indeed rub both on front bumper and rear mudguards... actually was bad enough to drag the bumper down a bit on the inside when tires were close to full turn.
Took a little bit off the front bumper (innermost edge) and zip tied the inner plastic part of the mudguard. All clear and lovely!
In summary: 1.25" wheel spacers will cause rubbing with this setup
Took it back for the rubbing issue, turns out it does indeed rub both on front bumper and rear mudguards... actually was bad enough to drag the bumper down a bit on the inside when tires were close to full turn.
Took a little bit off the front bumper (innermost edge) and zip tied the inner plastic part of the mudguard. All clear and lovely!
In summary: 1.25" wheel spacers will cause rubbing with this setup
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Orangutan
New member
Nice write up, I was leaning toward this for my 275 KO2's with Bilstein .085's. (not a fan of the pie cutter look) and could not understand why you got rubbing. I am use to minor rubbing from my 2001 4Runner, so the modification is no big deal. What I want to ask, since you are so thorough.., Did you notice a difference in ride quality with the spacers? Or did you install the spacers along with the lift, and have no comparison to speak of. Thanks in advance.
borfoo3
New member
Rubbing was because the spacers positioned the tire out enough so that within its turn radius it would touch the bump on the mudguard and inner part of the front bumper.. took the spacer off today due to fit and safety issues (see update below).
Spacers went on with the lift originally, so nothing to compare to previously.. however, since they're off today I didn't notice any difference in driving behavior from with the spacer installed.
---- Update ----
Installed the Magnaflow 18" (#12255) and man it sounds sweet! Nothing noticeable at ide, deep nice rumble at 1.5k RPM to 2.5k RPM and keeps sounding sweet WOT to redline without any raspiness!
You could go louder with a 14", might be a bit more raspy I would guess.. But I'm no muffler expert. IMO the 18" is the perfect balance of daily comfort (no droning) and smile-to-gas-pedal entertainment.
Also got an alignment done.. turned out it really needed one. So you guys were right. [MENTION=125788]msp[/MENTION] [MENTION=103267]Saker[/MENTION] [MENTION=81322]barryhiram[/MENTION]
Numbers before alignment (or could have been after 1st round, guy was bad with paperwork):
Numbers after 1st alignment:
Also did a tire balance while I was there and saw this with the front spacers!
Yep got lucky nothing came off... Those nuts were literally holding on to just a few threads of the OEM studs!! A reminder on why its good to keep an eye on the install work rather than dropping off your car at a (supposedly reputable) garage and having faith that someone else will do a good job for you.. And the value of a truly honest shop. Irony is I even took it back for re-torqueing but was busy chatting with the shop owner on LED's and didn't actually see them working on the spacers. However, rears were on fine as the OEM studs in the back were a bit longer than the front.
My mistake, fooled twice, lesson learned.
I've taken the spacers off and returned to the original garage that sold/ installed it for me for a full refund. Don't think they'll be seeing me around anytime soon.
After the original alignment (with spacers) everything was in spec but not perfect.. maxed out on the passenger tire camber adjustment bolt. Took it for the ride home and realized it tends to steer left on the road
After removing spacers, a complete re-alignment was done and I've asked him set it to go a bit more towards the right to compensate the left turn tendency. This is the best they could do with stock UCA's:
Also drives much better on the highway now, and I blamed the poor KO2s thinking it was their fault for the shaky ride! You would think the dealership would balance the tires they installed upon delivery of a brand new 4Runner.. Ahh well, end of the day it's my fault for assuming too much I guess.
Anyways, it drives super nice now. Still has a verrrryyy slight pull to left when steering wheel is centered. Alignment guy says that's the best he can do and this time I was there all 6 hours watching him try. Also no signs of tire rub obviously as I'm back to stock hubs with the spacers gone.
I'm happy with the setup and drive now, but definitely learned 3 things:
1- 6112/5160 on 2nd notch is at the limit of what stock UCA's can handle for alignments sake.
2- Aftermarket UCA's the way to go for easier adjustment, and definitely a must for higher lift setups
3- Finding a quality shop is more important than finding quality parts! (unless your good enough to do a fine job yourself)
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3William56
New member
I'm about to begin doing a few mods to my '15 SR5 and I learned a lot from your thread and have a better idea of how I'm going to go about things. Thanks!
borfoo3
New member
It seems pretty common that the 6112 adjustment notches are giving people higher than advertised lifts.. check the 6112 thread and you'll see what I mean, myself included. My 0.85" 2nd notch actually gave me close to 1.25" lift..
Given what I recently experienced, I believe you should get UCA's for anything above 2nd notch. Even on 2nd notch, UCA's will give you better adjustment options for the alignment. Plus, its easier to mount them when someone is already installing the new shocks anyways.
I won't do UCA's now as my setup works good and I have no intention of going any higher, but if I were to do this again I would seriously consider them.
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Yup, I'm aware of the Bilstein 6112 settings. The third notch is widely confirmed to give a solid 2" lift. I know it's been beat to death but I think for a mild/moderate front lift like that, stock UCAs "should" be more than fine.
Guess a lot of it will depend on simply how easy/hard it is to get the alignment into spec.
Did your tech specifically say it was difficult to get the caster into that position? A lot of this is also shop/tech dependent, unfortunately.
Orangutan
New member
Thank you for response, oh boy..., new wheels it will be. Side note, after two wheel alignments my 2015 4Runner still pulls to the left ever so slightly, yet just enough to keep left hand pressure on the wheel, especially on highways, so norm, could be our tread design on the K02's, but I'm not complaining..., having grown up with Buckshot Radial Mudders lol
Saker
Senior Member
[MENTION=81383]Orangutan[/MENTION],
Sounds like alignment issue to me.
Take it to a reputable alignment shop.
Tread design causing this? No!
Could it possibly be a bad tire, yes.
Orangutan
New member
I guess when I get new wheels, I may try a different shop... At least they will be balanced again, and I can start from scratch... Still she rides great compared to my other Runner.
borfoo3
New member
I've seen your build, good stuff man. Lighting will be my next topic..
You have the alignment sheet posted somewhere by any chance? Curious as to what figures you're getting on 2" lift w/OEM UCA's.. I personally find Toyota's 'acceptable' range of spec to be a bit too broad for my taste.. but that's just me being picky.
Saker
Senior Member
I don't have it posted.
Toyota engineers, IMHO know what the specs should be.
Maybe they can be tighter....maybe not.
I am quite happy with mine.
I have one tech I like to work on my vehicle and only one....he's been on top of his game so far....
Just sayin'
Do you recall what your caster was at?
Saker
Senior Member
[MENTION=69789]newbian[/MENTION],
Here you go:
Front : Left
Actual 3.4 degrees
__________________
Front : Right
Actual 3.1 degrees
Looks really good with 2" lift and stock UCAs!
TotalAutomotiveLV
New member
Any updates?:snacker:
borfoo3
New member
Alright its been a while since my last post so will share my latest:
Got these URD y-pipes:
URD's "Off-Road" Y Pipe for 2003+ 4Runner
Install notes:
Install took some work, as they didn't quite line up straight. Had to cut the welded bracket (3rd pic from below, that welded piece right before where the 2 pipes meet) to help 'loosen' up the pipes to fit the cats up front, and widen up the bolt holes a bit. Gaskets (+$9.99 extra) were top notch, and flanges sealed good. Overall, they were well constructed I would say.
After install notes:
These ultimately sit higher than the stock setup, and are no longer the lowest point of the vehicle.
Also, should promote better exhaust flow by getting rid of the pre-cats and less restrictive routing (i.e. larger and less bends). Was pleasantly surprised how they woke up that 18" Magnaflow!!
No CEL as of Day 1. Also feels it revs a bit more freely and runs better up top, but that could be entirely just from me gassing it all day..
Love them, but if I were to do it again I might just find a real good exhaust shop to custom make these instead of shipping them half way across the globe to try and make them fit.
Before pics:
After pics:
Got these URD y-pipes:
URD's "Off-Road" Y Pipe for 2003+ 4Runner
Install notes:
Install took some work, as they didn't quite line up straight. Had to cut the welded bracket (3rd pic from below, that welded piece right before where the 2 pipes meet) to help 'loosen' up the pipes to fit the cats up front, and widen up the bolt holes a bit. Gaskets (+$9.99 extra) were top notch, and flanges sealed good. Overall, they were well constructed I would say.
After install notes:
These ultimately sit higher than the stock setup, and are no longer the lowest point of the vehicle.
Also, should promote better exhaust flow by getting rid of the pre-cats and less restrictive routing (i.e. larger and less bends). Was pleasantly surprised how they woke up that 18" Magnaflow!!
No CEL as of Day 1. Also feels it revs a bit more freely and runs better up top, but that could be entirely just from me gassing it all day..
Love them, but if I were to do it again I might just find a real good exhaust shop to custom make these instead of shipping them half way across the globe to try and make them fit.
Before pics:
After pics:
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