Brake bleeding question

[theesotericone]

When bleeding the brakes on our rigs, you need to start with the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder and work your way back. So, the order is:
1) Rear Passenger Side Wheel
2) Rear Driver Side Wheel
3) Front Passenger Side Wheel
4) Front Driver Side Wheel
5) If you have a Load Sensing Proportioning Valve, you do this one last.

Tim, do me a favor and check you FSM about that. My copy shows FL, FR, RL, RR. It goes against the traditional wisdom of doing the farthest point first. When I did the TBU I used the order from the FSM I have. After getting the rears adjusted properly then bleeding my brakes are perfect.

OP, have you tried a gravity bleed yet? If you have the patience they are very effective. With what you are describing though I'd look for a loose connection, crack, or failing o-ring in the master

 

[mtbtim]

Tim, do me a favor and check you FSM about that. My copy shows FL, FR, RL, RR. It goes against the traditional wisdom of doing the farthest point first. When I did the TBU I used the order from the FSM I have. After getting the rears adjusted properly then bleeding my brakes are perfect.

OP, have you tried a gravity bleed yet? If you have the patience they are very effective. With what you are describing though I'd look for a loose connection, crack, or failing o-ring in the master

My 2000 manual says this in bold print, "Notice: Bleed air of the rear brakes first. If front brake is bled first, rear brake air cannot be bled."

It says to repeat the bleed procedure for each wheel and bleed the LSP and BV last.

 

[theesotericone]

My 2000 manual says this in bold print, "Notice: Bleed air of the rear brakes first. If front brake is bled first, rear brake air cannot be bled."

It says to repeat the bleed procedure for each wheel and bleed the LSP and BV last.

Which is exactly the opposite of what the 2002 FSM I downloaded says. In theory it doesn't really matter what the order is as long as all the air gets purged. So, something changed in the brake system in 2002 and possibly 2001 to make Toyota change the order. Mines I 97 and I did it the 2002 way with zero issues. I also made damn sure all the air was out though. Thanks for looking that up.

 

[mtbtim]

Its a 1996 model. No proportioning valve that i know of. When i replaced the axel seals, I disconnected both rear brake line, bone dry. Nothing I do seems to get fluid to those lines. The sound is new. I knew about air in the lines which is why i was bleeding them today. I had the power bleeder going the whole time on each side that I bleed. How is air getting into the system? I would have had more time to mess with it if the previous person hadnt rounded off the bleeder valves. Remember, the speed limit is 20 in the places I drive.

You have some sort of blockage in the lines or maybe a stuck valve. The inner lining part of a rubber line can fail and cause a constriction. I would start from the rear brakes and work your way back until you find brake fluid coming out. Once you know where brake fluid is getting to, you'll narrow down where the blockage is and be able to correct it. There's two rubber lines that drop down to the rear axle that I suspect may be your problem. Fix the blockage issue, bleed the brakes again and I'm guessing your brake problems will be fixed. Ignoring the fact you have no brake fluid to the rear brakes is not a smart move to fixing your braking problems.

 

[mtbtim]

Which is exactly the opposite of what the 2002 FSM I downloaded says. In theory it doesn't really matter what the order is as long as all the air gets purged. So, something changed in the brake system in 2002 and possibly 2001 to make Toyota change the order. Mines I 97 and I did it the 2002 way with zero issues. I also made damn sure all the air was out though. Thanks for looking that up.

Weird. I always thought it was furthest away from the master cylinder and then work your way back. I bled [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] 2002 rear first and several other rigs but I'm not sure on all the years. I think you're right about the order not being a big deal but I'll probably stick with the furthest to closest method anyway.

 

[Buckaroo]

I had the power bleeder going the whole time on each side that I bleed. How is air getting into the system?

When you say "power bleeder", do you mean a vacuum or a pressure bleeder? It is normal to have bubbles in the fluid from a vacuum bleed because the rubber boot that fits over the bleeder does not seal perfectly and draws in outside air at that point....see it all the time and the vacuum bleeder is working perfectly....

Buckaroo

 

[ZionXIX]

When you say "power bleeder", do you mean a vacuum or a pressure bleeder? It is normal to have bubbles in the fluid from a vacuum bleed because the rubber boot that fits over the bleeder does not seal perfectly and draws in outside air at that point....see it all the time and the vacuum bleeder is working perfectly....

Buckaroo

Im using the Motive power bleeder.

 

[Buckaroo]

Im using the Motive power bleeder.

Got it....using a pressure bleeder you shouldn't have any bubbles as long as your brake fluid reservoir doesn't go empty, right?. Understand your concern. I use the compressed air powered Mityvac Vacuum unit....

Buckaroo

 

[4Rosey]

Does the pedal pulse at all? I would try pulling the bleeders individually and cleaning them with brake clean. Once you know all your bleeders are good and if the pedal does not pulse try the bleeding procedure again. if you have the same problem it could be a few things. Calipers could be bad, master cylinder could be bad also, or you could need to have the ABS system bled but you would probably feel some pulsing in the pedal under all braking. Hope this helps.
-Jimmy

 

[weezykid]

I have a Motive Power Bleeder as well. I have air in the line going to the master cylinder cap, but it has never affected my bleeding. I followed the old school route like Tim pointed out with the farther bleeder from the master first.

If you have no fluid coming from your rears try bleeding up the line to see if there is an air pocket or obstruction like Tim said. With the Power Bleeder attached you can crack any line to relieve air and/or fluid. Try at both ends of the line over the rear housing, or at the main brake line going into the wheel cylinders. You should get fluid from any of those.

Without the Power Bleeder attached you could try opening a rear bleeder and then have a friend push the pedal to the floor. You could then see if the pedal pressure will push the fluid out with the line open.

I have seen some people reference that some later model 3rd gens needed to have the ignition key in the ON position. But I did not need to do this on my 96...

 

[weezykid]

Also, have you adjusted the back brakes recently? It may not be a bleeding issue (although you should get fluid when bleeding). If the pedal travel is far before you feel the brakes grab, the rears can be out of adjustment.

The 3rd gens are very sensitive when it comes to rear brake adjustments. I know I have spent a lot of time with mine to get it to feel similar to other vehicles. One click on the adjuster wheel and make a huge difference in pedal feel and stopping power.

 

[ZionXIX]

So I went to the local island auto parts store and they have a rear brake hose with the correct thread pitch and fittings but they only carry the 11in variety. From what I can tell, a 14in hose is need for the rear center line on the 96 model. Can I just buy 2 of them and connect them together?

 

[ZionXIX]

Did some preliminary recon of the brake lines. They look better than I thought they would. I followed the lines from the engine bay to the differential as best as possible. The gas tank blocks a 2 or 3ft portion. From what I can tell, I have a single hard line from the engine bay to the "J" hose as Toyota calls it. That hose connects to a "T" valve and then 2 hard lines are attached directly to the rear cylinders. Definitely no LSPV. I bought a replacement rubber brake line but it's kind of short in my opinion. Can you guys confirm what I'm seeing?

The 1st picture is taken from the inner side of the frame on the driver side.
2nd picture is the top of the "J" hose connecting to the metal line.
Picture 3 is of the "J" hose connecting to the "T" valve junction.

Not the best pictures but the angles I had to be in were ridiculous. Not looking forward to getting at that hose.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[phattyduck]

An 11" line might be the stock length and 14" is used for lifted rigs. You might want to get under there and see how long the stock line is before getting new parts.

There will be no LSPV on an ABS equipped 4Runner. Those were only on the non-ABS equipped 4Runners. Your actual proportioning valve should be somewhere up front, though I don't know exactly where...

It might be worth getting a friend to help and just do a 'normal' brake bleed with one person on the pedal and one person at the caliper/wheel cylinder... clear hose will let you know how you are doing. Oh, and get new bleeders while you are at it.

-Charlie

 

[ZionXIX]

An 11" line might be the stock length and 14" is used for lifted rigs. You might want to get under there and see how long the stock line is before getting new parts.

There will be no LSPV on an ABS equipped 4Runner. Those were only on the non-ABS equipped 4Runners. Your actual proportioning valve should be somewhere up front, though I don't know exactly where...

It might be worth getting a friend to help and just do a 'normal' brake bleed with one person on the pedal and one person at the caliper/wheel cylinder... clear hose will let you know how you are doing. Oh, and get new bleeders while you are at it.

-Charlie

I definitely wasn't going to start any of this without new bleeders.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[mtbtim]

So I went to the local island auto parts store and they have a rear brake hose with the correct thread pitch and fittings but they only carry the 11in variety. From what I can tell, a 14in hose is need for the rear center line on the 96 model. Can I just buy 2 of them and connect them together?

If you had to, yes, you could connect two lines together to make a longer one.

 

[mtbtim]

Did some preliminary recon of the brake lines. They look better than I thought they would. I followed the lines from the engine bay to the differential as best as possible. The gas tank blocks a 2 or 3ft portion. From what I can tell, I have a single hard line from the engine bay to the "J" hose as Toyota calls it. That hose connects to a "T" valve and then 2 hard lines are attached directly to the rear cylinders. Definitely no LSPV. I bought a replacement rubber brake line but it's kind of short in my opinion. Can you guys confirm what I'm seeing?

The 1st picture is taken from the inner side of the frame on the driver side.
2nd picture is the top of the "J" hose connecting to the metal line.
Picture 3 is of the "J" hose connecting to the "T" valve junction.

Hey My Island Dwelling 3rd Gen Brother, I'm glad you're trying to figure out the brake fluid flow problem. Looks like you have a decent amount of rust under there. Before you start cranking on brake line fittings, I'd give everything a good shot of PB Blaster a day or two ahead of time. Also, very important, I recommend using a flare nut wrench for all those connections. You will get a better bite on the fitting and be less prone to stripping them. If you use a regular open end wrench, you're inviting disaster. I doubt you'd want to deal with replacing one of those metal brake lines so set yourself up for success as much as possible before tacking this job.

 

[ZionXIX]

Hey My Island Dwelling 3rd Gen Brother, I'm glad you're trying to figure out the brake fluid flow problem. Looks like you have a decent amount of rust under there. Before you start cranking on brake line fittings, I'd give everything a good shot of PB Blaster a day or two ahead of time. Also, very important, I recommend using a flare nut wrench for all those connections. You will get a better bite on the fitting and be less prone to stripping them. If you use a regular open end wrench, you're inviting disaster. I doubt you'd want to deal with replacing one of those metal brake lines so set yourself up for success as much as possible before tacking this job.

I have become intimately familiar with PB blaster since arriving on this island. Every single nut and bolt has fought me to the bitter end. I have to soak bolts a good 2-3 days before touching them and I still end up drilling some of them out. I've been applying antisieze as I go as well. Just trying to make the next owners life a little more bearable. I haven't seen a good set of flare wrenches in the stores. I may have to look for the next best thing, crows foot socket adapters.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[mtbtim]

I have become intimately familiar with PB blaster since arriving on this island. Every single nut and bolt has fought me to the bitter end. I have to soak bolts a good 2-3 days before touching them and I still end up drilling some of them out. I've been applying antisieze as I go as well. Just trying to make the next owners life a little more bearable. I haven't seen a good set of flare wrenches in the stores. I may have to look for the next best thing, crows foot socket adapters.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

What's it cost to get things shipped to the island? I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive and that's why you shop locally?

 

[ZionXIX]

What's it cost to get things shipped to the island? I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive and that's why you shop locally?

There a few carribean shipping companys that have branches in Miami. I ship things to them and then they forward it to me on the island for a fee and then the island customs authority charges me a 50% import tax on car parts based on the value of the item. I usually end up paying the value of the item in shipping and taxes. At this point I have stopped shipping things and just wait until I fly home for semester breaks. I can usually bring things in my luggage without any trouble.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk