Brake bleeding w/ABS w/o the SST tool? ...

[lelandr]

The FSM says you only need the computer for bleeding when you have touched the master.

BRAKE FLUID: BLEEDING

NOTICE:
Wash off brake fluid immediately if it comes into contact with a painted surface.
If the brake pedal is depressed with the reservoir cap removed, then brake fluid will spatter. HINT:
If any work is done on the brake system or if air in the brake lines is suspected, bleed the air from the system.
When bleeding, keep the amount of the fluid between the Min. and Max. lines on the reservoir.
FILL RESERVOIR WITH BRAKE FLUID
Fluid:
SAE J1703 or FMVSS NO. 116 DOT3
BLEED BRAKE BOOSTER W/ACCUMULATOR PUMP ASSEMBLY HINT: Perform this step only if the brake booster with accumulator pump assembly is removed and/or installed.
(a) Turn the ignition switch OFF, depress the brake pedal 20 times or more to release the pressure from the accumulator.
(b) Fully depress the brake pedal 10 times.
(c) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and start the brake booster pump.
(d) Make sure the pump operates for 8 to 14 seconds.
If the pump does not operate as specified, repeat steps (a) to (c) and recheck the operating time.
BLEED BRAKE LINE



(a) Front brake line
(1) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and wait until the pump motor has stopped.
(2) Connect the vinyl tube to the brake caliper.
(3) Depress the brake pedal several times, then loosen the bleeder plug with the pedal held down.
(4) At the point when the fluid stops coming out, tighten the bleeder plug, then release the brake pedal.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(5) Repeat (3) and (4) until all the air in the fluid has been bled out.
(6) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.



(b) Rear brake line
(1) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and depress the brake pedal.
(2) Connect the vinyl tube to the brake caliper.
(3) Loosen the bleeder plug and release air.
HINT: Brake fluid is sent through the pump, so keep the brake pedal depressed until the air is completely bled out.
(4) When the air is completely bled out of the brake fluid through the bleeder plug, tighten the bleeder plug.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(5) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.

Revising an old thread...

If I bleed in this way (I'm supplementing with a Motive), does it also cycle the old fluid out of the ABS system? With BMWs (yea, I'm one of those guys), you pump the brake pedal 12x with the ignition on, but not running, and it tells the ABS controller to open the servos to flush the system (this works for my 88 & 06).

I'm changing from whatever is in there now (suspect OE Toyota) for low viscosity ATE DOT 4 for reasons of convenience (other cars use it).

Thanks from the Noob.

 

[earthrealm]

The FSM says you only need the computer for bleeding when you have touched the master.

BRAKE FLUID: BLEEDING

NOTICE:
Wash off brake fluid immediately if it comes into contact with a painted surface.
If the brake pedal is depressed with the reservoir cap removed, then brake fluid will spatter. HINT:
If any work is done on the brake system or if air in the brake lines is suspected, bleed the air from the system.
When bleeding, keep the amount of the fluid between the Min. and Max. lines on the reservoir.
FILL RESERVOIR WITH BRAKE FLUID
Fluid:
SAE J1703 or FMVSS NO. 116 DOT3
BLEED BRAKE BOOSTER W/ACCUMULATOR PUMP ASSEMBLY HINT: Perform this step only if the brake booster with accumulator pump assembly is removed and/or installed.
(a) Turn the ignition switch OFF, depress the brake pedal 20 times or more to release the pressure from the accumulator.
(b) Fully depress the brake pedal 10 times.
(c) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and start the brake booster pump.
(d) Make sure the pump operates for 8 to 14 seconds.
If the pump does not operate as specified, repeat steps (a) to (c) and recheck the operating time.
BLEED BRAKE LINE



(a) Front brake line
(1) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and wait until the pump motor has stopped.
(2) Connect the vinyl tube to the brake caliper.
(3) Depress the brake pedal several times, then loosen the bleeder plug with the pedal held down.
(4) At the point when the fluid stops coming out, tighten the bleeder plug, then release the brake pedal.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(5) Repeat (3) and (4) until all the air in the fluid has been bled out.
(6) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.



(b) Rear brake line
(1) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and depress the brake pedal.
(2) Connect the vinyl tube to the brake caliper.
(3) Loosen the bleeder plug and release air.
HINT: Brake fluid is sent through the pump, so keep the brake pedal depressed until the air is completely bled out.
(4) When the air is completely bled out of the brake fluid through the bleeder plug, tighten the bleeder plug.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(5) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.
BLEED MASTER CYLINDER SOLENOID HINT: Perform this step only if the master cylinder solenoid is removed and/or installed.
(a) Connect the Techstream to the DLC3.
(b) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
(c) Select "Active Test" mode on the Techstream.
(d) Connect the vinyl tube to the rear brake caliper.
(e) Loosen the bleeder plug.
(f) Select "TRAC Solenoid (SRMF & SRMR)" to drive the solenoids and bleed air from the rear brake caliper.
NOTICE: Do not depress the brake pedal.
HINT:
Brake fluid is sent through the pump.
To protect the solenoids, the Techstream turns OFF automatically 2 seconds after every solenoid has been turned ON.
(g) Repeat step (f) until all the air in the brake fluid is bled out.
(h) When the air is completely bled out of the brake fluid through the bleeder plug, tighten the bleeder plug.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(i) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.
(j) Turn the ignition switch OFF.
(k) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
(l) Clear DTC See: Antilock Brakes / Traction Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Reading and Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes.

is there any video on doing this?,,,,, my mechanic feels nothing is wrong with my brakes n isnt willing to do the bleeding, so i dont want 2 force the issue,,,,, just thinking of doing it myself

 

[bob3dsf]

speedbleeders

I'll play along.... and add...

Anyone have speedbleeders (The bleeder nipples with the ball valve inside to allow you to do this by yourself)?

I bought a set but haven't installed them. Waiting until I need to replace the pads, figuring I'd just do it then when its up on jacks and have the wheels off.

 

[Ask10]

Revising an old thread...

If I bleed in this way (I'm supplementing with a Motive), does it also cycle the old fluid out of the ABS system?

I'd like to know this too.

 

[Code2]

Or you can use what we use on motorcycles and use a vacuum crack the bleeder open suck the air out till you have fluid only close and done

 

[2002_thundercloud]

Spongy pedal

Two years ago I did a tundra 231 rotor and caliper upgrade and used good stuff. I have bled the system at least three times and still, to get good pedal feel, have to give the pedal a light pre-pump before the pedal feels "just right". I don't buy into the caliper fluid volume difference argument I read somewhere because the piston diameter between the 4Runner and tundra calipers is the same and the diameter of the pistons and their travel during brake application is what accounts for fluid volume, right?.... Think about it for a second...The caliper switch should have no impact on pedal travel.

I believe some air has made its way up to a coupler between the MC and calipers and will not flush out down to the calipers using the old fashioned pedal bleed method OR some air has made its way up to the ABS VSC solenoid area and again, the old fashioned pedal bleed method can't remove it.

Now that you have read that, let me restate....VERY Consistently, a light quick primer pump of the pedal produces a PERFECT feeling brake pedal. Without that little primer, the pedal is awkward with very little feedback, as if the rears are working harder than the front.

I asked my local Toyota dealer to bleed them per the TSM and the service manager said they "don't do that" and offered no other help.

So the question: can the clever garage mechanic perform a similar bleed procedure where the ABS / VSC solenoids are activated so that air is pushed to and out of the caliper without expensive Toyota tools?

Thanks,
Todd

 

[03blkrunner]

I've owned my 03 4runner limited for about 7 years now.
Recently my wife complained that her brakes felt funny. I drove it and the pedal was almost at the floor before i got any brake.

Pull the brakes apart and found 1 frozen piston on both front calipers and pretty worn pads front and rear. I decided to do new front calipers, rotors front and rear, and pads front and rear.

All went smooth until bleeding. With ignition key in the on position, I bleed all 4 brakes. I didnt get any air in the rear, and obviously it took a few times to get un-airated fluid.
With the ignition on the pedal feels very firm. I drop it down off the lift and go to back out and i loose all pedal. So i try rebleeding the whole system, same thing firm pedal until i start up and drive away.
I notice that i hear a pressurized air around coming from the rear bleeder nipples when they are open. Whats that all about?
What am i missing? It seems to me that there is some special procedure to bleeding these.

Did you ever figure this out? I've been searching because I have the exact same issue. I went through and did a total brake replacement (calipers, rotors, pads, and flex lines) last weekend. Followed FSM and still have soft pedal. I too noticed the air sound when doing the rear brakes. I would have the wife pump and when I would open the bleeder just fluid came out but I heard that noise too. I was wondering if I'm just closing the bleeder too soon and every time she pumps after it is just sucking the air back up to the MC. I'm going to try and leave the bleeder open next for longer to see if that noise is the air in the line.

Or does anyone else have any recommendations!? I've bled brakes on many cars but never one with an actuator like this.

Thanks.

 

[chethro]

I wonder if it is possible to just change out the complete master cylinder assembly and go to a vacuum based assembly. Sure you wouldn't have abs anymore but what are the other problems one might encounter.

 

[earthrealm]

Did you ever figure this out? I've been searching because I have the exact same issue. I went through and did a total brake replacement (calipers, rotors, pads, and flex lines) last weekend. Followed FSM and still have soft pedal. I too noticed the air sound when doing the rear brakes. I would have the wife pump and when I would open the bleeder just fluid came out but I heard that noise too. I was wondering if I'm just closing the bleeder too soon and every time she pumps after it is just sucking the air back up to the MC. I'm going to try and leave the bleeder open next for longer to see if that noise is the air in the line.

Or does anyone else have any recommendations!? I've bled brakes on many cars but never one with an actuator like this.

Thanks.

DID YOU EVER get any closure on this issue?

 

[03blkrunner]

DID YOU EVER get any closure on this issue?

Not entirely.

I again bled the rear brakes but this time had the truck parked down my driveway which has a good slope (make the air travel to the rear brakes) and left the bleeder open longer even when hearing the air noise. This helped some but overall the pedal still feels too soft (I do wonder since this is not my daily driver if I'm just comparing it to my new car). Like 2002_thundercloud, if I give it a little primer pump before braking it feels much better.

I think when I take it in to have the tires swapped I will have them try to cycle the actuators and see if that fixes the issue.

 

[earthrealm]

[MENTION=23016]03blkrunner[/MENTION]

pls help me do the following:
turn your ignition on, and observe the pump for 1 to 2 mins, if it doent kick in, you may depress the brake pedal, and observe if the pump will kick in..if it does kick in...then good...leave it again for 1 to 7mins, and see if it will kick in again by itself without you engaging the brake...[you do all this with the ignition on, and car off]

my theory is that this brake problem is caused by either a leak in the system, or air in the system. am leaning more towards a leak in the system.......cos in mine, when the truck sits overnight, and you turn the ignition on...the ab pump kicks in for bout 20secs to represuurize the system , i wonder why it does this...where did the pressure in the system go within the night?

 

[m85476585]

[MENTION=78511]earthrealm[/MENTION]

Hopefully you got your brake issues resolved. If not, I put up a DIY for bleeding using a scan tool. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/189108-diy-brake-fluid-change-bleed-using-scan-tool.html

 

[earthrealm]

not yet, bought a used mc unit from a forum memeber, will likely pick it up today and install over the weekend.
thanks for the link........very helpful!

 

[03blkrunner]

[MENTION=78511]earthrealm[/MENTION]

2 things:

First, sorry for not getting back to you earlier. I kept thinking the next time I go out to the truck I would do what you asked, I always forgot! I didn't notice any issue with the pump running more often than normal and fluid levels are good.

Second, with the weather we've had in Kentucky over the last week I've been driving the 4Runner instead of my DD. I remembered on my old Blazer that one way to bleed ABS was to make sure it cycled so I went out and did some hard braking in the snow to make sure the ABS kicked on. This seemed to have helped firm it up a little bit though I am also thinking that since I no longer DD the 4Runner that maybe some of what I am thinking is soft brake is just really how it normally feels because it is braking just fine even though I think it should have a little firmer feel.

Not sure that the second one helps you any but hopefully you found a solution!

 

[toyo]

There's several different ways to bleed the air from the system. Also, it depends on why you are having to bleed them.
If you are solo, meaning by yourself, there's 2 ways of doing it that work very well.
1st method is you can pump the pedal about 5 to 10 times. Once you are pumped, take a short pole or some sort and put it between your pedal and the seat cushion. Starting at the pass/rear open the bleeder valve until you see fluid. Once the fluid stops moving close it up. Put a clear hose on the bleeder valve so you can see the fluid better and not make such a mess.
Do this at least 2 times per caliper. Always check your fluid level!

The other method is to get a clean and empty bottle and fill with fresh brake fluid. Run your clear tube from the caliper down INTO the bottle with brake fluid. Open the bleeder valve and pump the brake pedal. The bubbles/air will purge into the bottle and only suck in fluid.

These methods have always worked for me over the years if I am by myself. I only use the TS now on any Toyota/Lexus/Scion I have to work on. So flipping simple.

 

[blackfc3s]

just replaced a sticky caliper yesterday. I used this as I was one manning it. Brakes are fine. Good pedal feel.

One Man Brake Bleeder Kit

I also have the suction pump one but that is not as good as the one listed above.

 

[toyo]

just replaced a sticky caliper yesterday. I used this as I was one manning it. Brakes are fine. Good pedal feel.

One Man Brake Bleeder Kit

I also have the suction pump one but that is not as good as the one listed above.

That's the same basic design as what I had suggested as well. Those work pretty good as well.

 

[blackfc3s]

yep. Just wanted to give everyone an option if they didn't want to get a hose and an old 20oz pepsi bottle.

 

[Ju1cE82]

Replaced all four calipers on my new rig seem to been having a few issues.

First question: @ 185K do I need to replace brake hoses? If this was a domestic vehicle I would, if it was European I wouldn't because old OE is better than new aftermarket. But this is my first Asian vehicle and curious what the high mileagers are doing.

On to the real problem. Issues with replacing the brakes system sat drained and open overnight, start with conventional bleeding techniques (gravity, vac, buddy of course always following RR,LR,RF,LF) nothing out of the backs except the little bit of gravity and vac and of course pedal sucks. Get on-line read this thread of course much better now.

I haven't had a chance to drive yet (stupid Mazda stuck in the bay behind me) but the pedal feels a little low, but I am new to the truck. I did the 20 pedal strokes, key on check pun run time ~6sec. Sweet. But ever time I press the pedal the pumps runs for 2 sec. Is this normal or indicate there is still air somewhere?

Excuse the newb if its normal :bounce:

 

[Atlanta_man]

I followed the (Toyota recommended) bleeding directions found somewhere on this forum. Rears are super easy using the built in brake booster pump to do the work. And you do them first.