Brake Light on in Cluster

[Tyler James Inc]

Anyone happen to know if the brake light in the cluster is related to the VSC/TRAC/ABS systems on '01/'02 rigs?
As far as I can find, it should only be illuminated if the e-brake is applied, or if the reservoir is low on fluid(or the float is stuck).
I tested my e-brake switch, and it's working as it should.
I un-plugged the reservoir float switch- light stays on. I jumpered the float switch- light stays on.
My ABS is not functioning because I have non-ABS front knuckles; I have no front wheel speed sensors.
My VSC/TRAC is not functioning because the ECU I am using is from a Tacoma, and those weren't equipped with the traction systems.
I'd love my e-brake light to function with the e-brake and res float- as it should- and I'm tired of it being on all the time.
Thanks for any help!

I have pulled my ABS light since that pic BTW [emoji12]

 

[gamefreakgc]

I think you've made too many changes for us to help diagnose. There is a way to jump the diagnostic terminal to get the ABS to flash the code like an old OBD-I car, but you'll need to put the bulb back in to do that.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Lol [MENTION=115347]gamefreakgc[/MENTION]
It's not even affected by the changes, really. May be caused by them, but I haven't done anything that changes the function of the systems- only disabled them. If you know whether the brake light in the cluster is tied to the VSC/TRAC system, you could answer my question easily [emoji6]

 

[gamefreakgc]

Lol [MENTION=115347]gamefreakgc[/MENTION]
It's not even affected by the changes, really. May be caused by them, but I haven't done anything that changes the function of the systems- only disabled them. If you know whether the brake light in the cluster is tied to the VSC/TRAC system, you could answer my question easily [emoji6]

Yes, it all goes to the same ECU in 01-02's. So if you've disabled part of it then it's likely the ABS function will not work properly.

If you can jump the code, you might have a clue as to why it's not working but you may not be able to fix it, especially since you don't have the front ABS sensors.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Wait, what all goes to the same ECU?
And what are you referring to when you say "...why it's not working..."? Why what isn't working?

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Bump, in case anyone- that didn't see it before- happens to know!

 

[96RedRunner]

Tyler, the E-brake light is on because of the changes you've made. Didn't the new runner start out with Trac/VSC ABS module? With new style Master Cylinder correct. The Trac/VSC ABS module is like a 100 leg octopus it gets inputs from lots of things and gives outputs to lots of things and main ECU. Your best bet would be to wire E-brake on a simple stand alone circuit.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Tyler, the E-brake light is on because of the changes you've made. Didn't the new runner start out with Trac/VSC ABS module? With new style Master Cylinder correct. The Trac/VSC ABS module is like a 100 leg octopus it gets inputs from lots of things and gives outputs to lots of things and main ECU. Your best bet would be to wire E-brake on a simple stand alone circuit.

Okay, so you know- for absolute certain- the VSC/ABS/TRAC systems use the brake light on the dash? What does the system use it for? In what circumstance does it illuminate?
Oh, trust me- I am well aware of the octopus. I still have it, as the speedo(based off the ABS wheel speed sensors) and brake booster(integrated into the VSC/TRAC system) will not work without it.
No power brakes and speedo is not for me [emoji12]

 

[96RedRunner]

For certain the module uses brake light when there is a module failure, personal experience. Failure is not your problem with speedo and odo working. what else system uses light for I can't answer. Module is not getting needed inputs in my eyes.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Okay, perfect. All I wanted was someone with personal experience with- or knowledge about- the brake light being tied to the octopus.

Failure is not your problem with speedo and odo working.

I don't know exactly what you're saying, but my speedo and ODO both work.

 

[Magmotor]

Do you have DRL??? the drl main relay is wired in parallel to your Brake Parking Switch. It may be finding a ground thu that and leaving the light on, constantly. If you have it, unplug the connector on the drl main relay and see if the light goes out. If it does, pull your parking brake and see if the light goes on. If it does at least you know where the light is finding its ground all the time. If it doesn't then its finding ground thru that ecu you put in since you eliminated the fluid level float switch. just my .02...luck.!!

 

[96RedRunner]

I don't know exactly what you're saying, but my speedo and ODO both work.

End of Febuary I bought my 01 with all indicators for a failed Trac module. Indicators are: Brake light on, ABS light on, Trac off on, VSC off on, Speedo and Odo not working, P0500 code, speed sensor code. Since your speedo odo work your module does not have a total failure condition. And I believe you mentioned your brakes work fine, with failed module my 01's brakes worked as designed, (fail safe mode)
With what you have working as it should, if you trick system into seeing the missing speed sensors, I bet your remaining (ABS & brake light) indicators will turn off. Think along the lines of what the module is not seeing (inputs) for a solution.

 

[St Runner]

I had all the lights on when I changed the rear axle out in my 2001. Speedo and tach worked fine. Lights on were ABS, Brake, VSC/Trac. No Engine codes. Tried to read the ABS codes but it would not. Did the zero point calibration and the ABS and Brake light went off. Still have the VSC/TRAC lights on. The brake light is tied in there somehow. Try to calibrate it and see what happens, it is pretty easy at least

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Awesome, thanks guys.
Posting this in case it helps someone else out in the future- plus, I still need help figuring this out.
I realized looking at the EWD might help me figure out what I gotta do to trick it. Sometimes I just need to use my brain I guess.
You can see how the parking brake SW actually runs straight to the VSC ECU, and then the VSC decides when it feels like letting the park brake turn the light off or not.

The park brake also tells the DRL when to turn on, but that's irrelevant here.
The brake res low warning SW has its own lead straight to the combo meter, so that's also not part of the equation.
What I need to figure out is this:
What the hell is represented by the square in the combo meter? I pulled the orange from the VSC, and the brake light stayed on, so it's not as easy as I was hoping.

I checked voltage on the orange wire(the wire that goes from the VSC to the brake light on the dash), and it has +12v to ground. I'm wondering if the square represents a normally closed relay, and if I send Orange to ground, it will break the circuit. The mystery square can be seen below-

All that being said- my park brake will no longer activate the light unless I rewire SOMETHING. The simplest solution would probably be putting it in parallel with the low res SW- since it goes straight to the combo meter.

 

[St Runner]

Did you try the zero point calibration? It seemed to me that it was also a reset of sorts, since you cant clear it with the battery disconnect or the ecu. Toyota must have some way of resetting the system. I had high fluid in the reviser and changed out the front pads but the brake light did not go out until the zero point. Has not come on since

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Did you try the zero point calibration?
I had high fluid in the reviser and changed out the front pads but the brake light did not go out until the zero point. Has not come on since

Oh, now that's super weird. As far as the EWD shows, the low fluid level is completely unrelated to the VSC system! [emoji24]
I didn't try the zero point, simply because I am in the process of eliminating the ABS/VSC/TRAC ECU, so I am- ultimately- just trying to figure out what I need to do to make everything work right without it.
Made my VSS harness last night, so I'm one step closer to ditching the ECU!

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Aright, for anyone else that may run into this- you can shut your brake light off by grounding the orange wire(in post #14 above).
Since your e-brake runs through the VSC ECU, the light will no longer be activated by raising the lever.
There are a couple options to "fix" that, and I haven't decided which route I am taking on that. It all depends on what wires run where, and which way will work the cleanest.
Since the switch "provides" ground when the lever is lifted- and the light goes OFF when the orange is grounded- you can't just tie the red-white with the orange. It would work opposite as how it should!
I think the best/simplest way is going to be to tie the red-white(parking brake wire) in with the green-white(brake res low warning wire).

 

[4Reak Show]

Hey man. So we use Mitchell for our service info, and they take it from the manufacturer direct but they change it to make it easier sometimes. Anyway, I found something interesting. In the "instrument cluster" section it looked almost identical to the one you have posted, showing a little box and only an orange wire coming off.

HOWEVER, in the "ABS" section it shows this

If you look, the cluster is represented at the top, and shows a different box, this time a rectangle, that is shared with the VSC light. It also shows a second wire (labeled WA) at the computer, on a different connector, pin #1, black/blue stripe.

Also, the VSC ECM showed 2 different Orange wires so make sure you're plucking the right one. (You could also pull the cluster and pull the wire there to be CERTAIN it's correct. )

I would try and pull that second wire first (blk/blu, pin #1, different connector) at the ECM as well and see what you get.

I'm willing to guess the "box/rectangle" is either a solid state device or a diode type deal built into the circuit board.

At any rate, I'd bet plucking that second wire would turn your light off and leave the e brake and resi operational.

Let us know and good luck

 

[pavelvoivoda]

Hello guys, hello Tyler James, (I read you removed the VSC already due to the brake light being on, or maybe for a different reason)

Digging around, i found some more info about what else turns on the parking brake light when you have the VSC module in the car. The following service manual diagram lists the light to be turned ON due to a malfunction in the EBD which stands for Electronic Brake Force Distribution which is basically the skid control system/VSC. The combination meter little square box in the diagram, isn't really of any importance, it just means that the the circuit passes thru the PCB as there is just bulb there.

Also, from an old thread on a different forum, from a 2003 i think, I read that someone is trying to add an trac off switch to have the option to disable the VSC. (the switch is only added to a terminal on the skid control ECU which provides ground, and the ECU turns the VSC OFF.

Toyota lists 4 steps to test to find why the light is on in the following order:
1. Check parking brake switch circuit - which is basically the hand brake switch and wire to the VSC ECU. If OK...
2. Check brake fluid level warning switch circuit. If also OK...
3. Is DTC output for ABS? - they say to repair circuit indicated by output code. If no DTC output,...
4. Check brake warning light - to check for a short to ground from elsewhere. If also OK...
5. Check and replace skid control ECU.

On the other forum, someone mentioned that the brake light turns on to signify a defect in the skid ECU system, but can also mean that it's just not getting all the signals from wherever it needs them from, because something is unplugged. Manually disabling Active TRAC (traction control) on a '01 4Runner 4x4 - 4x4Wire TrailTalk

I think that if Toyota recommends to check for ABS codes, then it may be somehow tide with the brake light...
Tyler I remember reading that you had removed the front ABS sensors or something like that. It may have been from that. Who knows.
I read that usually the ABS light will turn ON to signify that there is a problem with the ABS.

Anyway, I want to add VSC to my diesel 4Runner, but I am not sure if it is possible at all as I have no ECU that controls the engine. I did install the VF3AM transfer and because it is relatively independent from the engine, it works fine and greatly improves highway speed cruising. But the VSC has a few wires that go to the engine ECU...and is connected with the auto tranny...and ABS...and I still have yet to figure out stuff.
Oh well hope this helps...