Brake question?

[poleclimber63]

I was talking to a workmate last week and I told him about my Tundra brake upgrade and doing the disc brake upgrade on my sons' Mitsubishi Eclipse. We discussed the why's and how's etc. and he mentioned what he did to his 01' Dodge, a few years back, to settle down his rear end swing. His truck has drum brakes (like our 4Runners) and he swapped out his wheel cylinders to ones with a 20-30% larger diameter. He says it really stabilized the rear providing significantly more braking response to the rear. Believe it or not he used 94' Chevy 1 ton wheel cylinders on his 01' Dodge 3/4 ton Cummins with only a minor brake line mod without having to fool with the proportioning valve.:artist:

I've been trolling from time to time on this forum looking for someone trying a disc brake swap. The only one I found that had any success required significant fabbing and modification to make it work. So I'll throw it out there: has anyone tried using a larger wheel cylinder to increase braking response?? I know our rear drum brakes aren't the best design and can be problematic, but it might improve he braking characteristics on loose gravel and towing. I haven't put any research into this idea, so forgive me if I've totally missed something!!:behindsofa:

 

[nevada]

I was talking to a workmate last week and I told him about my Tundra brake upgrade and doing the disc brake upgrade on my sons' Mitsubishi Eclipse. We discussed the why's and how's etc. and he mentioned what he did to his 01' Dodge, a few years back, to settle down his rear end swing. His truck has drum brakes (like our 4Runners) and he swapped out his wheel cylinders to ones with a 20-30% larger diameter. He says it really stabilized the rear providing significantly more braking response to the rear. Believe it or not he used 94' Chevy 1 ton wheel cylinders on his 01' Dodge 3/4 ton Cummins with only a minor brake line mod without having to fool with the proportioning valve.:artist:

I've been trolling from time to time on this forum looking for someone trying a disc brake swap. The only one I found that had any success required significant fabbing and modification to make it work. So I'll throw it out there: has anyone tried using a larger wheel cylinder to increase braking response?? I know our rear drum brakes aren't the best design and can be problematic, but it might improve he braking characteristics on loose gravel and towing. I haven't put any research into this idea, so forgive me if I've totally missed something!!:behindsofa:

I don't have much personal experience with a 3rd gen. I have done front brakes, and test drives on a few, the brakes felt fine to me.

im not sure about upping the wheel cylinder bore. I would suspect the manufacturer has them set to the proper size. I think that would ba asking for trouble...


my recommendation would be to make sure the wheel cylinders are working correctly. if they are in question, just replace them. also make sure the shoes are adjusted up properly.
adjustment is very important in how well the rear brakes work, and how the pedal feels.

with properly working drum brakes, that rig should stop very well.

 

[JayRolla]

I was talking to a workmate last week and I told him about my Tundra brake upgrade and doing the disc brake upgrade on my sons' Mitsubishi Eclipse. We discussed the why's and how's etc. and he mentioned what he did to his 01' Dodge, a few years back, to settle down his rear end swing. His truck has drum brakes (like our 4Runners) and he swapped out his wheel cylinders to ones with a 20-30% larger diameter. He says it really stabilized the rear providing significantly more braking response to the rear. Believe it or not he used 94' Chevy 1 ton wheel cylinders on his 01' Dodge 3/4 ton Cummins with only a minor brake line mod without having to fool with the proportioning valve.:artist:

I've been trolling from time to time on this forum looking for someone trying a disc brake swap. The only one I found that had any success required significant fabbing and modification to make it work. So I'll throw it out there: has anyone tried using a larger wheel cylinder to increase braking response?? I know our rear drum brakes aren't the best design and can be problematic, but it might improve he braking characteristics on loose gravel and towing. I haven't put any research into this idea, so forgive me if I've totally missed something!!:behindsofa:

Not sure on your rear brake upgrade, but the way this stuff gets done is people just diving in and trying. Ive actually heard you can swap the older Lexus ES sedan front brakes onto our trucks also and the calipers are aluminum. Never seen it on the forums, just a local offroad shop talking about it. So just research, find something for us all to upgrade!!

Love them old mitsubishi's!! Had one I swapped over the larger 2 piston OEM calipers, then added some 3000gt brakes. Fun stuff!

 

[poleclimber63]

I don't have much personal experience with a 3rd gen. I have done front brakes, and test drives on a few, the brakes felt fine to me.

im not sure about upping the wheel cylinder bore. I would suspect the manufacturer has them set to the proper size. I think that would ba asking for trouble...


my recommendation would be to make sure the wheel cylinders are working correctly. if they are in question, just replace them. also make sure the shoes are adjusted up properly.
adjustment is very important in how well the rear brakes work, and how the pedal feels.

with properly working drum brakes, that rig should stop very well.

Thanks for the response.
If these 3rd gen 4Runners have one performance issue, it's braking. If you tow any loads approaching reasonable limits(like me), you will have either experienced brake fade and/or rotor warping(like me). These trucks go through front brakes. The Tundra brake upgrade alleviates this problem. The rears aren't much better. Lots of threads here about "rear brakes won't release" etc. Ever considered why the rear pads never need replacing? answer: they don't do much!! My braking system works as designed, but I created this thread to speculate if its possible to improve rear brake response without a massive investment!

This would be my dream upgrade: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/106636-rear-disk-brake-conversion-pt-1-a.html

This isn't an issue with the 4th gen, as they finally provided 4 wheel discs...

 

[poleclimber63]

Not sure on your rear brake upgrade, but the way this stuff gets done is people just diving in and trying. Ive actually heard you can swap the older Lexus ES sedan front brakes onto our trucks also and the calipers are aluminum. Never seen it on the forums, just a local offroad shop talking about it. So just research, find something for us all to upgrade!!

Love them old mitsubishi's!! Had one I swapped over the larger 2 piston OEM calipers, then added some 3000gt brakes. Fun stuff!

Thanks for your response--- I've followed many of your posts over the years and have great respect for your contributions!!:thumb3:

I'd love to try this: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/106636-rear-disk-brake-conversion-pt-1-a.html

...but its a real project to tackle!

I've been helping my son with his 03' Eclipse GS since he bought it last Fall. We've done a fair bit to it: Steering fluid cooler, POR15 rust remediation, TB/WP, front end body work including repairing the front bumper cover (pain!), replacing the rear suspension (with drum brakes) and swapping it with a GT setup including new bushings and rear disc brakes( I was able to make a case to my wife why I needed a press! Score!), and last weekend, rebuilding the front brakes. We could have gone bigger but that would necessitate replacing the rims--- its like peeling an onion, at that point--- one thing leads to another. When we did the front brakes, I was surprised to find both front calipers were frozen, so we pulled them off and rebuilt them. I really enjoyed helping him, I told my wife this and said I'd like to buy a project car! She freaked and told me we have no room, and if I wanted to work on something, I should spend that time and money on my truck!! SCORE!

I heard it from the boss, maybe its time I try some experimentation!

 

[nevada]

Thanks for the response.
If these 3rd gen 4Runners have one performance issue, it's braking. If you tow any loads approaching reasonable limits(like me), you will have either experienced brake fade and/or rotor warping(like me). These trucks go through front brakes. The Tundra brake upgrade alleviates this problem. The rears aren't much better. Lots of threads here about "rear brakes won't release" etc. Ever considered why the rear pads never need replacing? answer: they don't do much!! My braking system works as designed, but I created this thread to speculate if its possible to improve rear brake response without a massive investment!

This would be my dream upgrade: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/106636-rear-disk-brake-conversion-pt-1-a.html

This isn't an issue with the 4th gen, as they finally provided 4 wheel discs...

I still believe the issue is due to improperly adjusted rear brakes. you change things when you start swapping parts, the TBU for example.
I guess I would have to spend a bit more time driving a 3rd gen, but all of them that I have worked on, stopped great when I was done. they were all running a stock brake configuration.


im not sure what the 4th gen has to do with anything, we are both talking about 3rds.
I do this daily, 9 times out of 10 if a disc/drum vehicle is not stopping well, the rear brakes are the issue. usually out of adjustment, or leaking/stuck wheel cylinders.


but apparently someone somewhere decided there was a need to throw tundra parts on, "because they fit", instead of actually addressing the real problem. this has then led to the rear brakes not matching up well.




I noticed this thread this morning. coincidence? not sure, but maybe it will help you, as its basically what you were asking.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/217456-rear-brake-upgrade.html

 

[3bears]

I have properly adjusted and working rear brakes
But I will be doing the tundra upgrade on the fronts

While I have not yet warped a set of rotors, but the thin 3rd gen rotors are known to warp with heavy use, esp if towing, this is often listed as one of the reasons people up grade to the tundra system. More brake pad, thicker rotors

I do a lot of mountain driving ( I live in the high mountains) and have to use my brakes a lot

and with all the rubber necked tourists that drive these roads up here in the summer who panic stop because they see a dear or a stream or a chipmunk, I want all the stopping power I can get
(Ive already added loud horns to get their attention)

 

[poleclimber63]

I have properly adjusted and working rear brakes
But I will be doing the tundra upgrade on the fronts

While I have not yet warped a set of rotors, but the thin 3rd gen rotors are known to warp with heavy use, esp if towing, this is often listed as one of the reasons people up grade to the tundra system. More brake pad, thicker rotors

I do a lot of mountain driving ( I live in the high mountains) and have to use my brakes a lot

and with all the rubber necked tourists that drive these roads up here in the summer who panic stop because they see a dear or a stream or a chipmunk, I want all the stopping power I can get
(Ive already added loud horns to get their attention)

Absolutely! I live in the mountains as well, and I tow, and I love the braking response after I did the upgrade! Totally worth it, you won't regret it!

 

[poleclimber63]

I still believe the issue is due to improperly adjusted rear brakes. you change things when you start swapping parts, the TBU for example.
I guess I would have to spend a bit more time driving a 3rd gen, but all of them that I have worked on, stopped great when I was done. they were all running a stock brake configuration.


im not sure what the 4th gen has to do with anything, we are both talking about 3rds.
I do this daily, 9 times out of 10 if a disc/drum vehicle is not stopping well, the rear brakes are the issue. usually out of adjustment, or leaking/stuck wheel cylinders.


but apparently someone somewhere decided there was a need to throw tundra parts on, "because they fit", instead of actually addressing the real problem. this has then led to the rear brakes not matching up well.




I noticed this thread this morning. coincidence? not sure, but maybe it will help you, as its basically what you were asking.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/217456-rear-brake-upgrade.html

Thanks for the link, very interesting!

Sorry!! I should have explained my comment about 4th gens.... all gens after 3rd, have 4 wheel discs, which negates this entire discussion.