Brakes pulling to both sides

[sam.basye]

The majority of the time my brakes pull to the left, but occasionally they will pull to the left, then the right (not straighten) with decent braking action and sometimes they will pull slightly to the right. I can roll at about 1-2mph and pressing the brake pedal moves the steering wheel an inch or two to the left, then upon releasing the brake, it centers.

It started doing this with stock brakes, I then upgraded to a new set of tundra 231 calipers, pads, and rotors. The problem persisted and they were all replaced with new calipers, pads, and rotors a second time. Entire system has been properly bled numerous times, which usually makes the problem better, but not fixed. It’s never been run dry.


I have noticed a very small amount of brake fluid at the seam of both sets of Left 231 calipers like it’s forcing its way out the top of the caliper on the one side. Tightened and re-bled with no change.

LBJ’s, inner and outer tie rods are new

Brake pedal could be better. Initially it feels fine, then gets a little softer, then normal towards the end. Stops fine, but I feel like it could stop a little shorter.

Considering it pulls both directions, does it lead to a bad master cylinder or booster?

Thanks!

 

[MarkamisPrime]

With the TBU it is normal for a softer feel on the brake pedal.
Kinda sounds like you could have a bad brake line/lines.
They are rubber and older, a collapsed brake line could be possible. Especially if you have changed the calipers already.
Might as well go steel braided.

 

[sam.basye]

Thanks, Markamis. Seems like a probable cause being 20 year old rubber..
The brakes bleed fine so they aren’t completely blocked, but it’s sure irritating. Lol

Anyone know if a bad master cylinder can pump different amounts into each line or would both brakes suck equally?
Come to think of it. I think there’s been a pedal issue since I first got it 4 years ago. Never could get it firm so I got a new master cylinder and it didn’t help much.

 

[LittleCaesar]

If the fluid gets old and absorbs too much water they will internally corrode. I’d replace all three lines, gravity bleed the system, then bleed with the engine running if need be.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Thanks, Markamis. Seems like a probable cause being 20 year old rubber..
The brakes bleed fine so they aren’t completely blocked, but it’s sure irritating. Lol

Anyone know if a bad master cylinder can pump different amounts into each line or would both brakes suck equally?
Come to think of it. I think there’s been a pedal issue since I first got it 4 years ago. Never could get it firm so I got a new master cylinder and it didn’t help much.

If you have ABS the module could contribute to a pull, but not a regular Master. Also, Unequal Caster in your alignment can cause this, but not to both sides.

 

[Cree]

Check your OTE connections at the spindles.

 

[St Runner]

Also check your control arm bushings. Slop in those bushings will make it pull in either direction. Usually the lower control arm goes first.

 

[DaMonkey]

.. Also, Unequal Caster in your alignment can cause this, but not to both sides.

This is where I would start.

Actually, *lack* of caster can do this to both sides, but I would start with alignment and/or tire wear.

 

[sam.basye]

I’ll put new brake lines and LCA bushings on the short list. New UCA’s are already on that list since the lift a few months ago.

New 265/75/16 tires, 5100’s and rear 890’s plus alignment as of May, but the problem started prior to that.

Here’s the alignment sheet

Here’s all 4 of the lower control arm ‘bushings’.
The upper and lower control arm bushings are all original I’m sure with almost 300k on them. Appears they, or the lack there of, might be the culprit. Lol

RR

RF

LF

LR

OTE’s look good at the spindles.


Fun, somewhat unrelated, fact... a couple years ago I replaced the LBJ’s and snapped a bolt on one. Had to take the whole spindle off and torch it to get it out. In the process, I had to remove the abs sensor plug. I discovered after putting it all back together the abs stopped being extra sensitive over uneven pavement while braking and works great since. No awful abs engagement and it functions correctly.

 

[phattyduck]

Oh boy, they shouldn't have done an alignment if the bushings look like that. Also, they should be able to get the caster in spec, even with a lift - but looking at the rust, the adjuster are probably frozen in place so they left it alone and didn't tell you.

Plan on getting new cam bolts for the LCA's when you do the LCA bushings. Handling will be MUCH improved with good bushings all around up front.

-Charlie

 

[nevada]

what condition are the rear brakes?

 

[DaMonkey]

Oh boy, they shouldn't have done an alignment if the bushings look like that. Also, they should be able to get the caster in spec, even with a lift - but looking at the rust, the adjuster are probably frozen in place so they left it alone and didn't tell you.

...

Agree.

There is a difference between an alignment and setting the toe. So many shops just set the toe and never tell you they didn't even touch camber or caster.

But I'd say you found your problem. New bushings and a proper alignment. Either one of those can make braking wonky like that.

 

[sam.basye]

Ah, funny..

Last year it failed the ridiculous VA inspection for play in an inner and both outer tire rods and wipers. Lol I replaced all 4 and it passed.
After installing the lift I had them mount the new tires and they wouldn’t do the alignment because an inner tie rod was bad..
This year it passed first try.

I was told they couldn’t do anything with the caster since it’s not adjustable.

Here’s the whole sheet.
Note: the before is with previous alignment and new lift/bigger tires.

Cams don’t appear to have been touched.
Driver

Passenger

Guess I need to find a new shop.


I think the rear shoes are okay, but haven’t looked in a while. I adjusted them not too long ago. The e-brake I wouldn’t trust to not slowly start to roll down a steep hill if it were left in neutral (Automatic).. its good enough to put the car in drive or reverse and let off the brake and hold position.

I’ll add the cam bolts to the list.
I think I’m going to buy new lower control arms instead of put new bushings in there.. like putting lipstick on a pig. Lol

 

[MarkamisPrime]

Ah, funny..

Last year it failed the ridiculous VA inspection for play in an inner and both outer tire rods and wipers. Lol I replaced all 4 and it passed.
After installing the lift I had them mount the new tires and they wouldn’t do the alignment because an inner tie rod was bad..
This year it passed first try.

I was told they couldn’t do anything with the caster since it’s not adjustable.

Here’s the whole sheet.
Note: the before is with previous alignment and new lift/bigger tires.

Cams don’t appear to have been touched.
Driver

Passenger

Guess I need to find a new shop.


I think the rear shoes are okay, but haven’t looked in a while. I adjusted them not too long ago. The e-brake I wouldn’t trust to not slowly start to roll down a steep hill if it were left in neutral (Automatic).. its good enough to put the car in drive or reverse and let off the brake and hold position.

I’ll add the cam bolts to the list.
I think I’m going to buy new lower control arms instead of put new bushings in there.. like putting lipstick on a pig. Lol

Wow they just set your toe and let it go.
Terrible.
I wouldn’t go to another shop, I would replace your LCA bushings than go in for another alignment under warranty. And make sure you stand over the guys shoulder or ask to look at the printout BEFORE he removes your rig from the rack.
Because by looking at your LCA pics I’m pretty positive that is your issue.
Your bushings are shotski so as you brake, and most of your weight moves forward, they are just wandering causing the erratic pull to either side.
Caster is in fact definitely adjustable on our rigs.

 

[128keaton]

I'd put money on lower control arm bushings. Mine would do the same and that went away after new LCA bushings.

 

[sam.basye]

Thanks everyone!


I bet they slide all around when I hit the brakes!

Would you attempt to press new bushings in the current control arms after seeing the pictures? Try to find some nicer used ones and press new bushings in? Or go with new arms?
The remainder of the lower control arms are in good shape. It’s just the pivots that look like dookie. Haha

Is the caster fixable to where it should be with a 2.5” lift without getting aftermarket upper arms? I’m used to the new steering feel now, but I’d prefer it be back to normal.

How would I go about a new alignment under warranty being it was done in May? Tell them their shop monkeys suck a** and demand they do it again for free? Lol

 

[128keaton]

Thanks everyone!


I bet they slide all around when I hit the brakes!

Would you attempt to press new bushings in the current control arms after seeing the pictures? Try to find some nicer used ones and press new bushings in? Or go with new arms?
The remainder of the lower control arms are in good shape. It’s just the pivots that look like dookie. Haha

Is the caster fixable to where it should be with a 2.5” lift without getting aftermarket upper arms? I’m used to the new steering feel now, but I’d prefer it be back to normal.

How would I go about a new alignment under warranty being it was done in May? Tell them their shop monkeys suck a** and demand they do it again for free? Lol

I honestly don't see why you couldn't wirebrush off the rust and repaint with some good rust prevention. But, if you don't have a press or patience, then you can't really swap the LCA bushings. It is a stupidly frustrating job at times.

 

[DaMonkey]

...
Would you attempt to press new bushings in the current control arms after seeing the pictures? Try to find some nicer used ones and press new bushings in? Or go with new arms?...

most around here are going to tell you OEM. for tie rods and ball joints, i would agree. but for the control arm bushings, i think it's worth considering getting either moog or ac delco. it's just too easy and you can do it yourself in a few hours. supposedly people have had a hard time maintaining alignment with them, but i put in moog lowers about 10k miles ago and they have been just fine. although i did hold on to my oem arms just in case if you are looking for an excuse to buy a press, you found it. but i decided to give moog a shot before i have someone else press them in. you can do it with a big vise too, i think tim's got a video for that. but whatever you do.... do not buy the cheap ebay stuff or SKP or ultra power or whatever they are called, they look like they might make it home, that's about it.

...Is the caster fixable to where it should be with a 2.5” lift without getting aftermarket upper arms? I’m used to the new steering feel now, but I’d prefer it be back to normal.
...

you should be able to get over 2° which you will appreciate after having none. a lot. but if you are doing the uppers at this time, it's worth considering adjustment arms so that you are not maxed on adjustment to get a minimum amount of caster. not totally necessary, but now is the time to consider it.

...
How would I go about a new alignment under warranty being it was done in May? Tell them their shop monkeys suck a** and demand they do it again for free? Lol

if you feel okay about them doing your new alignment, sure tell them that your tire wear and handling has sucked all Summer and you discovered that they told you wrong - caster/camber IS adjustable, they only did toe. it's hard to find a shop with an alignment tech that cares to understands the geometry rather than just follow a flow chart. i had an experience once they brought me back to explain they could not get me in spec and i pointed out that the mount on the wheel was crooked because the valve stem was pushing it off center :/ might be better to call local 4x4 shop and ask them where they go for full alignment. if you find a tech that cares, remember his/her name.

total pain to get this stuff dialed in just right, but when you are there, the difference is super dreamy especially with new tires.

 

[Mchaz]

My LCA bushings didn't look that bad before I changed them, but upon removal it was clear one bushing in each arm was totally shot. My 4R had a brake pull, erratic bump steer, and vibrations before I relaced the bushings. While the old bushings were still in the truck I was able to take a pry bar to the LCA pivot areas with the wheels off the ground, and move the whole LCA in every direction with little force. It was a quick and easy check that helped me realize how bad they were before pulling the trigger on a set of Whitelines.

Sent from my RS988 using Tapatalk

 

[sam.basye]

I was actually considering the SKP lower arms, but replacing the bushings. After looking at mine again, I’m going to keep em. Wheel it down and paint is easy enough. Ordered me a set of Whitelines for only $55 last night to press in. I have a vice, but might look into a press. I can always find an excuse for new tools!

Going to buy new upper arms this evening with extra caster built in. I’m sure the bushings in my uppers are shot too.

Went to my Toyota dealer today to see what it would cost for 4 new cam adjusters and it would be just over $200! I looked at the guy and said that’s ridiculous. He laughed and agreed. Lol I saw SPC makes them and have a little extra adjustment so I’ll probably get those as well.

There’s one shop around here that sells anything off-road related and lift kits for trucks so I’ll give them a call and see who they would recommend. I like the people at the current shop and their prices are reasonable. Plus they’re the only one in town that isn’t always backed up to a week just to get an alignment.. we’ll see what they have to say when I bring it back.

I’ve also got a slight vibration I haven’t been able to diagnose, so hopefully this will fix it.