Braking on snow

[Mr.4runner]

The bfg all terrains and the Goodyear duratracs are the best tires for the winter conditions. Tires are everything when it comes down to it. You only get a few square inches that actually make contact with the ground for ur traction. Not one thing you wanna go cheap on.

 

[vipergrhd]

Studs

Since no one mentioned it i will,for most people that live in icy places would run studded tires and it makes a ton of difference in traction or even good quality snow tires will help.eace:

 

[threadlessclimber]

A good set of tires are a must. I'd recommend finding a nice slippery parking lot and do a little playing around. My dad would do this with us as kids--he'd even pull the e-brake and make us deal with a sliding car. Get familiar with the abs and when and what will set it off. The system doesn't bother me--I still can pump my brakes without it coming on and I feel I have total control of the truck. But as said above experience is the best medicine. I've driven in snow my entire life and have dealt with way worse abs systems and have had many learning experiences. Not to open a can of worms but I very much prefer a manual transmission for winter driving.

 

[Mindomission]

Make sure that your rear brakes are adjusted up. If you are stopping with only the fronts, you would have just this problem. Poor braking, plus your steering is compromised.

I agree. If your rear drums aren't making contact with the pads, the front wheels are trying to stop while the backs wheels are trying to go. Granted, the fronts should engage before the back. Next time it happens throw it into neutral. If it helps it's because the drivetrain is no longer providing power the the rear which means your back brakes are doing nothing to stop the back axles from turning. Try putting it in neutral next time and see what happens.

 

[02SE]

The bfg all terrains and the Goodyear duratracs are the best tires for the winter conditions. Tires are everything when it comes down to it. You only get a few square inches that actually make contact with the ground for ur traction. Not one thing you wanna go cheap on.

The BFG's and Duratracs are a good compromise for tires that people would want to run year-round. But they pale in comparison to actual winter snow tires, when it comes to traction while driving in winter conditions.

 

[02SE]

As far as the ABS on my '97, I've lived in an area that gets heavy snow every winter, my whole life. I've never had any issues or concerns with how the ABS operates. In fact, just about the only driving I do in my '97 4Runner these days, is snow driving.

If anyone is having issues with their ABS, and it's not just poor driving or tires, have the system looked at by a competent mechanic. I have flushed my brake fluid every few years since I bought the truck new off the lot. When I flush the fluid I also go over the calipers to make sure they are clean and operating smoothly. The same for the rear drums.

Tires and driving experience are the biggest factors in snow. Every year I see out-of-town skiers driving to and from the Resorts in their rental cars, and driving as if they are on some dry, sun-baked stretch of Florida or SoCal highway. They usually end up in a ditch.

 

[Kurtis]

I have a 99 and I have the same problem when stopping on snow/ice. I could be going 1mph and if i try to stop on an icy surface, I will slide forever.. I have good tires too. the only way i stop is if i pop it in 4wd. in 4wd I can stop very well on any surface.
So, I tried pulling the abs today. What a PITA that was. But, that did nothing, still cant stop. What I did find to work was if I put in neutral. If I started to slide, I put it in neutral, and i stopped.

I fail to see how 4WD helps you stop. Unless your rear brakes are failing.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm going to disagree with a few things posted above. ;-)

1) I used to (about 20 years ago) be anti-ABS. I have learned how ill- conceived my prior hatred was. Properly maintained ABS will stop you faster period. That's not only 30+ years of driving in Colorado winters talking, it's sports cars on dry pavement too.

2) I am not going to get into the tire debate because it's like the oil debate but I will say the only tire you will find on my vehicles is Michelin. The LTX's I have run on my past 3 SUV vehicles (including my current 4Runner) are factory siped, will easily go 70K+ miles properly maintained and stop like molten lava on snow an ice.

They are also very quiet on pavement. There is a reason why tires cost what they do. We'll leave it at that.

3) A good driver with 4WD _AND_ a manual transmission can stop quicker on ice than an automatic of any breed with all other things being equal (tires, brains). Unfortunately most people today do not understand how to make engine braking work.

The science that has been lost on all but truck drivers and train engineers is that wheels moving slower than the momentum of the vehicle will slow it down faster than skidding wheels.

All that being said - if your 4Runner is uncontrollable and sliding through intersections you have 1) brakes that really need work and/or 2) really bad tires.

I could take you out tonight on ice in my 4Runner and let you slam on the brakes and you would probably be amazed out how fast it stops.

 

[T4R2014]

I hope nobody is taking advice from some random guy on the internet to disable a safety feature on their vehicle. I'm pretty sure that is illegal and you'll be in some big trouble if someone finds out. Toyota would not sell a vehicle with an ABS system like that, otherwise there would've been a recall. Chances are that your ABS system needs to get checked out if it's malfunctioning.

 

[eddiebx]

I fail to see how 4WD helps you stop. Unless your rear brakes are failing.

4wd engine braking I'm guessing?

While engine braking is good during inclement weather, it still has it's limitations...in my younger days when I like to go out and screw around in the snow and ice, I've managed to purposely lose traction while engine braking. If you downshift hard enough with a manual transmission, it's easy to break traction on ice/snow. Quite a funny feeling having your car sliding at one speed, and the wheels spinning and sliding at another speed, lol.

Anyways, I think it's pretty well known that ABS will increase stopping distances vs. just sliding to a halt during particular road conditions, but that certainly does not mean you should disable it, especially in the snow. What ABS does do for you in the snow (helps you maintain traction while maneuvering) more than out weighs the longer stopping distances IMO.

The only sound advice I can give for braking in the snow is plan way ahead and leave plenty of room for unforeseen circumstances. I know all of us like to feel like we can brake better manually and modulate the brake pedal by feel, but reality is you're at the mercy of 4 relatively tiny rubber contact patches. Can't defy physics!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Anyways, I think it's pretty well known that ABS will increase stopping distances vs. just sliding to a halt during particular road conditions, but that certainly does not mean you should disable it, especially in the snow. What ABS does do for you in the snow (helps you maintain traction while maneuvering) more than out weighs the longer stopping distances IMO.

Have to disagree with you Eddie and the facts back me up.


But your post is somewhat confusing. I think perhaps you are confusing ATCS with anti-lock brakes?

The ABS can modulate the brakes much faster than you or I can and only the most skilled racer on the track can better them.

For the street they are almost impossible to best by a human.

 

[eddiebx]

Have to disagree with you Eddie and the facts back me up.


But your post is somewhat confusing. I think perhaps you are confusing ATCS with anti-lock brakes?

The ABS can modulate the brakes much faster than you or I can and only the most skilled racer on the track can better them.

For the street they are almost impossible to best by a human.

Lol, yes probably just my confusing post, because I agree with you, that most driver can't do better than ABS.

What I meant is on certain road conditions you can slide to a complete stop faster with brakes locked up vs ABS slowing down w/o the tires locked up. I forget where I read the tests though, sorry! For most day to day driving like dry and rain, ABS stops you faster for sure

 

[kingwilliam]

What I meant is on certain road conditions you can slide to a complete stop faster with brakes locked up vs ABS slowing down w/o the tires locked up. I forget where I read the tests though, sorry! For most day to day driving like dry and rain, ABS stops you faster for sure

I've never heard this.... all the measured tests I've seen show that ABS always wins.

Even if you can't remember exactly where you read those test results, do you have any hints of where I could look? I'm really curious about this...

 

[02SE]

What I meant is on certain road conditions you can slide to a complete stop faster with brakes locked up vs ABS slowing down w/o the tires locked up. I forget where I read the tests though, sorry! For most day to day driving like dry and rain, ABS stops you faster for sure

You are correct. Rather than spend my time typing why, I'll just refer to the NHTSA's website:

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?

ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.

From here: Q&A REGARDING ABS BRAKES

That's why good tires and good driving ability are necessary in winter driving conditions.

When I previously said I have had no issues with my ABS, I meant I know what it can and can't do, and drive accordingly.

 

[Kurtis]

4wd engine braking I'm guessing?

Sure, that works but it's marginally better than brakes at best. Use your brakes carefully and it's just as good. They way it's written makes people perceive that 4WD makes you stop better not 4WD engine braking makes you stop better.

 

[eddiebx]

I've never heard this.... all the measured tests I've seen show that ABS always wins.

Even if you can't remember exactly where you read those test results, do you have any hints of where I could look? I'm really curious about this...

Anti-lock braking systems | Effectiveness | 4-wheel anti-lock brakes are designed to allow the driver to maintain steering control around an obstacle during a panic stop

This one kind of sums it up in a nut shell pretty good...I've also read real world test data showing pretty much the same result, if I do end up to find it I'll be sure to post. But basically as the article above puts it,

But part of the answer is that on HEAVY snow, locked wheels can be useful because they gather up a "wedge" of snow which helps to slow the vehicle. ABS allows this wedge to clear every time the wheels are unlocked. The same can apply on sand in some conditions.

 

[jsmith7]

I fail to see how 4WD helps you stop. Unless your rear brakes are failing.

I found this out when I was moving cars around in my driveway. I was backing up and when I hit the brakes, I started to slide. I put it in 4wd or even neutral and I stopped. But, I did do some driving yesterday after a big snow storm. It didn't seem like 2wd or 4wd braking was any different. And I was much more confident in braking than I was previously, even though I was inches away from side swiping a sign when messing around.

Doesn't seem to handle the snow as good as my 97 silverado, maybe its just the tires.

 

[nevada]

I don't know why I'm thinking of this now, but I was having real problems stopping on snow or slush last winter. I would put on the brake and continue sliding, even sometimes into the intersection. It was so bad it was almost like there weren't any brakes there at all. Thank goodness there weren't any cars coming at the time. It didn't seem to matter if I slowed down prior to getting to the intersection or if I pressed on the brakes steadily or pumped them. I tried all I could think of to figure out what would work, but it still remained a problem. Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what is the solution?

I realize this is old, but SLOW DOWN.

if you're sliding through/into intersections, you are going too fast for the conditions.

also, practice. it sounds like you don't have a lot of driving experience, especially not on slick surfaces. ABS or not, you don't just smash the pedal and expect to stop.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I will say one thing that I find extremely annoying is when the ATCS senses wheel spin in 2 wheel drive and overrides the throttle.

It's not only annoying it can be downright dangerous because until the computer releases the lock on the throttle you are not going anywhere.

More than once this has happened to me where I spin, am able to get traction but half of my truck is in the middle of an intersection with cars speeding towards me and the throttle will not do anything except crawl just above idle.

If there is ONE thing I don't like about the 4Runner, that is it.

 

[Kinnick]

I am also having a difficult time braking in snow this year and I don't recall it being this bad in past winters. In town stopping is poor at intersections and I slide more than I ever remember. I don't believe it is a tire issue because I have Michelin LTX M/S2 with a lot of tread remaining. Some things I have noticed is braking improves when I shift into neutral. Also, braking improves even more if I am in 4wd. I wonder if my rear drums need to be adjusted? Come to think of it my traction in 2wd taking off seems poor this year but in 4wd it is excellent as it always has been. This makes me wonder about tires but they are in great shape. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.