Break shoes "Locking up" to Drums

[Lug1]

Air in the lines would not do this, the peddle would be mushy and thats it. So now we not its not (or no longer) the E-break. Did you replace the break hardware (springs and such)? Or how are you adjusting the breaks? Turning the nut tell the shoes touch the drum and keep if from free spinning, then turning it back about 1/2 a turn has always been my rule of thumb. Another thing I wondering if the shop left a break line clamp on it somewhere. But the simplest thing to me sounds like you over adjusted, would be able to tell you if I was there and could hear it grinding.

Edit: O and if you bleed the breaks at any time always pump the the peddle a few times after you bleed and before you adjust anything.

How about the E. brake itself when it comes to installing the drums, by that I mean - is the only thing checked in the E. brake is the number of clicks as the handle pulls up ? If the E. brake is not strong enough to hold the wheels from spinning - does that get later adjusted by the adjuster ?
That leads me to ask - are the two things to take into consideration are:
1. Check for proper E. brake handle clicks
2. turn adjuster 'till wheels lock, then turn back 1/2 a turn
?
Thanks.

 

[Lug1]

Edit: O and if you bleed the breaks at any time always pump the the peddle a few times after you bleed and before you adjust anything. but don't do like I did and pump them with the drums off you will blow the wheel cylinders. (I was working the front breaks and another guy the back, he walked away, and w/o thinking about it I finished my part of the job "pumping the peddle".)

The chilton book has a warning "DO NOT pump the breake pedal while the brake drums are off" . They did not list as for the reason why. Thanks for clearing that one up.:wink2:

 

[iowajosh]

How about the E. brake itself when it comes to installing the drums, by that I mean - is the only thing checked in the E. brake is the number of clicks as the handle pulls up ? If the E. brake is not strong enough to hold the wheels from spinning - does that get later adjusted by the adjuster ?
That leads me to ask - are the two things to take into consideration are:
1. Check for proper E. brake handle clicks
2. turn adjuster 'till wheels lock, then turn back 1/2 a turn
?
Thanks.

There are specific directions for setting the bellcrank. If you aren't using it, I would guess that is not your immediate problem. If you're using your e-brake though, it could create problems if set wrong.

 

[Jayzero911]

There are specific directions for setting the bellcrank. If you aren't using it, I would guess that is not your immediate problem. If you're using your e-brake though, it could create problems if set wrong.

I wasent even thinking about the adjustment bolt on the bellcranks but that could be a part of the problem, he dose use the E-break a lot. I was thinking the adjustment thingy (that I now can't remember the name to) for the rear shoes. But yet another question I have is. Are you sure you have all the hardware and in the right places, just thinking if they put something on wrong or left something out and you have nothing to go off but the way they did it, then you could do this forever.

 

[Lug1]

There are specific directions for setting the bellcrank. If you aren't using it, I would guess that is not your immediate problem. If you're using your e-brake though, it could create problems if set wrong.

The bell crank seems to be adjusted right, I followed the instructions in the book + the ones posted here in PDF earlier in this thread. The adjustments bolts are in the correct distance from the back plate.

 

[iowajosh]

There is a specific distance the bellcrank is supposed to be from whatever it pushs on inside, I don't see that in those directions?

 

[Lug1]

It's on the PDF / link 'theDurk' has provided, earlier in this thread. On page 8 of that document.

There is a specific distance the bellcrank is supposed to be from whatever it pushs on inside, I don't see that in those directions?

 

[Lug1]

Update:

So, I drove the amount of millage from the last attempt (~120 miles), and by now, in previous attempts, the wheels jammed.
So far, I'm happy to say that I raised the truck up just now, after a 25 mile trip back from work, with mixed highway/city driving, and both rear wheels are spinning well.

In my last attempt I did this:

When adjusting the brakes using the adjuster, I installed the drums as usual - but - I also bought M12x1.5 nuts with matching washers and forced the drums into position as snugly as they would fit with the wheels on.

I always noticed that the drums had some free play when adjusting the brakes with the drums on, possibly making the adjustment false.
I forced the drums into their 'natural' place with 4 nuts and washers on each side.

This time, I also paid closer attention to the number of 'clicks' on the E. brake handle (in the cabin) and adjusted the brakes until the handle travel produced 8 'clicks'. In previous times i did not pay much attention to the clicks and paid more attention to the spin of the drums (how it 'felt'), which did not prove me much, because the wheels were getting stuck, after all, and I did not have a real point of reference to how they should 'feel'.

It's not all said and done yet, and they may jam again, but: So far, so good, I'm happy to say.
Thanks again for your great help .

 

[Lug1]

Oh well, lifted her up this morning, the rear left wheel would not spin at all, the rear right needed considerable arm force to nudge a bit. It was a good idea to lift her up, I was just before a 50 mile trip, which would have surely ended up with vibrations all through the car.

I'm 99% sure that my last adjustment / installation was as good as it gets, and she did roll just fine for more then she ever did since the brake job (more than 120 miles), but now, it looks like back to square one. Could my drums be warped once again ? after all, I did drive 40-50 miles with the wheels practically jammed.. (that was a few 'jams' ago').. Don't know.

I had no vibrations this time, mainly because I got pretty good in foreseeing this happen, I felt that the E. brake handle is getting rather tight to pull on, the number of clicks decreased from 8 to 4.

Can there be something bad with the shoe adjusters ? can they be just adjusting the shoes against the drums even if they're close enough ?

I'm thinking to also have a look under the console at the E. Brake handle adjusters, but I'm not sure if that's even a part of the problem, the bell-cranks do rest well, and I am able to adjust the shoes so the handle will produce the recommended amount of clicks.

Don't know...

 

[TheDurk]

The only thing I've got left for you is to suggest you try OEM shoes. Several posters have had problems getting non-OEM shoes to work properly. I know you've thrown a lot of parts at this, and I have no guarantee of success here, but it's all I got.

 

[Lug1]

Yes, it did cross my mind.
I still have the old and possibly warped drums . If they're OEM, should they have 'Toyota' marked on them ?
I think the older drums (if OEM) would still be better than the brand new ones I got, but just guessing here on appearance and feel.

Regardless, they felt considerably bulkier and heavy duty then the ones I got at Auto-Zone.
I need to find a place that will spin them for me, so I'll have once again the starting point of knowing the drums are 100% alright, I guess I may do that.
'till then, I'll just park the car and leave in gear, with minimal engagement of the E.brake. 2-3 clicks.

The only thing I've got left for you is to suggest you try OEM shoes. Several posters have had problems getting non-OEM shoes to work properly. I know you've thrown a lot of parts at this, and I have no guarantee of success here, but it's all I got.

 

[Jayzero911]

This just makes me want to :redbrick: can't imagine how you feel.

At this point all I can come up with is faulty wheel cylinders (but what are the chances of both going, and intermediately working) or possibly a break master cylinder..... I am really just grasping at straws here.....

 

[Lug1]

Could be.
The cylinders have less than 1000 miles on them, but all is possible, like you said.
'till this point I was giving some weight to the possibility I'm adjusting things wrong, but after last time and following all the good advice I got, plus the repair manual, I'm sure as I can be that all was done right.
So .. don't know.. I lifted her up and backed up the shoes a bit this morning, so the wheels would spin and I can drive down to work, It was a joy to be on the nice warm floor (my back took about 3 hours to warm up after that)...

I guess what's left is to replace all , from scratch. Cylinders, shoes, drums, my fear is though, that the issue is coming from 'up' the system, somewhere between the back plate and the E. brake handle / master Cylinder, and that would be a lot of work to do for nothing.

This just makes me want to :redbrick: can't imagine how you feel.

At this point all I can come up with is faulty wheel cylinders (but what are the chances of both going, and intermediately working) or possibly a break master cylinder..... I am really just grasping at straws here.....

 

[Lug1]

Well, this is an oldie, but, I should update as for what was the end of this story.

About 6 months ago, I gave up and took her to the dealership. This was after multiple visits to local mechanic and hours of trying to fix this myself, over a span of almost a year.

Dealership told me: No problems, we'll just back off the adjuster and you'll be all set.
To which I replied "Nope, that ain't gonna work"
They said "well, lets' give this a try" -

Yup, the wheel locked again, surprise...

After the the trip back there, they adjusted everything to perfection - Bell Cranks, E.Break cables, - well - the wheel/break still locked.

At that point, only the rear passenger wheel was getting locked up.

They said they literately see nothing wrong, but still admitted that the shoes get over adjusted which ends up sticking them to the drum - and for the wheel to lock.

Their final offer was - to snap off the tab on the adjuster and then the shoes will need manual adjusting every 20K miles, just a click or two should do it.

At that point, I took that offer, and well, after the tab of the adjuster was snapped off - the issue never came back.
...and that's how this mystery was solved, the culprit was never found, but hey, that was just too much to take..

Thanks everyone for the valuable advice, I did gain quite a bit of knowledge about drum brakes.. I'll say that ..