1engineer
Moderator
Post #11 is as deep as I go on this forum and I just wrote that as a primer for the regular guys. You are right though. If you don't do it yourself then you don't know what it is.
Broken/Stretched lug stud issue solved
- Thread starter brockeverly
- Start date
Post #11 is as deep as I go on this forum and I just wrote that as a primer for the regular guys. You are right though. If you don't do it yourself then you don't know what it is.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Shhh... you can just tell us! That way we don't have to burn our brains! :bravo: lol
1engineer
Moderator
It's not like people wouldn't understand it... they just don't care.
BlackWorksInc
New member
It's worse than that, if we try to understand it we have to do math...
MATH! THE HORROR THE NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY! IT SHATTERS MERE MORTALS MINDS!
(seriously though... I keep you around to do math for me while I enjoy my whiskey.
)EburgRunner
New member
I snapped a stud doing my Bilstein 5100 install. It snapped before even getting to factory torque. Service manager first wanted to make me pay for it. Told him that wasn't going to happen. He told me that the stud is broken so it isn't covered under warranty. But, that's exactly what warranties are for! I wouldn't come in to get a part fixed that wasn't broken. Finally after much speaking with his manager, he said they would cover it at the dealer level and then they would eat the cost from Toyota. I told him that was silly and he needs to convince Toyota that if torquing a nut to factory specs breaks the stud it should be covered under warranty. He said that he and I would have to "agree to disagree" on this. I told him, "No, we won't. Because I'm right." He just turned around and walked away. Anywho, got my stud replaced under warranty. Who knows what they were able to work out with Toyota. But seriously a 3 week old truck shouldn't snap a stud going to factory spec
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in your case I would get the torque wrench out , set to like 100 ft lbs and see if it clicks on the lug nut loosening. IF so then the lug nuts are over torqued.
this is another reason I do not like others working my vehicles.
if for some reason I have to have them work on my wheels I say no air guns when you install the lug nuts . as was clearly mentioned by blackworks they gun the lug nuts on to perhaps 130 ft lbs. then set torque wrench to 85ft lbs and it clicks so I'm done !
on many trucks like GM etc the torque is 110-130 ft lbs . so this would then with these toyota vehicles cause them to spend more time tweaking the tools so it is properly torqued.
I torque the lug nuts to 85 ft lbs .. then drive it a hundred miles and re-torque . before I go on long trip check all the wheels/tires re-torque.
also as was mentioned any lube on the lug nuts/studs is dangerous. many do apply anti seize on this hardware because they had this hardware rust up and then the studs snap off. the rust belt this is common . then the other issue is the alloy wheel is corroded on to the hub more anti seize.
one of my co workers has a Tacoma truck steel wheels . the lug nuts came off but not the wheel . so I suggested he put the lug nuts back on loosely then just drive it fwd/rev a few times 10-20 ft . that was all to get the wheel to loosen.
This type stuff happens , before you put the wheels on you must wire brush the hubs clean because the corrosion will cause the lug nuts to loosen due to the debris on the hub and or back side of the wheel.
repairs shops is all about time and profit .
EburgRunner
New member
I know what you mean, I had a tire shop bust a log nut on my old Tacoma with an impact wrench. But they fixed it for free because they knew it was their fault.
In this instance, though, I'm the one who did the install and the torquing. So I know it was done right, but the stud still snapped. It wasn't even close to 76ft-lbs when it came off. I had just put the torque wrench on, gave it a push and off she came. Really was just a totally defective stud.
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my family member has the toyota dealerships do the wheel rotations oil changes .. I did check with my torque wrench the lug nuts .. they were torqued too high. perhaps this is done because on alloy wheels to be safe the wheels should be torqued again after the are driven on a little bit. so they may use higher than spec. .they also did not put air in tires . one tire low . tire had a nail in it !
I am sure our new T4R are all checked at dealership before sales .. could be someone screwed up or like you say a bad bolt .
on my vehicle when I brought it home I found all the wheels were properly torqued . 15 miles on it ..
I am sure our new T4R are all checked at dealership before sales .. could be someone screwed up or like you say a bad bolt .
on my vehicle when I brought it home I found all the wheels were properly torqued . 15 miles on it ..
philsey
New member
Just one of the reasons I was impressed with DT ... they wire brush the hub face and the inner wheel surface, plus they install the lugs by hand and use a tq wrench to finish.
NorthwoodsRunner
New member
I know this is an old post. I have seen some tire places use an impact gun to high torque then pretend to finish the job with a torque wrench. If you hand start the lug nuts then hand torque them, I just don't see how you end up with stretched/broken studs. I agree with DT being exceptional.
2017 4Runner Manual Torque Spec
Page 444 of the 2017 4Runner Owner's Manual states:
Tightening torque
Steel wheels:
83 ft•lbf (112 N•m, 11.4 kgf•m)
Aluminum wheels:
76 ft•lbf (103 N•m, 10.5 kgf•m)
With the alloy wheels on the SR5, do I torque to 83 or 76?
Also, just thought it was interesting to note that the spare tire has its own torque spec on Page 445:
Tightening torque:
34.4 ft•lbf (46.6 N•m, 4.8 kgf•m)
Page 444 of the 2017 4Runner Owner's Manual states:
Tightening torque
Steel wheels:
83 ft•lbf (112 N•m, 11.4 kgf•m)
Aluminum wheels:
76 ft•lbf (103 N•m, 10.5 kgf•m)
With the alloy wheels on the SR5, do I torque to 83 or 76?
Also, just thought it was interesting to note that the spare tire has its own torque spec on Page 445:
Tightening torque:
34.4 ft•lbf (46.6 N•m, 4.8 kgf•m)
jrandom
New member
Alloy wheels are aluminum or other non steel wheel, so you torque to 76.
That must be the torque for the spare tire chain hoist, to lock the spare in place. The spare (except for limited) is a steel wheel and should be torqued as such.
Lubrication of bolt affects the torque value
I agree. I have seen a torque chart (one of the lock-tite companies web sites) that showed the torque with lock-tite applied and without along with an explanation that the lock-tite lubricates the bolt and the torque should be adjusted a little lower. I think is was something like 2-4 ft/lbs for a torque setting around 100 ft/lbs. I don't recall specifically but, I remember thinking that it was not enough for me to worry about unless the torque needed to be extremely accurate. Anyway, that's my two cents for what it's worth.
I agree. I have seen a torque chart (one of the lock-tite companies web sites) that showed the torque with lock-tite applied and without along with an explanation that the lock-tite lubricates the bolt and the torque should be adjusted a little lower. I think is was something like 2-4 ft/lbs for a torque setting around 100 ft/lbs. I don't recall specifically but, I remember thinking that it was not enough for me to worry about unless the torque needed to be extremely accurate. Anyway, that's my two cents for what it's worth.
<<<<
Senior Member
I've reached my own conclusion on how these wheel studs get broken. It is possible they get stretched over time due to improper torque from impact gun but the main culprit in my opinion is the lack of gradual force in sequence while using impact wrench. If you are using hand tools you will get 6 lugs on snug before applying torque wrench to all in star sequence. Now, if you are tech with an impact wrench you are likely to tighten first lug all the way before even installing other 5 because your time is limited. Sure some will double that sequence up another round just to be sure all 6 tight but i think that first stud is already stressed. And in all fairness to impact wrench toting techs these studs exposed to temperature swings due to brake disk heat as well as a lot of use if you rotate tires regularly.
