Bud Built Hidden Winch Regrets?

[geo]

I'm happy with the budbuilt hidden mount I installed in my 2014 LE (and with my experience working with Bud), but the installation was difficult (required cutting, welding, and reinforcing the mount) because the size and location of the grill is different on the LE.
Photos and details are at: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/161880-winch-options-2014s-yet.html#post1632824

 

[Jeremy556]

Why upgrade to synthetic if you don't even know the basics? Would it be wiser to use a steel cable and get to know how to use a winch first? Then upgrade to synthetic once you got the basics down? I know if I went with a synthetic right from the gate, I would be needing a new one right now since I wrapped my line around a tree and hooked it to pull myself out my first time I got stuck. I didn't know what a tree saver is. I didn't know what ad ring is for.i didn't know what the difference between a tow strap and a recover strap is.

Learning by trial and error with potentially deadly equipment is not wise. Regardless of line choice, you should not use a winch without doing some research on how to properly use it, and without the required accessories.

 

[Jeremy556]

I'm running a Titan TW12 12,000lb winch and Bud Built bracket and there's no sag on my 2013 4Runner TE. The notion that you need to upgrade your suspension for this accessory is absurd....you're just looking for a reason to change out your suspension for whatever reason. Maybe your wife believes the story but not me.

I guess, if you like the feeling of your front bump stops. Mine bottomed out the front constantly on the OE setup, without a winch, big battery, or anything else.

I had coilovers with higher than stock spring rate, and lost noticeable ride height.

 

[jrandom]

...and if that 75-100 lbs. were directly over the suspension, it increases at an exponential rate the further away it gets.

It is definitely not unrealistic to think. My 2013 TE is under 5000 miles old and feels way "mushier" than my '99 did at 170k (with original OE suspension).
Of course mushiness is subjective.

One mans mushy is another mans stiffy :thumb:

 

[gshadow325]

Learning by trial and error with potentially deadly equipment is not wise. Regardless of line choice, you should not use a winch without doing some research on how to properly use it, and without the required accessories.

trial and error? NO WAY did i say that.

Steel cable is MUCH more forgiving than synthetic line. you need to know not to let it drag on the ground etc.

i used my winch enough in the last two days to know if i need a syntheric line.

Many here think they need a synthetic line based off others recommendation. yet they dont even know what a snatch block is or a tree saver, or even own proper gloves.

i know i want a synthetic line.
i know if i had a synthetic line to begin with, it would be ruined right now.
i know now after having my winch for a few months and used it a few dozen times, synthetic line is the way to go based on several factors.

why i would go synthetic line with a bud built winch. my reasons.
-space is limited in there.
-steel cable gets caught up real easy
-since it is so tight in there, steel cable can get snagged up real easy.
-steel cable can bind and kink easy too

i only know these reason AFTER using it a few dozen times.

 

[eddiebx]

Steel cable is MUCH more forgiving than synthetic line.

Fast fwd to 0:30, does that look forgiving to you in the even of a mishap? lol

If anything synthetic is probably better for newbs in the sense that it's probably a little bit safer should you screw up a recovery. Damaged synthetic lines can be replaced, lives cannot.

 

[jrandom]

I used to run a winch cat in the winter (both kinds a tag team and a turret winch), standard issue 3600 feet of 9/16 steel cable, there is nothing forgiving about something that can saw through a mature pine tree I broke a hook once too, hell if the bow didn't hit the moon when it popped. I have seen a skier be where they should have been (ie ducked a rope to ski a closed run that was getting worked) and nearly get eviscerated.

I had a ramsey 8000 with a roller fairlead on my old pickup, it was steel and it was nasty, I oiled it and keep it protected as much as possible from the elements but it still broke strands and hashed you hands winding it in if you didn't wear gloves.

They maybe more durable but steel cable is a hell of a lot more dangerous. period.

 

[Jeremy556]

Is there an extra 0 in there, or is that a REALLY BIG cat with a (literal) ton of steel cable?

 

[jrandom]

Is there an extra 0 in there, or is that a REALLY BIG cat with a (literal) ton of steel cable?

No a new cable was roughly 3500 and change, literally over a 1/2 mile of cable, they break or wear and you trim them.

This is a newer model than the one I ran, I would have to scan a picture, my last run was 12 years ago...

http://www.bcsnowcat.ca/sun06-3/IMG_5131.JPG

 

[Intruder]

Steel cable is MUCH more forgiving than synthetic line. you need to know not to let it drag on the ground etc.

It's also not as safe as synthetic. You shouldn't really be dragging steel line on the ground either.

Many here think they need a synthetic line based off others recommendation. yet they dont even know what a snatch block is or a tree saver, or even own proper gloves.

People should do their own research to make a decision. Whether or not that includes what they read here is up to them. They should also be taking the time to learn how to use any gear properly, especially for something as inherently dangerous as vehicle recovery. I'll bet most people don't know what the minimum safe distance is during a recovery.

why i would go synthetic line with a bud built winch. my reasons.
-space is limited in there.
-steel cable gets caught up real easy
-since it is so tight in there, steel cable can get snagged up real easy.
-steel cable can bind and kink easy too

This sounds more like there's too much line for the winch or it isn't being spooled properly. The line shouldn't exceed the guards around the winch drum. My reasons for going with synthetic are that it's safer, has a higher break strength than steel at the same diameter, it's safer, it's lighter, it's easier to handle, and it's safer.

 

[nevada]

Fast fwd to 0:30, does that look forgiving to you in the even of a mishap? lol

If anything synthetic is probably better for newbs in the sense that it's probably a little bit safer should you screw up a recovery. Damaged synthetic lines can be replaced, lives cannot.

they weren't using that correctly. they didn't have the line weighted, and they used it as a yank strap.
also, the cable didn't break, it came unhooked from the pull truck.

stupidity across the board. stupid can get you killed. synthetic line would have had the SAME result in that situation.

 

[Jeremy556]

I'll bet most people don't know what the minimum safe distance is during a recovery.

If it involves the guys from Eddie's video, I would prefer to be at least 2 zip codes away.

 

[Jeremy556]

they weren't using that correctly. they didn't have the line weighted, and they used it as a yank strap.
also, the cable didn't break, it came unhooked from the pull truck.

stupidity across the board. stupid can get you killed. synthetic line would have had the SAME result in that situation.

Darwin missed that time. Hopefully he'll have better aim, next time.

 

[Intruder]

If it involves the guys from Eddie's video, I would prefer to be at least 2 zip codes away.

Heh, I remember watching a guy using a HiLift to jack his Cherokee on the trail a couple years ago. Had the nose of the jack in the hitch receiver so I pointed out to him that this was neither safe or a good idea. He said it would be fine so I got the f$#k out of Dodge in a hurry.

 

[STX4Runner]

Yeah, those guys are seriously stupid. When the video began I immediately feared they were from Texas due to the custom hunting truck that was stuck (those things are very common here). Zooming in on the winch hook imbedded in the windshield allowed me the see the registration stickers and confirmed my fears.

I saw a similar incident on the beach once (unfortunately, in Texas again; I promise, there are actually competant off roaders in this state). An old guy with an old CJ, an older winch and even older rusty winch cable tried to yank an F-150 out of the sand. I got the hell away from that but still was in viewing distance as the cable snapped... thankfully no one was hurt.

 

[eddiebx]

they weren't using that correctly. they didn't have the line weighted, and they used it as a yank strap.
also, the cable didn't break, it came unhooked from the pull truck.

stupidity across the board. stupid can get you killed. synthetic line would have had the SAME result in that situation.

lols, my bad, I didn't watch the aftermath carefully...didn't notice the WHOLE hook was stuck in there, lol. Thought it was just the frayed line end and the steel line crimp dangling from the hole.

 

[KCcarguy]

I've got a couple questions for you guys:

-Those of you that did the install, about how long did it take (I know this is highly variable, but just trying to get a rough idea) I just need to know if I should set-aside a single day, a whole weekend, or longer? :shrug:

-Also curious if a dual battery setup is essential or if I can get away with a single for a while? (Suffering some wallet fatigue).

 

[Intruder]

-Also curious if a dual battery setup is essential or if I can get away with a single for a while? (Suffering some wallet fatigue).

The main difference will be in how long you're able to use the winch. You don't need to get a dual battery setup though - you can also replace your OEM battery for a deep cycle like I did. Some things to keep in mind when you're winching off one battery though.

- Turn everything else off - radio, headlights, heater, etc.
- Keep the vehicle in neutral if possible and hold the rpms at around 3500 which is where your alternator gives maximum charge.
- If you notice your gauges stop working and dashboard lights dim then stop winching. Don't turn the vehicle off, let it run and recharge the battery.

 

[-Trev-]

The main difference will be in how long you're able to use the winch. You don't need to get a dual battery setup though - you can also replace your OEM battery for a deep cycle like I did. Some things to keep in mind when you're winching off one battery though.

- Turn everything else off - radio, headlights, heater, etc.
- Keep the vehicle in neutral if possible and hold the rpms at around 3500 which is where your alternator gives maximum charge.
- If you notice your gauges stop working and dashboard lights dim then stop winching. Don't turn the vehicle off, let it run and recharge the battery.

That battery upgrade is on my 'to do list', and having seen yours on your build/pics thread, have been meaning to ask one of these days if you had to modify your battery leads/connections or anything to make it fit. ??

 

[Jeremy556]

That battery upgrade is on my 'to do list', and having seen yours on your build/pics thread, have been meaning to ask one of these days if you had to modify your battery leads/connections or anything to make it fit. ??

You will have to modify your battery terminals to fit a group 31. I managed to catch a pic of my battery setup this weekend while I was fixing some of my winch wiring and replacing the solenoids with a contactor. You will have to take most of the 90 degree bend out of them if you want to use the accessory posts.