Can't get a Runner...might get a Jeep. :Cry:

[2021nightshade4x4]

FWIW, the current GC has been almost the same vehicle since 2011 with a few design tweaks since and now an added 3rd row with the L. I'd call it redesigned maybe, but calling it a first year remake when its essentially been the same evolving powertrain, technology, etc. since 2011 isn't really fair. FCA has their fair share of issues, but it's way more car for your $50k than the 4R is, if you're into that.

And a 4Runner isn’t? LOL

The tradeoff is you have more stable value with a 4Runner. You don’t gain anything buying a Jeep.


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[Lewis&Clark]

Ever think that there is a reason WHY Jeeps are plentiful and 4Runners are hard to find?

We had a Cherokee and it was the worst 4x4 we've ever had==out of a dozen. Marginally better than my Subaru BRAT. Never used off-road, just on road. Repairs cost more than the payments did for the year we had it! We've had 2 RAV4, 1 Scout, 2 4WD Toyota p/u, two Pathfinders, 1 Frontier, 1 Xterra, 1 Jeep, Subaru Brat, 1 Ramcharger, and 2 FJ40s. In over 20 years as a Wildlife Biologist for the FEDs, I've driven another dozen different rigs=all American made.For what it is worth, our 2019 SR5 Premium is the best rig we've had except MAYBE my 1985 SR5 pick-up.


Seek and you shall find!


FWIW: Wife loves her AWD RAV4, also.

Oh yes, of course I have! Jeeps are better than they used to be, but they're still no where near as reliable as a 4Runner. There's a reason my plan A is a 4Runner if I can find the right one at a reasonable price. But they're also not as unreliable as they used to be. Won't be as good, but a lack of options these days... And their off-road capability at least with Quadra-Trac II (thus, Overland models or higher), should be on par.

Aside from a couple pickups not in the cards right now, there are no other off-roading capable vehicles I'd consider other than a 4Runner and a Jeep. And even at that, I'm thinking only the Grand Cherokee Overland or higher...the Limited and below are effectively a fancy AWD with differential braking. That's all. It's permanent 4H, with no 4L gearing.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Most already replied. I love LTD due to TORSEN and for about $2k can add a better suspension than PRO. MANY of these available slightly pre-owned. If you want a dedicated color / TRIM (like that rad green TRD Pro) than you are not that desperate (needs vs wants). The jeep will DROP in major value FAST and is a POS. Would rather buy a 4th gen (MANY on FB marketplace for $9k-$15k with approx. 150k miles) over a jeep. Clean it up, drive until the supply block is eased, and sell it when they get the one you want in.

I hear you. I just sold my 4th gen. $5K over blue book. 2008 V8 Ltd w/ 201K miles. No regrets for selling, even considering the bind I'm in now. I'm not in a place where I want the stress and cost of dealing with used cars and the expensive repairs that come at 150k, 200k, etc. miles. I've got enough projects and stresses in my life, so it's time to get something much, much newer.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

I hated my Grand Cherokee. Kept it four months.

Why? And what year was yours?

 

[Lewis&Clark]

I have a 2021 White TRD Pro with 9,000 miles. Tinted windows / RSG Sliders / Blacked out badging. For $65k I’ll sell it to you tonight.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm looking for a Limited right now.

Yeah, I know that puts me in a bind, but the requirement is what it is and it will not change. Balancing my own flexibility with family preferences with cost. The TRD Pro is doable for me even if the family prefers the limited, but the prices for the TRD Pros are through the stratosphere. $65K won't happen. Not for me at least. I'm pre-approved up to $75K and I've got a really good downpayment saved up, but there's not a chance I'm going to spend that much.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

JGC looks nice and is magnitudes above a 4runner in terms of road comfort, but I've seen so many people with problems after a few years I wouldn't touch one. I'd put them in the same category as range rovers where it's great if you are only keeping it until the warranty wears out and then trading it in.

As far as more than capable off-road.....if off road is a dirt road leading to a camp site sure, Anything rowdier than that and I wouldn't push it. I'd probably trust a Subaru before a JGC for offroading. New outbacks are pretty damn nice to be honest.

Fair point, and kind of what I'm thinking.

If I have to go Jeep GC L, it will be a 2-3 year car, at which point the warranty expires and I'll be ready to trade up for a 6th gen 4Runner or a Ford F150 Lightning.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

We've had two newer GCs over the years. One got totaled and we replaced it with another. We enjoyed them quite a bit, but outgrew it when we had our second kid. They are surprisingly small inside, but the new GC L would solve that. They were great to drive. Very comfortable and even the V6 was reasonably quick. It towed better than my 4R does. Interiors and the big screen Uconnect are great. We haven't had any issues aside from recalls on the FCA vehicles we've had over the years. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new L, especially with the hoops to jump through and current pricing on a 4Runner. There is zero chance I'd overpay for a vehicle "just because" it's the market. F that.

Your post is EXACTLY where my head is at right now. The GC L is gorgeous and quite a bit more comfortable than the legacy GC. Road comfort was astoundingly better than my 4th gen Limited had ever been. But...the new GC L only gives you a selectable 4 low at the expensive Overland or higher trim. Everything below is that is Quadra-Trac I, which is nothing more than an AWD with permanent 4H.

But...the Jeep dealer all but offered to cut their $15K markup by 60% yesterday to make a deal by the end of the year. That would put the pricing for the Overland roughly on par w/ a new 4R. And I wanted a GC L in Limited and were willing to suck it up and get effectively an AWD crossover instead of the Overland, I can get a new one for even less than a used 4Runner.

The hoops and prices on the Toyots due to the low inventory are the huge gating factors right now.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

4Runner Limiteds in/near Columbus Ohio:

-Toyota Direct has three 2022s, white, black, and gray
-Germain Toyota has four 2022s, two black and two blue
-Coughlin Toyota has one 2022 in blue
-Tansky Toyota has three en route, blue, silver, and black
-Byers Toyota has three 2022s, two silver and one gray
-Zanesville Toyota has four 2022s, two white and two black

So in a 25-mile radius we have at least 18 Limiteds, and I didn't check all the ones in that radius.

None of these is listed at over $52k.

I know it's far, but maybe helpful?

Thanks for these. I'm scouring every site I can find, but there's no easy way to access all inventory everywhere. This is helpful. REally far and still subject to the dealer being willing to do an out of state sale (I've been turned down by a dozen dealers for this so far), but these are definitely worth digging into.

It seems some -- like Coughlin for example -- are already sold out. If they had a 2022 Limited when you posted this, they don't appear to now.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

FWIW, the current GC has been almost the same vehicle since 2011 with a few design tweaks since and now an added 3rd row with the L. I'd call it redesigned maybe, but calling it a first year remake when its essentially been the same evolving powertrain, technology, etc. since 2011 isn't really fair. FCA has their fair share of issues, but it's way more car for your $50k than the 4R is, if you're into that.

The L is much more than a 3rd row. Definitely a redesign, even if the underlying tech hasn't changed much.

Not that Toyota can claim anything there either. The 5th gen is getting very long in the tooth at this point. Other than carplay/android auto, ventilated seats, a 3rd row, and a couple minor things here and there, it hasn't changed at all since 2010.

The "more car for your $50K" thing is part of the calculus for my family...a big part for them. Less for me, but I need to please a wide range of requirements now.

 

[wcjeep]

My then new 2018 TRD off-road was difficult to find pre covid. I have bought Dodge trucks out of state with no problems. Is California law getting in your way?

My sister got on a dealer list locally for her 4runner. Purchased about 4months ago.

Check used Grand Cherokee prices compared to used 4runners. The GC has large depreciation drops. The Jeep Wrangler is slightly better than the 4runner. The Wrangler does not drive as nice on the road.

 

[02SE]

Here's a Barcelona Red Limited in Utah.

https://www.malonetoyota.com/new/Toyota/2022-Toyota-4Runner-74b4e1520a0e09716825084ee78800a7.htm

I got a good deal there, pre-Covid. I don't know what they would be like to work with today.

 

[5thToy]

Oh yes, of course I have! Jeeps are better than they used to be, but they're still no where near as reliable as a 4Runner. There's a reason my plan A is a 4Runner if I can find the right one at a reasonable price. But they're also not as unreliable as they used to be. Won't be as good, but a lack of options these days... And their off-road capability at least with Quadra-Trac II (thus, Overland models or higher), should be on par.

Aside from a couple pickups not in the cards right now, there are no other off-roading capable vehicles I'd consider other than a 4Runner and a Jeep. And even at that, I'm thinking only the Grand Cherokee Overland or higher...the Limited and below are effectively a fancy AWD with differential braking. That's all. It's permanent 4H, with no 4L gearing.

I rented a GC Limited three weeks ago on a business trip. It had 4Lo gearing, their version of MTS, and ride height adjustment.

 

[85GT-79FJ40]

That Jeep will be worth about 40% less than a 4Runner in 10 years.

you might be being a little generous there.

 

[LITOY4runner]

We have both 4R and JGC, my wife drives the JGC as her daily. Both are 2018 and we haven't had issues with either. We leased the JGC as I was hesitant to commit to the brand, but bought it out with all the craziness going on. If you're on the fence and don't want to overpay for a 4R why not jump into a lease with the JGC? At least you're covered for 3 years and can dump it off at the end if its complete crap. I know a lot of people don't like to lease, but it's an option worth considering right now.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

We have both 4R and JGC, my wife drives the JGC as her daily. Both are 2018 and we haven't had issues with either. We leased the JGC as I was hesitant to commit to the brand, but bought it out with all the craziness going on. If you're on the fence and don't want to overpay for a 4R why not jump into a lease with the JGC? At least you're covered for 3 years and can dump it off at the end if its complete crap. I know a lot of people don't like to lease, but it's an option worth considering right now.

Because leases now increasingly don’t offer buyout options. Banks don’t want customers to be able to flip or trade mid-lease.


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[Pedro367]

That Jeep will be worth about 40% less than a 4Runner in 10 years.

Clearly the 4R will hold it's value better, but Jeep isn't bad in that regard either.

And a 4Runner isn’t? LOL

The tradeoff is you have more stable value with a 4Runner. You don’t gain anything buying a Jeep.

Clearly it is. That's not what I was debating. I was saying his "all new" Jeep comment isn't really accurate. The difference is that the Jeep has actually evolved over these 10 years whereas the Toyota has practically been unchanged except for the 2014 facelift. Jeep got multiple new interiors with the newest being absolutely gorgeous, an 8-speed trans, major tech improvements and upgrades, etc. Toyota stayed the same and it's honestly why I love my 4R, but for a family vehicle those new creature comforts, an actually good stereo, good tech/nav, silent cabin, etc. are really nice. Jeep is charging you more over the years because they actually improved the vehicle. Toyota (or at least toyota dealers) now wants to charge you the same amount of money for the same vehicle they made in 2010.

Your post is EXACTLY where my head is at right now. The GC L is gorgeous and quite a bit more comfortable than the legacy GC. Road comfort was astoundingly better than my 4th gen Limited had ever been. But...the new GC L only gives you a selectable 4 low at the expensive Overland or higher trim. Everything below is that is Quadra-Trac I, which is nothing more than an AWD with permanent 4H.

But...the Jeep dealer all but offered to cut their $15K markup by 60% yesterday to make a deal by the end of the year. That would put the pricing for the Overland roughly on par w/ a new 4R. And I wanted a GC L in Limited and were willing to suck it up and get effectively an AWD crossover instead of the Overland, I can get a new one for even less than a used 4Runner.

The hoops and prices on the Toyots due to the low inventory are the huge gating factors right now.

Yes, QT is just a fancy AWD. Better than a Highlander or equivalent crossover, but it is still limited in capability for sure. I guess it depends on how you plan to use it. But, if you can get an Overland for about Limited 4R price and get your 4 Low case and air suspension I'd call that a no brainer. Both vehicles are apples to oranges at that point. The only thing they really have in common is that they are both cars. Otherwise, it's a fairly capable luxury SUV compared to a fairly capable primitive utilitarian SUV even in Limited trim. Toyota just gets you that sweet sweet lack of depreciation and reliability.

 

[rageandlove]

Thanks for these. I'm scouring every site I can find, but there's no easy way to access all inventory everywhere. This is helpful. REally far and still subject to the dealer being willing to do an out of state sale (I've been turned down by a dozen dealers for this so far), but these are definitely worth digging into.

It seems some -- like Coughlin for example -- are already sold out. If they had a 2022 Limited when you posted this, they don't appear to now.

cars.com = you can get every car by make model color distance etc. Super simple.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I haven't seen that announcement. If it's legit, that's helpful to know. May be too late, but I'll hold out as long as I can.

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/toyota-production-800000-vehicles-january-record/68785/

THE COMPANY WANTS TO MAKE UP FOR DELAYS CAUSED BY THE MICROCHIP SHORTAGE AND PROBLEMS RELATED TO COVID-19
By Daniel Rufiange , 2021-12-16
Nothing gets bandied around more often in the auto industry than numbers. Numbers to do with sales figures, with performance specs, with the year so-and-so is going all-electric. Sometimes we forget to put the numbers bandied our way in perspective.

News this week out of Japan threw out a number that merits perspective-placing. That would be Toyota’s announcement that it intends to assemble 800,000 vehicles in January worldwide.

800,000!

It's just a number, sure. But let's take a moment to look at what it means. The best-selling vehicle in Canada is the Ford F-150. Roughly speaking, Ford delivers 120,000 units to Canadian customers every year. In January, and just in January, Toyota will produce the equivalent of six to seven years worth of F-150 sales in Canada.

Need we mention that if it manages it, the Japanese automaker will set a record for the month? The reason for the push is simple: Toyota is increasing production to make up for delays caused by the microchip shortage. The world's leading manufacturer in terms of volume has been affected by a shortage of parts supplied by factories in Malaysia and Vietnam, a shortage caused by over-strong demand and by issues related to Covid-19.

Said the automaker via a statement, “We will continue to maintain our production forecast of the 9 million unit level” for the year ending March 31.

Shopicar.com, 100% online, shop for your next car, buy online and get it delivered to you anywhere in Quebec!

The January production target represents an increase of 60,000 units from the previous year.

Toyota also said this week that shortages are forcing it to halt some production in Japan in December, resulting in a loss of 14,000 vehicles for the month.

In all, in its fiscal year ending March 31, Toyota plans to assemble nine million vehicles over a 12-month period.

 

[Sonoran_Desert]

Hi OP,

If you want a new 4Runner there are ways to make that happen. I think you and your family prefer the Jeep and see yourselves enjoying that vehicle more.


Before you buy the Jeep, level with yourself on how you and your family will feel when things start breaking on your Jeep sooner than they should and costing money that could have gone to other things your family needs or would enjoy. Will you be OK with that as a trade-off for the extras the Jeep is offering?

 

[TRDBRO402]

Did I read that right? You would be paying over sticker for a Jeep?

Good Luck!