CBI Rear Bumper 'Standard' Full Swing Arm "Death Wobble" - Chime In

[NateMob]

Doesn't matter if it's relevant or not, all input regarding possible solutions are welcomed. Do I think just replacing the body mounts will fix the problem, not likely. But, it would probably help with bumper movement some.

I plan on doing a full look over of mine this weekend. After that I will report back with CBI and direct them to this thread as well.


Let me note that I have no problem with CBI products. All their stuff is top notch. Things like this are hard to foresee when fabricating. So, it's up to the us customers to speak up to make any issues known. I'm thankful for CBI's customer support and willingness to take care of the issue. Steve, their main fabricator, called me yesterday. So they are definitely aware of everything.

[MENTION=82211]TCMach[/MENTION] Forgot about the Hi-Lift.. Added to original post. Thanks

You're right. I shouldn't have jumped on [MENTION=91261]Skidmarcx[/MENTION] like I did. I honestly have just been annoyed by the non stop vibration and shaking of the spare tire. When I posted that he was off topic, I should have just said I don't want the "solution" from CBI to be that we should buy different body mounts from another vendor.

Glad to hear CBI is looking into it. Thanks for getting this started and starting a thread to get all the experiences together to present to them.

 

[NateMob]

They will not transmit more vibration.

This is the year 2001. 13 years ago, the tire did the same thing on my tire carrier. Only not as much.

So to correct the mis-information in the thread, the mounts are an exact stock replacement and they DO NOT increase any vibration.

This is EXACTLY why I would never make a tire carrier bumper for a 3rd Gen. Exactly why !!!

Thanks for posting Steve, I figured giving you a call would prompt a post in here.

 

[sn0wrunner]

How will stiffer body mounts stop the bumper and tire from shaking from undulations in the road?

This is the way I see it. Assuming that the tire carrier is mounted solid to the bumper and all latches are tight etc. (which it might not be, could just be a design flaw, it's hard to tell from the video). The bumper should be bolted solid to the frame. In this case you can consider the bumper and tire carrier to be as solid as the frame. It all moves as one piece. Now the body of the vehicle also bolts to the frame, however with the stock mounts it is not a solid connection because the rubber in the mount is too soft. For there to be no movement you would need the body mount to be a solid connection like the bumper is to the frame. So when the tire carrier is moving the whole frame is moving, or "flexing" around the body. Hope that kind of helps explains the theory... But if the tire carrier is moving or wobbling independently from the bumper then the flaw is with the bumper and tire carrier setup. Like I said, it's hard to see if the bumper is also moving when he shakes the tire.

 

[NateMob]

This is the way I see it. Assuming that the tire carrier is mounted solid to the bumper and all latches are tight etc. (which it might not be, it's hard to tell from the video). The bumper should be bolted solid to the frame. In this case you can consider the bumper and tire carrier to be as solid as the frame. It all moves as one piece. Now the body of the vehicle also bolts to the frame, however with the stock mounts it is not a solid connection because of the rubber in the mount is too soft. For there to be no movement you would need the body mount to be a solid connection like the bumper is to the frame. So when the tire carrier is moving the whole frame is moving, or "flexing" around the body. Hope that kind of helps explains the theory... But if the tire carrier is moving or wobbling independently from the bumper then the flaw is with the bumper and tire carrier setup. Like I said, it's hard to see if the bumper is also moving when he shakes the tire.

Gotcha, I understand what you are saying. Very possible that it could be part of a solution in that case. I think the other part of the equation is the tire is just too far from the mounting points to be rigid.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Yep. That's more likely the case. It's not easy to make a tire carrier not rattle. On my way to work this morning I saw a JK driving down the road and his tire was bouncing all over the place! I wanted to take a video of it it was so bad. Decided it probly wouldn't be safe. Lol. Now I'm off topic!

 

[MStudt]

Could have saved a lot of time and nagging had someone mentioned CBI to see what they say.

[MENTION=64712]CBI OffRoad Fab[/MENTION]

 

[NateMob]

I'm pretty sure the only way to really correct the problem would be to design your carrier like [MENTION=34852]crazydubman[/MENTION] has his built. [MENTION=95329]txbonds[/MENTION] your idea using your side hoops could get you closer than i could without anything to build off of.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I hope this doesn't offend any of you guys but the reason I didn't buy a swing out carrier (beside $$$) and instead opted for Savage Offroad low profile steel bumper ($450) is I was pretty worried about the longevity of those swing out carriers.

I'm a long term owner, 12 years now, and I know that in 25 years if my truck is still here that my Savage bumper will be as well. It has no moving parts.

Sorry to hear about all the problems. I realize it must be frustrating, especially since many of you are about $1300+ in on some of these rear bumpers.

 

[NateMob]

I hope this doesn't offend any of you guys but the reason I didn't buy a swing out carrier (beside $$$) and instead opted for Savage Offroad low profile steel bumper ($450) is I was pretty worried about the longevity of those swing out carriers.

I'm a long term owner, 12 years now, and I know that in 25 years if my truck is still here that my Savage bumper will be as well. It has no moving parts.

Sorry to hear about all the problems. I realize it must be frustrating, especially since many of you are about $1300+ in on some of these rear bumpers.

I'm not offended,:hatsoff: I just knew when i planned out my build that i didnt want my spare inside or on the roof. No room for a 34 underneath.

 

[MStudt]

I hope this doesn't offend any of you guys but the reason I didn't buy a swing out carrier (beside $$$) and instead opted for Savage Offroad low profile steel bumper ($450) is I was pretty worried about the longevity of those swing out carriers.

This is the exact reason why a lot of places won't add all that fancy jazz to a swing out. Those spindles are designed to carry all that weight. One 4-5" spindle is going to have a hard time supporting a swing out that is around 24" tall with the weight from a tire, cans, and so on. A better way would be having two spindles, one on each side. This will distribute the weight of everything a lot better, and will remove a lot of the stress. The higher the carrier, the more it's going to shake. This is a common issue on more than just our 4runners. Coming from the jeep world, and having dealt with the exact same issues.

 

[txbonds]

Ideally, two swing outs with both an upper and lower hinge and a single latch for each at the bottom only. This would add a lot of extra rigidity to each swing. The only real way to get the upper hinge would be a modified side hoop design most likely as you wouldn't want to tie into the body.

 

[MStudt]

Ideally, two swing outs with both an upper and lower hinge and a single latch for each at the bottom only. This would add a lot of extra rigidity to each swing. The only real way to get the upper hinge would be a modified side hoop design like I mentioned though as you wouldn't want to tie into the body.

You are very correct with this statement. What many don't realize is that this is not an isolated CBI issue. This is an issue across the board with many manufactures, and with all types of vehicles. I do not have a CBI bumper, but this issue extends to more than them. I could take a video of the spindle carrier I have on my Jeep, and it bounces around a lot more than the OP's does. It's a known fact that spindles mount carriers have this issue. The solution for Jeeps was a body mounted carrier, or some kind of a double spindle carrier.

 

[TCMach]

I'm thankful for CBI's customer support and willingness to take care of the issue. Steve, their main fabricator, called me yesterday. So they are definitely aware of everything.

Could have saved a lot of time and nagging had someone mentioned CBI to see what they say.

He is in direct communication. Much better than a forum tag.

I don't know if this could be tied in or not but I remember discussing the swing out droop issue with I think [MENTION=44220]BigFishAllDay[/MENTION] and [MENTION=58830]JWaldz[/MENTION]. In the end I think most of my droop (not much but I do have to give it the slightest lift to get it up on the pad) was caused by inherent play on the bushing design. Possibly that could be a factor as I have never had an issue with the bumper wings impacting the body.

Also do any of you have a rub spot right next to the auger latch? I'll edit this with some pictures to show what I mean.

EDIT:
Droop shot. Not alot of droop at all but it does mean there is some play. The swing out was just pushed up against the block for this shot. It maintains this amount of droop throughout its full swing
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/102663750@N03/12993858124/" title="IMG_4731 by TCMach21, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3524/12993858124_94e6c188ce_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="IMG_4731"></a>

Rub shot. On both sides (swing out and bumper) I have this little rub patch. I never hear anything though so it must be a tiny movement. Also I just oiled my screw for the latch, its not actually rusty haha.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/102663750@N03/12993589523/" title="IMG_4733 by TCMach21, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2181/12993589523_4060787211_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="IMG_4733"></a>

 

[MStudt]

He is in direct communication. Much better than a forum tag.

Sure, it's much better than a forum tag for the OP. What about everyone else that has brought up questions and concerns. Is CBI in direct communication with all of them too?

 

[NateMob]

I mentioned it a while ago when on the phone with them, they were "looking into it. and had heard about it from others." I just figured i was supposed to deal with it, I check everything back there regularly to maintain that everything is tight and not working loose.

Ill mention that my swing out has zero drop when its open. No play whatsoever in the bushings or spindle.

 

[TheeMikeB]

I have the swing out/hybrid bumper and I will need to go check it. I do know it wobbles a little bit but I haven't noticed it affect my driving. I will say that there have been two times that the lugs holding the tire have been loosened. The first time I wasn't sure if it was due to someone trying to steal my tire, the second time I just figured that based on how I use my rig, these are bolts that will need to be checked and torqued before/after a run.

 

[TCMach]

I plan on doing a full look over of mine this weekend. After that I will report back with CBI and direct them to this thread as well.

Sure, it's much better than a forum tag for the OP. What about everyone else that has brought up questions and concerns. Is CBI in direct communication with all of them too?

Ok... I guess i shouldn't have chopped his quote down so much. If we have incredibly urgent questions or concerns with these bumpers then we as owners should call CBI also.

I hope this doesn't offend any of you guys but the reason I didn't buy a swing out carrier (beside $$$) and instead opted for Savage Offroad low profile steel bumper ($450) is I was pretty worried about the longevity of those swing out carriers.

I'm a long term owner, 12 years now, and I know that in 25 years if my truck is still here that my Savage bumper will be as well. It has no moving parts.

None taken. I agree with your long term stance. I've only had mine for three so far but its not something I'm going to sell so I dont want to buy anything that might be a problem down the road. My CBI will be around long after my truck....and still have tire vibes

 

[MStudt]

Ok... I guess i shouldn't have chopped his quote down so much. If we have incredibly urgent questions or concerns with these bumpers then we as owners should call CBI also.

I guess we can keep going at it. In my opinion this is a lame ass excuse for not putting information out for potential buyers to see. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense just to post up in the forum about the issues, ways to address it, and a potential way to fix it? This seems like a better option than having someone answer the exact same questions call, after call, after call. This information should be made public to the end users, and not kept hush hush until you call them. Better to make the information public than to have pissed off buyers coming back to you.

 

[TCMach]

I guess we can keep going at it. In my opinion this is a lame ass excuse for not putting information out for potential buyers to see. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense just to post up in the forum about the issues, ways to address it, and a potential way to fix it? This seems like a better option than having someone answer the exact same questions call, after call, after call. This information should be made public to the end users, and not kept hush hush until you call them. Better to make the information public than to have pissed off buyers coming back to you.

I suppose your right. Not really sure why I chose to give you shit for that. Sorry about that.

Guess this isn't really something that is on my "things I really need to fix" list so it isn't a big deal if I dont see any of the background and the results trickle down to me at some time. Maybe in my mind the more of us they have to talk to, the less time they are fixing the problem? Who knows. Looking at it as a potential buyer I can see why having everything in the open is much better.

 

[JWaldz]

I guess we can keep going at it. In my opinion this is a lame ass excuse for not putting information out for potential buyers to see. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense just to post up in the forum about the issues, ways to address it, and a potential way to fix it? This seems like a better option than having someone answer the exact same questions call, after call, after call. This information should be made public to the end users, and not kept hush hush until you call them. Better to make the information public than to have pissed off buyers coming back to you.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but isn't that what I'm doing? By exposing the issue and making a case about it, the issue as a whole becomes known. You don't go to court empty handed, you go with pure 100% proven evidence. So, before I go to the "court" I'd like to make sure I have my evidence. We know the problem exists, whether it be CBI's platform or any other metal fabricator's platform. The point is, how many are affected by it and will there will be a fix for it when everything has came together. No one ever got anything done by sitting in their lazy boy. Other customers may be fine with the issue or just not care enough that it's a problem for them. Therefor, never saying a thing about it. For me, it's been a problem for a long time but it's been at the bottom of the list. It's not at the bottom anymore.

Can we get back to the main purpose of this thread?