Clueless on CEL

T

Tonya2008

New member
Okay guys so I'm getting CEL every so often. I maybe get the light to come on once every 60 days or so... When it comes on its only on for a few miles (10-20 miles) then its clears itself. I finally got it pulled today while it was on and it came up as P0016.

P0016 (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Crankshaft Position-Camshaft Position Correlation

I'm thinking about replacing the Cam Position Sensor and possible the Crank Position sensor too. Has anyone replaced these sensors before? If so, any directions or pictures of where the sensors are?

I doubt it being the Timing chain since this CEL isn't coming on more frequently. The 4Runner runs fine even when the CEL comes on. I searched the other threads and my issue seems different than theirs.


2008 4Runner SR5 4x4 V6
108k miles

Thanks in Advance!
 
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Tonya2008 said:
How does the gas cap relate to P0016? Gas cap issues would throw an emissions code not a camshaft/crankshaft position sensor code. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.
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He's doing it because he knows I am on a tirade against the "gas cap fixes all" :yuck:

As for your issue, is it a V6 or V8?

It'd be best to test the sensors and verify there is infact an issue with correlation; but not everyone has a PC based Oscilloscope to play with.

You could replace the cam sensor and that would probably fix the issue, i can't remember where the sensors are on the V6 or V8 so replacing the Cam and/or crank sensor(s) may be a pain.
 
BlackWorksInc said:
He's doing it because he knows I am on a tirade against the "gas cap fixes all" :yuck:

As for your issue, is it a V6 or V8?

It'd be best to test the sensors and verify there is infact an issue with correlation; but not everyone has a PC based Oscilloscope to play with.

You could replace the cam sensor and that would probably fix the issue, i can't remember where the sensors are on the V6 or V8 so replacing the Cam and/or crank sensor(s) may be a pain.
Click to expand...

V6, Does anyone know the location of the Cam Position Sensor?
 
So a P0016 doesn't look to be an issue with the sensors per say (at least not according to TIS), they're saying there's a possible issue with the timing chain, VVTi system and/or something related.

I would recommend having a good shop (dealer or independent) check the vehicle and verify that cam & crank are in fact out of sync before replacing just a sensor as the issue may be deeper than that. I checked the diagrams and they were a bit difficult for me to decipher but it doesn't look like the camshaft sensors are easy to get to.
 
BlackWorksInc said:
So a P0016 doesn't look to be an issue with the sensors per say (at least not according to TIS), they're saying there's a possible issue with the timing chain, VVTi system and/or something related.

I would recommend having a good shop (dealer or independent) check the vehicle and verify that cam & crank are in fact out of sync before replacing just a sensor as the issue may be deeper than that. I checked the diagrams and they were a bit difficult for me to decipher but it doesn't look like the camshaft sensors are easy to get to.
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Two quick questions... What do you think the testing should run me...Ballpark? Should I get it tested with the light on or now since the light is off? The light normally isn't on long enough for me to make it to the dealer. Thanks for the help man!
 
Hard to say how much they'd charge for that... I'd say maybe around an 1 hour so for diagnostic time, I believe its usually around $100 for diagnostic work at most dealerships.

It would be nice to take it to them with the light on, but I wouldn't stress too much because its an intermittent condition and is out of your control when its on or off.

I would just recommend that someone who knows what they are doing check the vehicle out because you need to really narrow down the possiblitlies. Here are just a couple that the TIS FSM lists;

~Is the Camshaft & Crankshaft sensor correlations actually out of Sync?
~If so, is it because either the Camshaft and/or Crankshaft sensors are intermittently failing?
~Is the timing chain loose/off by a tooth or two/stretched prematurely/ect?
~Is there an issue with the VVTi Camshaft Phaser that is causing an intermittent issue in engine timing that is being construed by the system as a camshaft/crankshaft correlation issue?

Ect, ect...
 
I had a recent experience with the related P0018 fault code on my 2004 V6.

I replaced the head gaskets and when I started the engine it was idling like crap and had the P0018 fault code. I had replaced the variable valve timing solenoid on that side and figured I either screwed up the timing or the sensor was bad.

I took it to a shop and they checked my work, cleared the code and drove it and it was fine. I'm not sure why it just magically started working. They said I had the timing lined up perfectly so that wasn't the issue.

About a week later I notice it's leaking oil so I bought a seal to replace the leaking one. Before I can get around to changing it, my wife calls and says the 4Runner is running rough like it did after replacing the head gaskets. I got home and checked the oil level and it was about 1.5 quarts low. So I fixed the leak and filled up the oil.

It's running better now, but I can't get the fault code to clear even with an OBD2 scanner or taking the battery cables off the battery. Does anyone know a way to clear this fault code without taking it to a shop?

I mainly want to see if it will actually clear or if the low oil level stretched the timing chain. I can check the chain, but I don't want to take valve covers back off. I would rather have a sure way to clear the code so that if it comes back I know for sure something is wrong with the timing.
 
If the light/code won't go away after resetting, something is off or broken....

And I don't think low oil will stretch the chain, but I'm not a mechanic, I just come from one.
 
Tonya2008 said:
Okay guys so I'm getting CEL every so often. I maybe get the light to come on once every 60 days or so... When it comes on its only on for a few miles (10-20 miles) then its clears itself. I finally got it pulled today while it was on and it came up as P0016.

P0016 (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Crankshaft Position-Camshaft Position Correlation

I'm thinking about replacing the Cam Position Sensor and possible the Crank Position sensor too. Has anyone replaced these sensors before? If so, any directions or pictures of where the sensors are?

I doubt it being the Timing chain since this CEL isn't coming on more frequently. The 4Runner runs fine even when the CEL comes on. I searched the other threads and my issue seems different than theirs.


2008 4Runner SR5 4x4 V6
108k miles

Thanks in Advance!
Click to expand...

I know this is a crazy-old thread, but I'm having the same exact symptoms with my 08 with 127k miles. Did you ever resolve the issue?
 
asdfman7 said:
If the light/code won't go away after resetting, something is off or broken....

And I don't think low oil will stretch the chain, but I'm not a mechanic, I just come from one.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. I was hoping to find a way to do what the shop did when they originally fixed the code. That way if the code comes back, I know for sure that something is physically broken without taking the valve covers off (or worse).

Clearing the code with an OBDII scanner won't make the ECM relearn the correct timing though, right? That's what I think the problem is because it idles perfectly in Park, but once I shift to drive and start moving the VSC/Trac lights come on and idle has a little vibration to it. I would expect it to vibrate all the time if there was something broken.

Is there some way to get the ECM to relearn the cam/crank position without expensive Toyota tools?
 
djpope09 said:
Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. I was hoping to find a way to do what the shop did when they originally fixed the code. That way if the code comes back, I know for sure that something is physically broken without taking the valve covers off (or worse).

Clearing the code with an OBDII scanner won't make the ECM relearn the correct timing though, right? That's what I think the problem is because it idles perfectly in Park, but once I shift to drive and start moving the VSC/Trac lights come on and idle has a little vibration to it. I would expect it to vibrate all the time if there was something broken.

Is there some way to get the ECM to relearn the cam/crank position without expensive Toyota tools?
Click to expand...

Old thread resurrection with a same problem. 2007 V6, 125k miles. Intermittent CEL that clears itself (I didn't reset it or whatever). No rough idle, starts fine. Code P0016. Just researching the threads before I go and sink $2k into the repairs. The problem seems to be pretty rear :(
 
andreylights said:
Old thread resurrection with a same problem. 2007 V6, 125k miles. Intermittent CEL that clears itself (I didn't reset it or whatever). No rough idle, starts fine. Code P0016. Just researching the threads before I go and sink $2k into the repairs. The problem seems to be pretty rear :(
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I was getting the code due to a broken chain guide.

There's a plate on the timing cover with four bolts that you can open up to inspect the main chain tensioner or lock it so the chain has slack. That tensioner pushes against a little black bumper on the chain guide. I must have broken that black bumper off while doing the head gasket job because it wasn't there anymore.

I had to take the timing cover back off to replace the chain guide and I haven't the fault code since. I think the missing piece of the chain guide was leaving slack in the chain and causing the P0018 code.

If I were you I would start with the sensors for the cam shaft position. You will have to remove some intake components to get to them, but it shouldn't be too difficult.

Instead of replacing sensors, just swap them and see if the P0016 becomes a P0018 which would mean the sensor that is now on the driver side is bad.

If that fails, get the valve covers off so you can see the chains and spin the engine using the crank bolt so you can see if the timing marks line up.

Download the FSM from the sticky on here and use that to see what needs to come off and how the chain should line up.
 
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