phattyduck
Elite Member
Bellhousing bolt technique (on my 2WD auto, but you get the idea):
Yes, this all the way behind the trans/TC...
-Charlie
Yes, this all the way behind the trans/TC...
-Charlie
Clutch burn
- Thread starter Previologist
- Start date
Previologist
Member
Yah, I will start collecting everything I need since it will be a couple months before I can even start. Was gonna get the kit first but the HF tranny jack has a coupon for $25 off that is only good for a couple more days so I'll get that. Will order the kit so it arrives when I get back in town in April.
Since this is a 2 day job, I should be able to get it done in 20. I generally multiply time estimates by 10 to reflect my general ineptitude
Since this is a 2 day job, I should be able to get it done in 20. I generally multiply time estimates by 10 to reflect my general ineptitude
_Ace_
Member
Another option to consider would be to hire a mobile mechanic to either do the entire job or to help you do it. If he was assisting or leading as a team it might be cheaper than having him do all the work.
Being familiar with the 3rd gen T4R would be a big bonus.
You could check Craigslist for mobile mechanics.
Being familiar with the 3rd gen T4R would be a big bonus.
You could check Craigslist for mobile mechanics.
Previologist
Member
If I start it, I'll get it done eventually. But I won't enjoy it and I will complain a lot. :sorry:
brillo_76
Elite Member
Previologist
Member
I picked up the tranny jack and then finished watching the Timmy Part 1 tutorial. Ooops. What I thought would be a difficult, unpleasant job now looks like it will be miserable and nearly impossible. I don't have anyone to help me. I will have to revise my time estimate from 3 weeks to 3 months. I also have 3 months to change my mind and get a refund on the jack.
One thing brought up in the video that I hadn't considered was a possible bell housing chock full of asbestos dust. Since I have a 97, I started doing some research on when Toyota stopped using asbestos in clutches.
I found this document, stating they stopped in 1993, but being a "show me the proof" kind of guy and they don't cite their source I won't bet my life on an unsupported statement. http://chess-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/what-is-in-those-brakes-asbestos.pdf
But it was encouraging. I then found Just a moment...
which states that Japanese automakers continued to use asbestos in some parts (but not clutches) even after 1996, which also suggests clutches were non-asbestos by 1996 or earlier.
So all of this is highly suggestive that my clutch is non-asbestos, but still leaves some doubt in my mind. Obviously I would make sure to be careful about dust either way, but I'd rather go into it (if I don't chicken out) knowing with 100% certainty whether I'm dealing with a carcinogen or not. I have confirmed that this is the original clutch, lasted 308,000 miles.
One thing brought up in the video that I hadn't considered was a possible bell housing chock full of asbestos dust. Since I have a 97, I started doing some research on when Toyota stopped using asbestos in clutches.
I found this document, stating they stopped in 1993, but being a "show me the proof" kind of guy and they don't cite their source I won't bet my life on an unsupported statement. http://chess-safety.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/what-is-in-those-brakes-asbestos.pdf
But it was encouraging. I then found Just a moment...
which states that Japanese automakers continued to use asbestos in some parts (but not clutches) even after 1996, which also suggests clutches were non-asbestos by 1996 or earlier.
So all of this is highly suggestive that my clutch is non-asbestos, but still leaves some doubt in my mind. Obviously I would make sure to be careful about dust either way, but I'd rather go into it (if I don't chicken out) knowing with 100% certainty whether I'm dealing with a carcinogen or not. I have confirmed that this is the original clutch, lasted 308,000 miles.
phattyduck
Elite Member
Asbestos is a non-issue.
With 1 person, tools, leverage and patience are your friend. Consider removing the transfer case separately to lighten and even out the load on the trans jack.
-Charlie
I was going to mention that, but didn't want to complicate things.
It's a PITA to take the transfer case off in the car, but it's a PITA wrangling the trans and TC together.
Previologist
Member
Well, if its there it IS an issue. Even Toyota couldn't answer the question without googling up the same indefinite info I already knew.
I found a better idea, maybe. I've read some of the previous writeups and someone said you can just remove the mount and slide both back on the cross member with a (presumably 2nd) jack under the transfer case. https://www.toyota-4runner.org/2432632-post20.html
phattyduck
Elite Member
Clean with brake parts cleaner (liquid) instead of a blow gun. You are also only doing this once, not for a living...
Asbestos exposures of mechanics performing clutch service on motor vehicles - PubMed
-Charlie
Previologist
Member
Some research says no amount of exposure is safe, so I consider that an issue. A late friend of mine researched this sort of thing. EPA scientist’s work could improve mine safety | MinnPost
It's true that increased exposure increases the risk, but that doesn't mean less exposure is safe. After all, you only die once and you want to do it right.
Like I said though, I would treat it the dust the same whether it is or isn't asbestos, though I might choose to not do the job myself if I thought it was. Right now I think it probably isn't, but since I can't start the job until April anyway I will look into it some more. Aside from that, after the feedback here and the other threads I've read I am confident I can probably get the job done myself.
phattyduck
Elite Member
Great attitude - make someone else take the risk... because you are more important than the next guy. (I hope that you understand how that statement can be taken)
There is risk everywhere and the personal growth of learning a new skill is probably worth any miniscule health risk.
-Charlie
Previologist
Member
Good grief, take your problems elsewhere.
brillo_76
Elite Member
Oh boy.. easy folks.. As per google by 1993 Toyota eliminated asbestos....
"Does Toyota use asbestos?
By 1993, Toyota had all asbestos-free brakes and clutches. Asbestos still showed up in a few specialty gaskets – those were removed in 2005. The American manufacturers aren't quite as forthcoming about asbestos use. And there are still quite a few manufacturers of asbestos brakes and clutches in China and India."
Just so readers know down the road. I not interested into getting into debates or discussions on dust. I just wanted to point out its not in the oem materials anymore.
"Does Toyota use asbestos?
By 1993, Toyota had all asbestos-free brakes and clutches. Asbestos still showed up in a few specialty gaskets – those were removed in 2005. The American manufacturers aren't quite as forthcoming about asbestos use. And there are still quite a few manufacturers of asbestos brakes and clutches in China and India."
Just so readers know down the road. I not interested into getting into debates or discussions on dust. I just wanted to point out its not in the oem materials anymore.
Devbot
New member
If the chance of potentially being exposed to a tiny amount of asbestos is a top level concern for you, then perhaps being around cars is not your thing. Engine oil, gear oil, tranny fluid, gasoline, exhaust fumes, brake dust, all forms of grease, blackened carbon, brake clean, etc are all carcinogenic as well - and arguably pose a larger threat with how prevalent they are and how quickly the skin absorbs them. Just some food for thought :shrug:
If you're truly that concerned, wear some gauntlets and a respirator. You'll survive
If you're truly that concerned, wear some gauntlets and a respirator. You'll survive
Pyral
Member
People over react to asbestos, they think it's like mustard gas that will immediately kill you with cancer. It's not, it takes repeated exposures and you wont know for many years.
If it really scares you, buy a P100 respirator and goggles, shouldn't cost more than $25 and it will stop you from breathing asbestos.
Toyota (accidently) made 27000 vehicles with asbestos between 1996 and 2005, and the parts weren't the clutch. It also says they had completely ended use of asbestos in 1996 (apart from those vehicles). Since the 3rd gen was new in '96, Toyota designed it to not use asbestos.
If it really scares you, buy a P100 respirator and goggles, shouldn't cost more than $25 and it will stop you from breathing asbestos.
Toyota (accidently) made 27000 vehicles with asbestos between 1996 and 2005, and the parts weren't the clutch. It also says they had completely ended use of asbestos in 1996 (apart from those vehicles). Since the 3rd gen was new in '96, Toyota designed it to not use asbestos.
Previologist
Member
Well this thread has served its purpose so I don't mind if it devolves into nitpicking about asbestos. But I'm an evidence freak, and a statement pulled up by Google (which I already posted, btw) that they stopped in 1993 is just not authoritative. I also posted that they were using asbestos in non-friction parts after they had supposedly stopped.
The truth of when they actually stopped using asbestos in OEM clutches (its still used in some aftermarket parts) is hard t pin down. Here's another unauthoritative statement from the web:
Auto Mechanic Asbestos Exposure - The Lanier Law Firm
According to the Federal Register and the EPA, automotive chrysotile asbestos-containing disc and drum brakes were common until 2000...
The EPA banned asbestos products in automotive parts in 1989, but this was overturned in 1991, allowing products to be used in automotive parts again. In 2010, a Freedonia report revealed that California and Washington passed legislation requiring brake pads to have no more than 0.1% asbestos by January 1, 2015.
This was important because from 1996 through 2006, asbestos-containing brake imports had increased 83 percent. (so why not clutches?)
According to the EPA, asbestos-containing clutches were phased out by 2000. Manufacturers had already begun using alternate materials in the 1980s.
Whoa, 2000? That's long after they were supposedly phased out. So the deeper I look, the murkier it gets. Last but not least, even Toyota Corporate wasn't able to give me a definite answer.
Sparky 97Runner
New member
The purpose of this thread was to help you decide what to do about your bad clutch and after skimming through three pages of threads it looks like you've received some pretty good advice. No one here will fault you for backing out and moving on for lack of tools, financial means, asbestos, motivation or anything else. But if you want to tackle the project we're here to help.
Previologist
Member
I intend to tackle the project in April. I will start another thread for that when I do. In the meantime I just became curious about the asbestos question because the information out there is so indefinite and conflicting. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like more definitive answers on whether they are dealing with a deadly carcinogen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know that aftermarket brakes and clutches might still contain asbestos. People down under might not know that asbestos wasn't regulated in automotive parts until this century, long after its use was (supposedly) stopped in the US.
brillo_76
Elite Member
Ok.. So what HAVC guys do when they find it on the heating and AC systems? They keep it wet with water as the only the dust is harmful.
So you can use brake cleaner to liquefy the dust. So it no longer harmful, Or water. I have never heard of any mechanic or anyone concerned about the dust of brake shoes or clutches. They just wet the dust down to make safe.
So you can use brake cleaner to liquefy the dust. So it no longer harmful, Or water. I have never heard of any mechanic or anyone concerned about the dust of brake shoes or clutches. They just wet the dust down to make safe.
