Clutch pedal being weird

Difflock

New member
So I drove one of my buddies runners, and noticed my clutch pedal is messed up and from what I hear its a common problem. I took out the master cylinder and it "seemed fine, replaced all the fluid and bled it through. To no avail. My clutch still engages super high and is spongy, doesnt return all the way but work just fine for now. The torsion spring is a little worn and seems like its moving quite a bit. I did adjust the pedal almost all the way out, I assume I need to adjust my clutch and thats why it engages really high but idk what gives. My buddies clutch is stock and it feels like im driving a new honda civic. And ideas?


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Different pressure plates can yield different clutch behavior- as well as pedal feel.
With a brand new Aisin clutch, pressure plate, master and slave- my clutch works and feels awesome. I took the stupid squeaking torsion spring out and never looked back. I didn't add any linear spring either- it returns all the way to the top on its own. I did fine-tune the engagement with the push-rod adjustment.
Do both rigs have the same engines? The 4-cyl "trucks" had a different clutch pedal, and might change how it feels. I've never felt the 4-cyl pedal, so I can't give any personal experience on that.
 
Different pressure plates can yield different clutch behavior- as well as pedal feel.
With a brand new Aisin clutch, pressure plate, master and slave- my clutch works and feels awesome. I took the stupid squeaking torsion spring out and never looked back. I didn't add any linear spring either- it returns all the way to the top on its own. I did fine-tune the engagement with the push-rod adjustment.
Do both rigs have the same engines? The 4-cyl "trucks" had a different clutch pedal, and might change how it feels. I've never felt the 4-cyl pedal, so I can't give any personal experience on that.



Same engine yes, Mine has a new clutch in it too though, id assume its the cylinders but idk


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Ya I drove another member's 4runner and it felt like a different car .. which it was LOL but it felt like a sports car in comparison to mine.
 
it felt like a different car .. which it was LOL
[emoji23] Wow that was funny.
Honestly, I think every manual vehicle I drive has it's own unique feel- even when comparing two of the same chassis/drivetrains. I've had two Mazda B2000 pickups, two 2nd gen 4Runners, 1st gen 4Runner, mk2 GLI, two mk3 Jettas, mk4 Jetta, IS300(super squishy/numb feel), 335i(best car ever), now the '01 4Runner- they all have unique clutch feels. Of course, I'm more comparing my mk4 Jetta to my buddy's mk4 Jetta, R32s, etc.
You said your clutch is new- which clutch did you put in?
I would be more worried about those Detroit Axle LBJs than clutch feels [emoji848][emoji51]
 
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[emoji23] Wow that was funny.
Honestly, I think every manual vehicle I drive has it's own unique feel- even when comparing two of the same chassis/drivetrains. I've had two Mazda B2000 pickups, two 2nd gen 4Runners, 1st gen 4Runner, mk2 GLI, two mk3 Jettas, mk4 Jetta, IS300(super squishy/numb feel), 335i(best car ever), now the '01 4Runner- they all have unique clutch feels. Of course, I'm more comparing my mk4 Jetta to my buddy's mk4 Jetta, R32s, etc.
You said your clutch is new- which clutch did you put in?
I would be more worried about those Detroit Axle LBJs than clutch feels [emoji848][emoji51]



Hahahaha the old detriot LBJs are holding up quite well so far, got 10k ish outta them so far. Im pretty sure it was the OEM clutch, cannot recall tbh. I suppose whatever Nappa had in stock at the time, Couldn't tell yah. But the issue followed through to the new clutch. Idk maybe im just being a worry wart


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It's possible.
When I bled mine, I had the pedal held to the floor, and just sucked on a long tube hooked to the bleeder until I had no bubbles. Pretty quick, easy, one-man job, and worked great. I started with a completely empty system, so that made it super easy too. TBH, there weren't really even bubbles- I just sucked till I got fluid, and then I was good to go [emoji12][emoji1598]
 
I just ordered a new master cylinder, ill wait till that comes then update how she goes. I suspect thats the issue


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i had a similar issue for about 6 months. I adjusted the linkage from the pedal to the master cylinder but it still didn't seem right. Finally the clutch "failed" and I had to drive home without a clutch. Turns out the clutch fork snapped in half. So for a while the fork was bent preventing it from keeping pressure on the slave cylinder. Could be your issue?
 
i had a similar issue for about 6 months. I adjusted the linkage from the pedal to the master cylinder but it still didn't seem right. Finally the clutch "failed" and I had to drive home without a clutch. Turns out the clutch fork snapped in half. So for a while the fork was bent preventing it from keeping pressure on the slave cylinder. Could be your issue?



Mmmmmm im highly doubtful, bit thats a good thought, if all else fails ill look into that. I really dont feel like having to do that though lmao sounds like doing that is not so fun


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I have a similar problem which brought me here for diagnosis helping.



One critical thing you mentioned in the original post was that the clutch was engaging super late in the pedal movement. Is that correct?



If that is the case, that would have nothing to do with the master cylinder if the fluid is at the correct level. Am I right?



Another thing you mentioned is that your torsion spring is worn, but that will only affect the pedal return and not so much when the clutch engages where you said it engages super high on the pedal uplift swing.



The master cylinder leaking would cause a different issue I would think which is a change in pressure over time (releasing pressure as it leaks as you hold the pressure steady on the pedal).



So I would doubt that there is any indication of a master cylinder problem in your description but I'll let others correct me if that's not logical.



So what is logical?



Two things only for me to suggest to you, which are the same things I'm looking at for me.



Maybe the clutch plate is worn?

Maybe the pedal is out of adjustment?



I doubt the pedal suddenly went out of adjustment but it could be adjusted to compensate for clutch plate wear, I think. Can it? (I haven't looked myself yet.)



My one question for everyone which is related to what you are experiencing is if the clutch plate is engaging super late, then how do we test whether the clutch plate is worn?



Is there a test for a worn clutch if it's not slipping in low gear on a steep hill?



My clutch hasn't slipped since I put it in, id assume if your clutch is wearing out, getting it to stay engaged would be the problem, not having issues getting disengaged. I have adjusted the pedal to no avail. The pedal feels very spongy, like as if theres not enough pressure in the system, which is not the case because I bled it for almost an hour. My theory is that the plunger in the master or slave is leaking a little bit just enough to hold pressure to work the clutch? Not sure. And yes the spring does doesnt affect the return of the pedal? Is it supposed to? Why have a spring at all then?


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I should have been more specific. It feels exactly like theres a load of air in the system, the clutch for the most part works fine, sometimes I have to pull the pedal back up with my foot in order to get build enough pressure in the system to disengage the clutch. As far as I know there is no leaks in the system, new fluid, just bled it, its a newer clutch, pedal is adjusted, I have a new slave and master on the way. Im hoping thats the issue


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same issue with late up-lift grab. I've had my 97' standard for 3 years and had to replace the mastercylinder after the first six months because the shaft connected to the plunger snapped!!

Yeah, i was driving and made it home with some fancy pedal work with my bare feet. No prior leaks and no current leaks. It was engaging late prior to the MC replacement and has been for the 2 1/2 years since. Recently, i am noticing
slight vibration and slipping when starting out from a stop but has never slipped out of gear yet.

maybe all those years of late engaging are a sign of a worn plate. No idea of services on the clutch prior to my ownership, which sucks.
 
Now that I think of it, I did have top up my fluid every 3 months ish. Itd go to low. So I may have a little leak somewhere, didn't notice anything visually on the slave or the master, is that line connected straight to the slave? Could it be leaking anywhere else?


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Now that I think of it, I did have top up my fluid every 3 months ish. Itd go to low. So I may have a little leak somewhere, didn't notice anything visually on the slave or the master, is that line connected straight to the slave? Could it be leaking anywhere else?


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it is a hard line straight from the master to the slave, might go to rubber where it enters, can't remember. There is a bleeder on the slave. pretty sure that is it, turns mechanical after that.
 
Maybe I didn't describe it right but for me, it's engaging late as in super high in the pedal up swing. To me, that indicates a "worn" something.



If it's a worn clutch, I would expect it to slip when I'm in low gear going up a steep hill - but it actually doesn't slip in my tests. It just engages super late in the pedal up swing (like almost at the very end when I take my foot off the pedal).





You're ahead of me because I haven't even looked up yet where the clutch adjustment is!







Bleeding will only get rid of air, as far as I know. If there was a lot of air, it would compress, and that would make the pedal spongy. So bleeding is a good idea, but air in the lines would be unlikely unless there is a leak. If there is a leak, then the hydraulic fluid level "should" be low (if the leak is big enough). Correct me if I'm wrong.





There must be a test for leaky master cylinders and leaky slave cylinders. I would think the first test is the fluid level. The second test is a visual inspection for leaks (especially on the slave cylinder).



I would guess a third test is to hold the pedal down for a time period and see if the pressure holds. But I don't know HOW to do that test so I'm just thinking out loud so don't follow me down the rabbit hole on how to test for a leaky master cylinder or slave cylinder.



BTW, if you really suspect a leaky "cylinder" how did you differentiate between the Master and the Slave? How can you tell the difference?







The clutch pedal return spring is almost certainly worn since they all go bad. But no matter what you use for a return spring, I don't think the return spring can affect when in the return cycle the clutch engages.



That is, the return spring can affect how the pedal feels (in both directions) but it won't affect where the clutch engages in the return swing of the pedal.



If your clutch disc is engaging super high in the pedal return cycle (as is mine), then I can't think that the return spring (even though it's almost certainly worn) will change that.



As far as I know theres no way to test them other than visually apart from pulling them off and pressurizing them each separately, the adjustment for the pedal is just behind the pedal, a rod and jam nut on the plunger for the master cylinder just loosen the jam nut and move it wherever you like. It will only go so much though


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Is a clutch in a hydro system adjustable? Anyone have a write up for that? V6 sr5


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