Colorado/Utah Trip - Snow Chains??

[bluecollarjock]

Hi Guys (and Gals),
This is probably very ignorant sounding but I gotta ask, for those of you in Colorado do you use snow chains during the winter?

I grew up in NE Ohio and Western PA, tons of snow and we never used snow chains. I went to a few years undergrad in Colorado, then upstate NY, both very heavy snow areas and I never recall anyone using snow chains. Even when we went skiiing and camping in Colorado I recall us in a buddy's stock Pathfinder, or stock Jeep Wranglers, going up mountain trails and ski towns with no issues. I went to grad school in CT, heavy snow but no one ever used chains....

Now I live in LA, going on a road trip to a retreat next month in Snowmass Colorado (too expensive to fly into Denver and then Aspen or some other tiny airport). Every time I mention it to anyone in LA, the first thing they blurt out is "do you have snow chains?!" plus a shovel, survival gear, emergency kits etc. Is this just California paranoia for those who never grew up driving in the snow that when they go to Big Bear or Mammoth to ski they use snow chains and prepare for what they worry is slipping off the road and dying in the wilderness? Maybe they do not plow well in California and the roads are worse off?

Please let me know and I will research now what prep to prepare best for the trip. I have a bone stock '16 and my only possible desire was beefing up the lighting for the trip, but I am not ready for a front bumper to mount them on nor do I recall any functional push bar/pre-runner bumper doo-dads last time I searched the threads on here that were appealing to me for a good light mount. So I was just gonna pack my bags for the retreat, dial in the GPS on the phone and start driving...hoping the stock Nitto's on the TRDs do ok in the snow.

Trip looks pretty simple, LA to Vegas, thru Utah and stay on I-15N/I 70 E most of the way.

Any suggestions on a place to stop halfway in Utah on that route to get a hotel I am all ears. It has always been on my mind that eventually I will get back to Colorado (as I have mentioned in older threads). Maybe 5 more years in LA and then head to the mountains. Eventually need a more gun friendly, hunter friendly, easy access to wheeling area that I can actually afford a home as anywhere near me in LA you gotta have millions, $500k will get you a fixer upper in the hood.

Thanks

 

[jimster716]

I grew up in Erie, PA.
One thing about the west especially in CA (I've been in LA since 1992), they don't salt the roads for environmental reasons. Therefore, roads in the west will get icier at a higher temp.

With off-road tires and 4WD, I have never had the need for chains (California Highway Patrol will stop vehicles in Mammoth, Big Bear and Mt. High and if you have 4WD and "snow tires" i.e., off-road tires, they'll let you through or they'll close the roads for everyone).

If you're using the stock craptastic Dueler tires, you will need chains (rear axle only).

 

[adaml]

I'm not sure why people bother to post this type of stuff. The opinions are going to vary wildly and the answer is really going to be so dependent on a number of variables that nobody will really be able to answer it anyways.

At the end of the day, the car is capable. However, it's going to depend on what tires you have, how much tread is on them, how much snow you're driving into, how deep the snow is, how many other people have driven on it, what the temperature is, ... the list just goes on.

All I can say is that some national parks (if you plan on visiting any) may require you to at least have snow chains (or cables or some other approved device in your car). I also know some passes through CA required you to carry similar devices under certain conditions. Both of these just mean you're required by law, when the weather is bad enough, to have those chains with you but you may not have to equip them. Those roads may not have those conditions when you travel but they may. I also dont know what other states are like.

I do know that compared to your bone stock 2016 4Runner, a set of chains isn't even a drop in the proverbial bucket.

 

[bofa]

I've yet to use them but they can be required on certain roads in CO depending on conditions. They arent terribly expensive so having a set and not needing them is better than the alternative.

A survival/emergency bag is always a good idea.

 

[Jetboy]

I live in Utah. Moved from Montana. I used to own a snow plow company. I don't own a set of chains. I have in the past and used them very infrequently. Never have I been on any highway that required them on a 4x4 vehicle. You're better off to buy an air compressor so you can lower the pressure in your tires. There might be some situation off road where chains work better than low pressure, but in my experience I have never found such a situation. I have compared - side by side - two toyota pickups with he same size tires, one with chains on all 4 tires (mine) and one with low tire pressure. Low tire pressure was better all around.That convinced me ultimately that tire chains are a waste of time and weight. If the gov. requires it for some road - you may not have a choice.

- of course that applies to vehicles with tires that can be aired down. A heavy truck has a 15 degree angle bead seat without any bead lip so they can't air down much at all or the tires come off (xx.5 wheels are this way - so 16.5, 22.5, etc). For those trucks or vehicles with low profile tires like cars, land rovers, etc, maybe tire chains are worth having.

 

[desertred]

Les Schwab used to have a program where you could buy snow chains and return them for a full refund, if they were never used. That would give you the flexibility to comply with any "carry chain" laws during your trip and return your chains upon your return.

 

[4Regrets]

I currently live in Utah, in one of the snowiest places in the state (Brighton, elevation 8750'), and regularly drive to the Tetons, Steamboat Springs, Aspen/Snowmass and Crested Butte areas during the winter.

I carry a set of self-tensioning chains to use as a recovery aid if I was to get stuck somewhere, but with 4WD and good tires, I haven't encountered road conditions that would require driving any distance with chains on. If it's that bad I'm staying put or the roads are closed.

For winter driving in the mountain west, I carry a few basic supplies, nothing crazy.

2 self-tensioning tire chains

30 pounds non-clumping kitty litter as a traction aid

Large blade D grip shovel. I prefer a polypropylene one like this :https://www.amazon.com/TOOLS-P-6982G-Tuffy-Scoop-Shovel/dp/B000DEN564. I also carry 2 ice scrapers, they always seem to break at inopportune times.

Extra gloves, heavy winter boots and a headlamp

0 degree F sleeping bag

Extra gallon of washer fluid and spare wiper blade(s)

Food and water/basic first aid kit

Fire starting supplies and flares

Hi visibility orange/reflective vest, as seen on road crews. If I'm working on my car on the side of the road, especially in bad weather, I want to be as visible as possible.

 

[rb92673]

I did a trip from SoCal to Tahoe over Thanksgiving break. I bought a set of cable chains for emergencies. I never used them, but I am still glad I have them.

It snowed a few times while we were in Tahoe, so we would just wait until all the snow plows were done cleaning the roads and went about our business. It didn't take long. I have to imagine the snow plows in UT and CO are just as efficient, especially on the major highways. We also took that time to go do some donuts in an empty parking lot to figure out how the 4Runner works in the Snow. =)

Even on the stock 20" Bridgestones I drove right by someone who was spinning the wheels on their FWD car with chains.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

So here is the deal: Under certain circumstances, on certain roads (I70 mainly) you may be required to have chains. It's a new law. The general consensus here is that if the new chain law is in effect, you should not be out there. During these conditions, many of the main highways will turn into parking lots after unprepared people get stuck or cause an accident. This is why the new rule is in place. That being said, you could always pick up a pair just to be safe. You never know when you may need them and they are not that expensive.

 

[Vettethret]

Hi Guys (and Gals),
This is probably very ignorant sounding but I gotta ask, for those of you in Colorado do you use snow chains during the winter?

I grew up in NE Ohio and Western PA, tons of snow and we never used snow chains. I went to a few years undergrad in Colorado, then upstate NY, both very heavy snow areas and I never recall anyone using snow chains. Even when we went skiiing and camping in Colorado I recall us in a buddy's stock Pathfinder, or stock Jeep Wranglers, going up mountain trails and ski towns with no issues. I went to grad school in CT, heavy snow but no one ever used chains....

Now I live in LA, going on a road trip to a retreat next month in Snowmass Colorado (too expensive to fly into Denver and then Aspen or some other tiny airport). Every time I mention it to anyone in LA, the first thing they blurt out is "do you have snow chains?!" plus a shovel, survival gear, emergency kits etc. Is this just California paranoia for those who never grew up driving in the snow that when they go to Big Bear or Mammoth to ski they use snow chains and prepare for what they worry is slipping off the road and dying in the wilderness? Maybe they do not plow well in California and the roads are worse off?

Please let me know and I will research now what prep to prepare best for the trip. I have a bone stock '16 and my only possible desire was beefing up the lighting for the trip, but I am not ready for a front bumper to mount them on nor do I recall any functional push bar/pre-runner bumper doo-dads last time I searched the threads on here that were appealing to me for a good light mount. So I was just gonna pack my bags for the retreat, dial in the GPS on the phone and start driving...hoping the stock Nitto's on the TRDs do ok in the snow.

Trip looks pretty simple, LA to Vegas, thru Utah and stay on I-15N/I 70 E most of the way.

Any suggestions on a place to stop halfway in Utah on that route to get a hotel I am all ears. It has always been on my mind that eventually I will get back to Colorado (as I have mentioned in older threads). Maybe 5 more years in LA and then head to the mountains. Eventually need a more gun friendly, hunter friendly, easy access to wheeling area that I can actually afford a home as anywhere near me in LA you gotta have millions, $500k will get you a fixer upper in the hood.

Thanks

I just came back last week from Vail/Breckenridge in CO. They actually had signs on the side of the road saying it was a $500 fine if you DIDN'T have snow chains on when the signs lights were flashing, kind of surprised me. So the answer to your question is you better have them with you at a minimum or you could risk a bid fine.

 

[FlightMedic303]

From CDOT website:

"Traction Law (Code 15)
During an active Traction Law, also known as a Code 15, motorists will need to have either snow tires, tires with the
mud/snow (M+S) designation, or a four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicle — all tires must have a minimum one-eighth inch tread. You can also install chains or an alternative traction device (like AutoSock) to be in compliance with the law if your tires aren't adequate.

Find out if your tires meet the minimum one-eighth inch tread requirement by taking the Quarter Test.

Passenger Vehicle Chain Law (Code 16)
During severe winter storms, CDOT will implement a Passenger Vehicle Chain Law, also known as a Code 16 — this is the final safety measure before the highway is closed. During a Passenger Vehicle Chain Law, every vehicle on the roadway is required to have chains or an alternative traction device (like AutoSock).

Fines
Motorists driving with inadequate equipment during a Passenger Vehicle Traction or Chain Law could be fined more than $130.

If a motorist blocks the roadway because they have inadequate equipment during a Passenger Vehicle Traction or Chain Law, they could be fined more than $650."

 

[bluecollarjock]

Thanks everyone for the immediate responses. Like I said it could sound ignorant and I realize opinions will vary....just growing up and living in heavy snow areas most of my life never needing snow chains, then getting reactions from anyone in my Los Angeles beach town about snow chains like its critical for driving in the snow made me really curious.

I do not have Duelers I have a TRD so have the Nittos, only 5k miles on them so plenty of tread.

PA salt = destroys vehicles! I bought my dad's last two trucks in the South and drove them up to Pittsburgh, and was shopping for Tacomas and 4runners used out here in SoCa to drive one back for him sometime this year.

Maybe I will look into a set of snow chains and a compressor just to keep in back. Doubt I will be on any gnarly roads as I am gonna he highway driving right to Snowmass. Not sure if the remaining drive to the monastery is bad but if old monks and such can drive up there can't be too bad hah.

EDIT: wow in the time I took to type my response and field a phone call, there have been many more responses! Thanks everyone. Looks like I will grab a pair for the rear wheels just to be safe, in case I do get stuck, or perhaps someone wants to fine me if I do not have them with me. Also thanks for the heads up on what you regularly carry as it was not even crossing my mind about ice scrapers and such, back "home" and other places I've lived those things are standard to be kept in the truck/Jeep/SUV, but here I may actually have to shop around before I leave since its 70 degrees and sunny year round. All my good winter hunting clothes, boots, and sleeping bags are back in Pittsburgh since I fly home often to go hunting with my dad in PA and a yearly bear hunting trip to Canada where its snowing even in May past few years we are so far north. But I will throw some clothes, blankets, etc. Glad I posted up as these things not crossing my mind initially...

 

[Powder_Hound]

I just came back last week from Vail/Breckenridge in CO. They actually had signs on the side of the road saying it was a $500 fine if you DIDN'T have snow chains on when the signs lights were flashing, kind of surprised me. So the answer to your question is you better have them with you at a minimum or you could risk a bid fine.

I'm guessing this was for Commercial Rigs as I don't think CDOT has issued a code 16 this year!

You'll be good to go with 4WD and good tires. I've lived in CO for almost 40 years and I've never needed, was required to use, or wanted to use chains.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So here is the deal: Under certain circumstances, on certain roads (I70 mainly) you may be required to have chains. It's a new law. The general consensus here is that if the new chain law is in effect, you should not be out there. During these conditions, many of the main highways will turn into parking lots after unprepared people get stuck or cause an accident. This is why the new rule is in place. That being said, you could always pick up a pair just to be safe. You never know when you may need them and they are not that expensive.

That right there in bold. ^^^

As far as hotels in Utah, Green River is a nice place to stop and the room rates are reasonable.

I stayed at the Comfort Inn last trip to Idaho and it was clean and comfy.

There's a little hole in the wall in Green River called Rays Tavern that is a great place to get a burger and a beer after a long day on the road. It's the most popular with the locals and I always say "Eat where the locals eat".

Oh yeah, when you see signs that say "No Services next XXX miles". They mean it. And there are some great stretches of highway where the speed limit is 80. You can make some good time through the more desolate areas. I did 95 on those stretches with my Passport 8500 keeping sentinel.

 

[RonJR]

Your likelihood of seeing a code 16 and/or needing chains coming from the west to Snowmass is extremely low. The problematic area of I70 is between the foothills west of Denver on the east and Vail on the west, primarily due to two 10,000+ foot passes and the extremely heavy weekend ski traffic. If you stay west of Glenwood Springs, I can't imagine needing chains. The road up to Snowmass might be snowpacked, but with the lighter traffic 4wd and good tires will be more than adequate.

If you time your travel to be off the weekends and avoid the heavy ski traffic, you likely would never see a code 16 on any section of I70 through Colorado. And you want to do that anyway. On an evening like today (the end of MLK weekend), it can easily take 6 hours to travel what would normally take two.

 

[proimion]

There is no "chain law" in Colorado. It is a "traction law." Someone posted the actual text of the law above. With the right tires and 4WD/AWD you do not need chains to comply with the law. I'm on I-70 in ski country several times a month. The biggest problem is too many cars. One idiot is all it takes to shut the thing down for hours. This is especially true East of Vail Pass down to Denver. Do whatever you can to avoid peak traffic hours. Check out goI70.com and cotrip.org. I'm just amazed at how many people get on that highway when it is closed or stopped ahead. Then they get stuck with no way to exit for hours. Don't be like those idiots!

I've never needed chains except in FWD cars in deep snow or very slick late spring snow. Nevertheless, I still carry something in all my vehicles in case I get stuck.

Instead of cables, you might consider getting an Autosock. They are much easier to use and take up much less space. Or get some TracGrabbers. Those are only good for getting out of a jam (can't be used for miles like Autosock or cables). But the nice thing about TracGrabbers is you can use them for any kind of recovery later (ditches, mud, etc).

 

[RonJR]

There is no "chain law" in Colorado. It is a "traction law." Someone posted the actual text of the law above. With the right tires and 4WD/AWD you do not need chains to comply with the law. I'm on I-70 in ski country several times a month. The biggest problem is too many cars. One idiot is all it takes to shut the thing down for hours. This is especially true East of Vail Pass down to Denver. Do whatever you can to avoid peak traffic hours. Check out goI70.com and cotrip.org. I'm just amazed at how many people get on that highway when it is closed or stopped ahead. Then they get stuck with no way to exit for hours. Don't be like those idiots!

I've never needed chains except in FWD cars in deep snow or very slick late spring snow. Nevertheless, I still carry something in all my vehicles in case I get stuck.

Instead of cables, you might consider getting an Autosock. They are much easier to use and take up much less space. Or get some TracGrabbers. Those are only good for getting out of a jam (can't be used for miles like Autosock or cables). But the nice thing about TracGrabbers is you can use them for any kind of recovery later (ditches, mud, etc).

You need to go back and re-read the posted text of the law in its entirety. As of 2015 (or thereabouts) there is a "chain" law; it's what others have referred to as a "Code 16". It is seldom invoked, but if it is, no amount of 4wd and/or snow tires will satisfy the requirements of the law, on any vehicle. Code 16 requires chains or Autosocks, period.

This law is relatively new, as stated above, so experiences based on the last 25 years of traveling in Colorado are not necessarily valid. To put it frankly, CDOT is at its wit's end trying to figure out how to keep weekend ski traffic moving between Denver and Vail when the weather is bad, so you can expect more and more restrictive rules to help make that possible. Already I've noticed far more weather related highway closures on I70 the past two winters than I ever remember 5-10 years ago. It's only going to get worse, because the highway is far over its capacity.

 

[proimion]

I sit corrected! Code 16 does require chains or socks. I can't remember when I saw that implemented for passenger vehicles (although code 15 for "traction" is frequent). I see code 16 all the time for commercial.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Your likelihood of seeing a code 16 and/or needing chains coming from the west to Snowmass is extremely low. The problematic area of I70 is between the foothills west of Denver on the east and Vail on the west, primarily due to two 10,000+ foot passes and the extremely heavy weekend ski traffic. If you stay west of Glenwood Springs, I can't imagine needing chains. The road up to Snowmass might be snowpacked, but with the lighter traffic 4wd and good tires will be more than adequate.

If you time your travel to be off the weekends and avoid the heavy ski traffic, you likely would never see a code 16 on any section of I70 through Colorado. And you want to do that anyway. On an evening like today (the end of MLK weekend), it can easily take 6 hours to travel what would normally take two.

^^^ Well spoken. I would rather stick two dull #2 pencils in each of my eyeballs than deal with I-70 on a weekend. It is a cluster**** of biblical proportions.

Problem is (native observing here) we have so many people who have moved to Colorado over the last 20 years that have ZERO clue how to drive on adverse roads that common sense flies out the window and all hell breaks loose. One or two idiots on I-70 can cause a world of pain in like 20 seconds. Worse, if this happens you are very limited as to options.

The simple premise of slow down and leave a big gap between you and the person ahead of you is lost on these people. They don't get it.

Think of I-70 westbound from the foothills to Vail as the mouth and I-70 eastbound from Vail to the foothills as the butthole. What goes in, has to come out. ;-)

 

[bluecollarjock]

Thanks for all of this input. Kinda a bummer that the retreat starts on a Tuesday, so it almost forces me to travel over the weekend. Looks like about a 13 hour drive (not counting any traffic jams I hit in SoCa leaving or weather in Utah or Colorado). I could leave so to travel Sunday to Green River (roughly 11 hours), and Monday the rest of the way...giving me wiggle room if there is any cluster *&% issues along the way to report on Tuesday (which typically these retreats start in the evening I have not gotten the final schedule yet).

I will look into the chains/socks and do some other prep along with being aware of the websites mentioned.

Well, if I ever do decide to move to Colorado I know where to post up and get information! You guys seem to be on top of it and lots of Colorado folks. I loved the Denver area when I was in school there 24 years ago at USAFA (yikes), but I've seen the prices climbing and climbing over the years as it gets more popular. I would love to find a place that was affordable, with good wheeling,camping, good shooting ranges, good hunting, but also some good sports performance gyms, mixed martial arts, and (hesitant to say this) some good yoga studios hah. Over the many years of powerlifting/olympic lifting and banging heads in combative sports, yoga has done my mind and body some good the past few years.